Final Fantasy general

Ya know actually Zmus was in the game all FFIV sine he was controlling Golbez....

He still fucking sucks and Golbez is way better. Ultimecia is just Zemus.

I kinda feel like Ultimecia is underrated. She's a very good lingering spectre type villain. Someone who's more of a plot device in the grand scheme of things, but who's intangible vibe permeates the game.

I mean Zemus brainwashed Golbez where as Ultimecia possessed Edea, there is a difference there.

If we're talking least developed and well written FF villains, Xande and the Cloud of Darkness from FF III take the take. Literally every other FF villain is more developed or better written.

Edited by M84 on Oct 20th 2019 at 11:40:21 PM

I do think Xande's backstory and motivation had potential at least. Unfortunately, in the end he's still pretty lame because he doesn't get enough focus. Getting totally shafted in spinoffs in favor of the Cloud of Darkness didn't help his case either. But if they had fleshed him out some more he could have been really memorable.

Edited by TommyFresh on Oct 20th 2019 at 9:34:17 AM

Seems a bit unfair to act like that's much of a criticism though. FFIII came out in 1990 for the NES, no one had particularly high expectations for the story and characterization to be deep and compelling. For that matter, while I get Xande having more potential than he got in execution is a common talking point for posters in this thread, I don't see how Xande and Cloud of Darkness are any more under-written than other early villains like Garland/Chaos and Zemus.

Probably because the potential was there for something more, whereas Garland, The Emperor, Zemus and COD are pretty much just evil for evil's sake without any pretenses otherwise.

XIV did its own take on Xande that decided he might as well destroy everything he made after getting bored.

Cloud of Darkness gets portrayed differently in Dissidia. Like she is inherently fascinated by the Void and has some weird moral standards. Like her dislike of using the Manikins and becoming fascinated by individuals.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Oct 20th 2019 at 9:57:38 AM

He wasn't bored so much as he was suffering Damaged Soul after being brought back to life from a cloning experiment.

Does mean they did do a different take with him, since we know the world was originally inhabited by a race of giant immortal Reality Warper

Speaking of XIV, Emet-Selch is the best written and one of the best developed FF villains save for maybe Delita (you know your villain's good when half the audience are convinced they're not one at all), and he's got some decent competition in that game alone, which is pretty wild considering we've only known about him about a year and some change.

Shame I can't say anything about him without significantly spoiling that game, but I know I'm not the only one to think this.

Edited by Hashil on Oct 20th 2019 at 12:53:36 PM

Even the villains preceding Xande and COD were interesting in their own right. Garland subverted expectations by being the Final Boss as well as the first boss. The Emperor enacted death and destruction on a level unheard of in videogames at that time and managed the incredible feat of taking over Hell. And in the GBA remake he even takes over Heaven too.

Edited by M84 on Oct 22nd 2019 at 3:18:46 AM

Also because of time travel, Garland seems to have not become evil as well.

The villains who were arguably less interesting and well developed than Xande and COD in later games were at least accompanied by more compelling antagonists to make up for it. Zemus wasn't all that interesting, but at least FF IV had Golbez. FF IX's Necron also showed up out of nowhere with even less buildup than COD, but he wasn't really the Big Bad anyway — that was Kuja.

I touched on it before, but I think that this thread keeps bringing up Xande and his backstory is evidence enough that he's a more interesting villain than Zemus of all characters. That fact that Zemus got to stand in the same room as Golbez for a couple seconds doesn't do anything for him if we're judging "villains" and not "the games based on their villains". Hell, Zemus isn't even the actual final boss of FFIV. He gets killed off in the cutscene before he even gets a chance to do anything on-screen, and the final boss is a vaguely defined manifestation of his hate. Even Cloud of Darkness and Necron are better villains than Zemus and Zeromus.

I mean Zemus has about as an interesting motivation as Xande's with the whole destroy humans so Lunarians can take the world thing.

What makes Xande worse is that his original backstory motivation has nothing to do with his characterization when you meet him. At that point he's just COD's slave and doesn't even care that he's going to die. This, from someone whose original motivation was a fear of dying.

Zemus at least manages to stay on point — he's so motivated by hatred that he is reborn into an embodiment of it.

Edited by M84 on Oct 21st 2019 at 4:17:31 PM

I think another issue is that Xande was badly mishandled to the point where when he finally appears in person, I need some convincing that the big guy who looks like Urien from Street Fighter actually IS Xande and not another of his henchmen.

Enemy design was kind of all over the place in FF III.

Zemus is like the Emperor what you see is what you get, except you never meet him, unlike Ulty's possession where she's in the driver's seat so what Edea says is Ulty's words

Zemus is more like all of Golbez's more asshole traits are amped up to 11... that and Zemus has he's entire character told to you by Fusoya with the implication that Zemus has gone insane from being stuck in stasis aware.

Xande has one of those backstories that makes you think he'd be one way, Then you kinda kill him with no fanfare cause the large Naked woman is the True final boss Xande is viewed as a case of missed potential seeing that Noah's reasoning is never truly explained

You can assume Noah's intent with his gifts but its never out right stated.

then again Noah might have just been a bad teacher who completely misread his students

I still think FF 8 has the best in-game reasoning for superhuman characters in the series. Like, I buy that the FF 8 gang can fight a godlike sorceress.

because of the G Fs. They're literally suffusing their bodies with vast storages of magic without having to consciously use any of it. They have earth magic making them more durable, haste magic giving them superhuman speed, healing magic giving them more health, gravity magic giving them stronger strikes. Fire magic flowing from their weapons.

Edited by GNinja on Oct 21st 2019 at 11:47:10 AM

Their stats without any GF junctioning has a bit of Reality Ensues as well. The stats of even a run of the mill soldier are superior to your party members' stats at any level without a GF.

Edited by M84 on Oct 21st 2019 at 7:49:11 PM

Indeed. Without G Fs the characters are otherwise normal kids with basic training..

Having someone special in your life can make a world of difference.

It's also sort of applicable to V where before getting the crystals' powers, the party are just ordinary people and all you can do is stab, punch and heal with items.