RWBY Clean-Up

Nah, I'm steering clear of the Misaimed Fandom page after that little incident with Renault154 got me banned from editing for awhile just because I was trying to stop their vandalism and ended up causing an Edit War.

I appreciate the apology though.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Jan 29th 2022 at 7:38:23 AM

Actually, linking to that thread is quite useful because I just realised that the one ban evader entry (Ironwood's entry) is actually one I wrote during that thread to suggest a fix to the issue people were arguing about.

That at least means I criticised my own entry as well as yours.

So, let's back-pedal a second. The one ban evader entry isn't an issue. It was written by consensus on the discussion page that Rebel has just linked to (I wrote it and feedback led to a modified final version being added to the page). Then a troper came along at a later date and removed the entry unilaterally without discussion (CrimsonAce). The ban evader then added it back to the page, and it was removed again because it was a ban evader who added it back to the page.

So, actually, the Ironwood entry pre-dates the ban evader and should be on the page. So, do we add back the entry that was originally written, or do we rewrite it? I've suggested a rewrite over the page, but then I wrote the original, too, and look how that turned out.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Jan 29th 2022 at 11:17:46 AM

So, I like @Wyldchyld's suggested rewrites for the entries. If we need to relocate them back to the main YMMV page, I'm all for it. Anyone else?

I favour the idea of putting them back on the YMMV page, but I also recently came to the conclusion that I might be a Lumper.

Are there any further comments about the Misaimed Fandom examples?

Other tropers did an Image Pickin' thread to get rid of the multiple images on the Team RWBY character pages (the extra images were moved to an Image Links page for each character sheet). The other character pages need to be brought into line. See here for the outstanding issues.

I've added the following to the Completed folder of Sandbox.Web Animation RWBY Clean Up:

• Sandbox.RWBY Team RWBY: This was created by Septimus Heap in response to a troper request on the Edit Locked Pages thread to do a general update of the page as it had become outdated. The Sandbox is up-to-date (but could be swept for Wall of Text issues first), but remains open, with no apparently impetus to take it back to the mods to get it swapped into the live page. It therefore feels like it's circumventing the lock at this point. It needs to be swapped back in and closed down (or an argument made that the live page be unlocked after the swap since the Sandbox hasn't attracted any ship-related edit warring). Team RWBY was split into four individual character pages by the Character-Specific Page Clean-up thread. See here, here, and here.
• DrinkingGame.RWBY: There was some complaining and duplication removed from the page. See the Drinking Game clean-up thread, here and here.
• VideoExamples.RWBY: Anything that runs afoul of the video quality control and moderation threads. RWBY videos can have issues with length, trope misuse and spoiler information. Then original lists that needed cleaning are reported here and here. They were taken to the Video Moderation Thread here and here.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 12th 2022 at 2:36:09 PM

Like I said, I'm perfectly fine with the adjusted entries Wyld made as well as moving them back to the YMMV page since they're would no longer be enough to justify having an entire page for them.

But what does everyone else think?

One thing I would add to the Ironwood example would be that the examples they bring up for RWBY being incompetently naive are when they lied behind his back and when half of their team sat around in the Schnee Manor making it seem like they were doing nothing.

The Adam example is also good. If I were to add to it, I'd probably say something like "fans accused Ilia of being an expy of Adam".

I do want to take a stab at this tho:

The shaming of Ozpin in Volumes 5-7 is meant to be a relatively clear-cut conflict with the entire group agreeing that Ozpin was in the wrong for keeping as many secrets as possible. However, Ozpin explains that his reasoning for keeping secrets is that Leo, Raven and countless others before usually betray or abandon him when they learn the truth of Salem, which happens again when his past is exposed by Jinn and it's revealed that he effectively did nothing wrong in Salem's origin story beyond dying. It doesn't help that Ozpin is currently in the body of Oscar who gets the crap kicked out of him by Qrow and Jaune (alongside Yang physically intimidating him), and barring Ruby and Weiss, no one stops to ask how Oscar is doing. That Ozpin clearly has a lot of unresolved trauma surrounding his past with Salem that he was forced to relive in extensive detail usually gets overlooked. The conclusion to this was some fans wondering what Ozpin actually did wrong and thinking Qrow, Jaune and Yang were in the wrong for physically assaulting a 14-year-old child.

