Copyright and Trademark Law

I'm not sure if I missed it, but as far as I can tell we don't have a general copyright and trademark law discussion thread, so I have created it.

This thread will be for discussing all subjects related to copyright and trademark law including but not limited to the legal protections works and trademarks have across the world, public domain, fair use, and legal disputes arising from trademark and copyright protections.

As I start this thread in January of 2024, the most significant news is that in the US the original version of Micky Mouse, which has become a symbol of excessive copyright protections, from 1928 has entered the public domain. This means anyone can incorporate the original version of the character into their works without any regard for permission, royalties, or fair use.

However it can't be used as a logo or in a way that might mislead a consumer into thinking that the work is produced by Disney since the trademark is still valid.

Edited by Falrinn on Jan 2nd 2024 at 1:33:18 AM

I've seen that there's already a survival horror game being made with Steamboat Willy as the monster to escape.

This kinda feels like the End of an Era. Who would have thought that Disney and Congress would ever let Mickey Mouse's copyright expire? It was something of a Memetic Badass of copyrights; "for the lifetime of Mickey Mouse."

It was bound to end at some point, because it's really hard to explain why it's so important to maintain copyright on stuff that almost no one is bothering to even try keeping in print or on stuff that's outright missing. Sure, Disney has everything they've made preserved, but Steamboat Willie is from an era where we're missing something like 80% of the stuff that was made for film. What do you do with that? The other element is just that since Disney maintains the trademark on Mickey (which doesn't have that time limit because maintaining a trademark just means keeping it in active use) the idea that they need to keep Steamboat Willie is absurd, especially since Disney's clearly moved on since 2005.

I imagine that it’d also be harder to extend this time, not just because justification is harder, but there’s more public knowledge of what Disney has been pulling and Congress is harder then ever to get to do anything.

If I had to guess, it was likely due to a number of factors.

Disney's power is significant, but it's not unlimited and may of simply reached it's limits. In addition the more polarized political environment means it's a lot harder to get much of anything passed, plus there's a much stronger pro-public domain lobby nowadays then there was the last time copyright was extended.

All of these factors add up to a situation where Disney decided that this wasn't a battle worth fighting.

The really sad part is that literally all anyone can think of to do when something enters the public domain is low-effort edginess. Free to do anything, and it's always worthless dross.

Its really because they really want a reaction from people because thats how they can sell the game

It'll take a little bit, but it'll get there. The horror stuff is just the absolute easiest angle to take.

Honestly I don't mind a bit of crassness at the start.

Over the years I suspect we'll get a more sincere takes on the new public domain characters, but those sorts of projects take time and care. Plus they might wait until more of a character's supporting cast becomes public domain before going forward.

But simply throwing together a portrayal that's built entirely on subverting the characters established brand in an over-the-top fashion takes considerably less time and care.

It's the torrid crossover of laziness, cashgrab controversy, and that weird obsession some people seem to have with trying to ruin anything enjoyable.

Most likely we’ll eventually see things like original Micky appearing as a side character in other works. Someone will also likely add him to a fighting game at some point, which could be cool.

I get a very strong impression that the low-effort edginess is essentially trying to bet on novelty to make their work sell better. That is to say, they know people wouldn't be otherwise interested.

For example, with something like Blood and Honey I'd criticize it mostly for being an uncreative use of Winnie the Pooh in a horror context.

The actual idea of a horror take on Pooh does have potential if done with real ambition. I would point to Among The Sleep as the example of what you'd want to emulate at least stylistically. It combines the storybook aesthetic with something actually creepy.

Mickey Mouse is specifically a character, though, that I think will be hard to capitalize on in the public domain for the following reasons:

• The character is primarily a symbol of Disney Corporation or the era of animation that produced him. To the extent that it's nearly impossible to really separate the two, even when using an expy.

• The character's already a Fountain of Expies.

• The character's specific brand signifiers aren't that important if that makes sense.

• Even subverting brand expectations for Mickey feels like a cliche.

For example, Bendy and The Ink Machine already is an effective horror take on subverting the expectations of Mickey Mouse imagery.

In fact, we even have an example of something similar using Mickey itself with Epic Mickey. A game that, while definitely pulling its punches, has genuine artistic ambitions, thoughtfully utilizes Mickey Mouse, and revolves considerably around subverting the stereotypical wholesomeness of the Mickey Mouse brand.

I'd actually say making the game Epic Mickey was trying to be is the best thing that you could do with the Mickey Mouse Public Domain, but you'd still have to wait a few decades for that to be possible as such a game necessarily has to engage to with the Mickey Brand on a holistic level.

That "holistic level" is actually the big problem for now because while Winnie and Mickey are entering public domain, it's only their original works. You'll have to wait a bit longer to get a lot of the things we associate with them to also associate with them.

That said, it is a battle they thought was worth trying to manipulate public opinion by making a cartoon of Steamboat Willie being copied millions of time and being a nuisance.

I feel like there's about a billion miles of difference between making a comedic cartoon that most people aren't going to take seriously and actively lobbying congress to effectively stop all entry into the public domain forever.

It's the difference between a punch and a nuclear weapon here.

As far as I can tell, it was a last attempt at manipulating public perception since their legal ways had run out.

x4 By this point, the rest of the original Pooh characters have joined the public domain. Tigger was the last holdout, and he was one of the additions this year.

Though obviously Disney-original additions like Gopher and Lumpy still have quite some time before that happens to them.

Edited by lbssb on Jan 2nd 2024 at 7:33:50 AM

That's a bit (extremely) conspiratorial-sounding, I'd need a source that that was the intention.

@Florien

Actually I don't think that's too big of a stretch, if maybe a bit of an exaggeration. The vibe that I get is more "angry grumbles" but technically it would count.

Admittedly I haven't seen the video in question.

Just to be sure, does "copyright and trademark" as used in this thread also applies to IP of pharmaceuticals?

I believe that'd be a patent.

Not really. I made the conscious decision to exclude patents from the thread subject since I envisioned this thread to be focused more on media discussion and patents are very much there own thing in that respect.

I'm sure patents will come up since there is some overlap between Copyright/Trademark Law and Patents, but I feel like they would work better in a different thread.

Edited by Falrinn on Jan 2nd 2024 at 5:27:53 AM

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.

Give it a few years and the Mouse might end up in Fate/

So, what happened was that Disney let the copyright to Steamboat Willie go public domain, but they still have the rights to Mickey Mouse as a character?