Cleanup Thread: MCU Character Pages

I also made a sandbox for Knowhere, just in case (the byte count is around 42,000): MCU Knowhere

I'm not sure about the Celestials page. The Eternals have enough tropes for their own page. Since Celestials showed up at Omnipotence City in Thor: Love and Thunder, I would suggest moving them there. You also forgot the MCU in the title.

Again, I'm not sure about Knowhere, I think there might be too many extraneous pages, but after It's got through If its still good I think it would be fine.

Personally, right now, I think Gorr's daughter should be put with Gorr in the Shadow Realm on the Cosmic page. The character has done absolutely nothing to warrant being called Thor's ally or a superhero - she just happens to be existing with them at the moment. In contrast, she's a native of the Shadow Realm and is the literal reason why Gorr goes on his God-killing rampage. She may do more later on and warrant the placement, but right now, I'm really gonna advocate for moving her.

I'll do my typical look over on the Knowhere page, though give me some time to think about a Celestials/Eternals page. It makes sense to me but I'm not sure if it's quite necessary.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jul 10th 2022 at 7:18:51 AM

The Shadowrealm is an entirely different place from Gorr's homeworld. Love has never even been to the shadowrealm. So it doesn't make sense.

That’s a very good point, and I’m gonna stop arguing the point when I messed up a big detail like that.

And for what it’s worth, I checked the Knowhere page and I don’t see any misuse, so I think it’s okay.

MCU: Knowhere is launched.

I also merged the LMDs and Framework pages into MCU: Others. I'm thinking of moving AIDA/Madame Hydra to MCU: Other Supervillains though, as by the end of season four she's got her own villainous agenda, and with her amount of screentime compared to other LMDs and Framework characters, plus tropes, I think she should be there for ease of accessibility.

Edited by GateStarX on Jul 10th 2022 at 7:48:23 AM

Does the index on top of the MCU: Deities page mean that we are moving Asgardians from the Cosmic category to the Deities category?

Idk yet. I added the index because I thought it was fitting but I didn't move anything around yet.

I also moved Aida to the other supervillains page.

Edited by GateStarX on Jul 11th 2022 at 5:18:26 AM

I agree with moving Aida / Madame Hydra to the Other Supervillains. I disagree with moving the Framework and the LMDs to a nondescript article such as "Others" for the simple sake of reducing article size.

On another note, I don't know the size of the US. Citizens article, but if there's a Westview article, there should be a Jersey City article for the civilian characters in Ms. Marvel.

And yet another opinion: if we're going to use an "Avengers' allies" article, I think it should be named "Allies and Family"

It wasn't discussed, but I'm gonna agree that the Framework and LMD moves were justified. Those pages were nowhere near long enough to justify their own page, and I personally don't know where else to put them except for the Others page. It was a solid move and unless there's another page we want to move them to, I'm gonna advocate keeping them there for now - while I'm at it, while I didn't say anything before, I agree with the AIDA move for accessibility.

As for a New Jersey page, if the info is big enough, then sure, but the Westview article doesn't just exist because WandaVision focuses on it, but because it's big enough and it helped clear some room. Like I said, though, if there's 40,000 bytes there, then go for it - I'm always down to shrink the length of the Citizens pages, but if a page is too short, that just creates its own problems.

As for Allies, I called it that because it's specifically about their Allies, not their families. It's specifically people who work with the Avengers on their Avenging and end up going into battle. The Stark Family page was made because it was big enough and took the load off the companies page, and the Pym Family was made for the ease of navigation - it wasn't just because they're the families of the Avengers. That'd be like calling Cassie Scott's ally, which she's not (at least yet) - she's a family member, and it's not the same thing.

Also, just wanna say - having rewatched Love and Thunder, I now totally agree with Love's placement, and I honestly have no idea what I was thinking asking it to be moved. I apologize for making such a fuss about it. On the other hand, I think Asgard should just stay as one of the Nine Realms instead of on the Deities page. I'm cool with a link to it on the page, but I don't think that they need to be outright moved when the Nine Realms index helps keep them organized far better. That also means that I'd like to take the Asgardian header off of the Deities page as well.