Here's my rewrite:

It's more shorter, though I feel like some points would be expanding upon.

So, about the use of the "we" language, I brought it up on this ATT and there's a difference between the first-person "we" and editorial "we". According to GnomeTitan:

Thus, we can use the editorial "we" on the RWBY articles where necessary.

Edited by gjjones on Feb 13th 2022 at 5:16:00 AM

I think you might be in danger of cherry-picking.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 15th 2022 at 3:01:00 PM

Hmm…

Anyway, about Psyga's Misaimed Fandom rewrite regarding Ironwood, it looks good to me. Also, do you think we should consider the addition of a "Save the dates" section to the sandbox page so we know what dates we should be aware of?

Edited by gjjones on Feb 15th 2022 at 1:55:50 PM

By this point it'll eventually be a full year since the finale came out with no sign of a Volume 9 in sight save for the occasional tease.

The only problem I have with Psyga's entry is that it's an Unintentionally Sympathetic example — a really good one, in fairness, but Ozpin already has an entry for that. We already have a problem with the existing US example in that we don't know if it genuinely meets the "unintentional" requirement, especially given the Atlas Arc had an entire storyline about the heroes coming to understand Ozpin's position. If we can't be certain it's unintentional, then we don't know that a Misaimed Fandom exists about that perspective.

The closest thing I've ever heard of to a possible MF for Ozpin is that section of the fandom who were absolutely determined to interpret him as evil, who dislike the Jinn reveal that all he really did was die, and who therefore still seek to turn him into a bad guy regardless of anything either the show or writers say, such as dismissing his trauma to paint him as a spoiled sulking man-child — causing unfortunate implications in the process by using language that helps perpetrate the stigma of mental health conditions in real life.

That said, I'm also not sure how big that part of the fanbase really is; they tend to congregate around a few really vocal RWBY reactors who share that perspective, and in the places where the caustic critics and hatedom gather. So, that might just be a Vocal Minority.

At the end of the day it comes down to consensus. If you're all happy with Psyga's post (and I get that you are), then by all means add it to the list, we'll get the YMMV page updated, and put MF to bed.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 18th 2022 at 11:25:37 AM

Agreed. While it's entirely reasonable for someone to think that with the build up to Ozpin's role in Salem's existence that it ultimately led to "lol, no, he just died", I haven't seen a lot of critiques (or even big name critics) citing that as a flaw.

In an ironic reflection of the show, the most people took away from the flashback reveal was the very last bit (the fact that the main characters turned on Ozpin), much like how most of the main characters only took the last bit into consideration with only Maria actually paying attention to more than just two words.

Yeah, that's fair enough. Since everyone else is fine with the entry, we may as well just get the agreed entries up. It's four entries in total, isn't it? The main characters issue, the Cordovin Arc issue, the Ironwood issue, and the Ozpin issue?

Are the Misaimed Fandom entries going to be transferred now? Cause they look fine and ready.

Okay, just to confirm what we're doing with MisaimedFandom.RWBY:

My understanding is that these four entries are going to be kept, put onto the YMMV page, and the Misaimed Fandom page sent to the Cut List because there aren't quite enough examples.

Is that right?

(Note: I've just done a slight grammar/wordcruft clean-up of all four entries. The only significant change I've made is removing Put on a Bus from the Ozpin entry because he's not removed from the story, he goes into an Heroic BSoD).