And finally, just wanna say - ~Angelus25, I noticed that you moved Davos from the Dimensions page to the Other Supervillains page. Now, I don't know enough about Iron Fist to know whether or not that was the right call, but in the future, if you're planning on moving a character from one page to another, please say something here first in case someone disagrees. It's all about discussion here. You didn't seem to have been informed about this before now so no harm no foul, and like I said, I don't know enough about the series to question it's merit, but just in the future, please ask here first before you move a character from one page to another - that way, if someone disagrees, their opinion can be heard first. Other than that, happy to have you onboard the cleanup here

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jul 13th 2022 at 12:30:35 PM

"Its for allies". I understand, yet Wanda a Vision's sons are in the article, so is Aunt May

Because they get involved in the fighting and conflict - May helps get Norman to FEAST, convinces him to spare the villains, and helps fight the Green Goblin (however brief it was), and Billy and Tommy also get involved in the fight against Agatha. It's not because they're family (which is why Cassie, Maggie, and Paxton aren't on the page), it's because they're an active part of the conflicts their respective heroes are involved in. They're not being family members in this case, they're being Allies (to put it in perspective, if we were having this conversation before No Way Home, I wouldn't have put May on the page). Plus, part if it was that the page was previously called "Avengers and Their Allies", and this is part of retaining that previous structure. Basically, renaming it to "Allies and Family" would be naming the page to something that it actually isn't.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jul 13th 2022 at 12:40:05 PM

Didn't Paxton got involved in the conflict against Yellowjacket at the end of Ant-Man? If I remember correctly, he even pointed his gun at him but was disarmed before he could shoot him.

He did, but that was more as a cop then as a ally of Ant-Man though. I'd group him more in the family category then allies.

Also just letting everyone know that I created Sandbox.MCU Gorr The God Butcher. It's not completely ready yet, but it's at 30K right now so it's close. I created the page so I could compile everything together and see how it looked. If anyone thinks more can be added to it it's there for workshopping.

Edit: And I made it to 40,194 bytes, but I'm not sure if everything there should be there. Also, I think the Celestials should be moved to the Deities section as they are basically space Gods, even being called that by the Guardians.

Edited by GateStarX on Jul 13th 2022 at 7:39:10 AM

So, is Davos going to move back to the “Dimensions” page or is he staying in the “Other Supervillains” page?

Having watched the show, I can confirm that Davos became a full supervillain in Season 2 so I think he can stay where he is, unless it causes issues with the Dimension page.

Edited by Mimic45 on Jul 14th 2022 at 12:38:59 PM

Gate Star X: I say wait on Gorr for a bit. The film just came out and assuming there's no misuse I am sure it will get bigger.

Edited by Bullman on Jul 14th 2022 at 8:57:27 AM

well it’s just a sandbox right now. So there’s no harm. And your right about it probably getting bigger, which is one of the reasons I wanted to see if I get get a working page made. Gorr himself is at around 30K, but with the Shadow Realm, Necrosword, and Shadow Monsters it gets past 40K. I’m just not sure if the shadow realm should be on the page or not.

Is there any more consensus on Gorr’s page? It’s been a week and he keeps growing. I think the page is basically ready to launch. Thoughts? It might need to be gone through, and I’m still wary of including the Shadow Realm, but since it’s tied to the Necrosword, I guess it should be there.

Why not make it a Shadow Realm page? Seems weird to include a whole Realm in one of the Character Specific Pages.

I mean the previous wielded of the necrosword could be merged in too. The majority of the tropes are for Gorr though. So idk

A Shadow Realm page makes sense to me as well if it includes the realm and the shadow monsters as well

I've also done my glance over for misuse and cut what I found - it's still at around 43,000, so I think it's okay to go. Before we do, we should decide if the page should be for Gorr or the Shadow Realm though, cause that'll affect placement. Personally, I say make it for the Shadow Realm and index it under Cosmic.

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Jul 15th 2022 at 2:11:08 PM

I vote Gorr personally. Idk. I think given another week Gorr might reach 40K by himself. Everything else is secondary to Gorr himself. But that’s just my opinion.

A Shadow Realm page makes more sense to me. Like we need to show restraint on making pages just because a character reaches the limit. It is even said on Character Specific Pages that it should be a last resort after every other option has been tried and exhausted. Here:

• And most importantly, other options must have been tried first, like splitting pages into further groups.

Edited by Bullman on Jul 15th 2022 at 3:24:38 AM

I think a Shadow Realm page wouldn’t have much content, having five folders total, with Gorrs content being the majority of content.

Edited by GateStarX on Jul 15th 2022 at 4:41:39 AM