• Many regard Team RWBY as the only main characters and feel that Team JNPR, Oscar and Qrow are a Spotlight-Stealing Squad, resulting in a backlash when these characters take centre stage, such as their focus during Volumes 7-8, or Jaune's arc in Volume 1. They desire the others to be Put on a Bus so that Team RWBY receives sole focus, and dislike Jaune joining Team RWBY in the Void Between the Worlds. The show itself is clear that there is an ensemble cast; Team JNPR have been deuteragonists since the beginning, even though marketing usually focusses on Team RWBY. The writers' have confirmed that the show was almost called "Remnant" instead of "RWBY", as there was never an intention to focus solely on just one team.
• The subplot revolving around the heroes shaming Ozpin was meant to serve as a stepping stone for the group learning to make their own decisions without the mentor's help. However, the way in which Ozpin is displaced rubbed fans the wrong way; the heroes' reactions to Ozpin, and lashing out at Oscar, indirectly proved Ozpin's point about keeping secrets from others. It's not helped by how fans believed that their decision to lie to Ironwood had little to no prompting, which — while meant to be seen as them learning why Ozpin kept secrets — came off to some fans as a moment of hypocrisy.
• A significant part of the fandom is sympathetic to authority figures who uphold the law, which generated controversy during Volume 6's Cordovin arc. Fans perceived Cordovin to be reasonable, just doing her job, and that actions such as deploying a Mecha against trained Huntsmen were necessary; they were shocked and angry at the protagonists stealing a military airship, blaming them for consequences such as the Grimm attack on Argus. The writers portrayed Cordovin as petty, prideful and vindictive, so were surprised by the controversy; they wanted a fun, straight-forward climax without moral ambiguity to counter Adam's darker sub-plot, and revealed that the Atlesian military considered Cordovin annoying and assigned her to Argus because they thought she couldn't bother anyone there.
• Ironwood has a devoted fanbase who see him as a strong military leader who can make the tough choices when his allies cannot, and who dislike the protagonists as naïve heroes endangering lives with their idealism. They feel Volumes 7-8 portrayed Ironwood as being the only person with a plan to save some lives in contrast to Team RWBY, who wanted to endanger everyone's lives due to having no plan to save anyone and no will to make the tough call to guarantee the salvation of some. They therefore believe that Ironwood was derailed into the role of a ruthless, impotent villain in favour of Protagonist-Centred Morality. The backlash was so strong that the writers pointed out that Ironwood had been portrayed as a deeply flawed individual from the beginning, and that he was meant to be regarded as unambiguously villainous by the end of Volume 7.

I've posted this to the RWBY forum thread as well for extra feedback.

Edited to add:

The Team RWBY entry was rewritten to remove an unverified claim, as follows:

• Many regard Team RWBY as the only main characters and feel that Team JNPR, Oscar and Qrow are a Spotlight-Stealing Squad, resulting in a backlash when these characters take centre stage, such as their focus during Volumes 7-8, or Jaune's arc in Volume 1. They desire the others to be Put on a Bus so that Team RWBY receives sole focus, and dislike Jaune joining Team RWBY in the Void Between the Worlds. The show itself is clear that there is an ensemble cast; Team JNPR have been deuteragonists since the beginning, even though marketing usually focusses on Team RWBY. The writers' confirmed in the supplementary RWBY: Companion that it was always intended to be a larger story, they just couldn't introduce that world until Volume 4.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 28th 2022 at 9:36:14 AM

Okay, just to confirm. The four Misaimed Fandom entries have been added to the YMMV.RWBY page and the MisaimedFandom.Web Media page. The Misaimed Fandom RWBY page has been sent to the Cut List.

I was looking at the UI entry for The show, and kinda think it could use some touching up?

' : The fandom generally regards the Fantastic Racism of the Faunus as badly handled, including portraying the only Faunus rights organisation (the White Fang) as terrorists that only achieve success when led by A Nazi by Any Other Name who abusively stalks his ex-girlfriend. It accidentally sends the message that the fight for equal rights becomes morally wrong if there's any deviation from peaceful protests while also portraying peaceful protests as ineffectual (e.g., see some examples as follows). The creators have acknowledged in interviews that they didn't handle it well, and discuss in Volume 5, Chapter 10 DVD Commentary how they originally planned a minor background storyline before realising that the issue is too important for that and that they should have handled it better.'

I'm not sure if the WF are the only civil rights organization, our first mention of the WF is hearing how they disrupted a separate civil rights protest

But more importantly, the thing about the white fang only achieving success when led by Adam is just straight up wrong? He only becomes leader in Volume 5 and doesn't last long enough to get to his big plan(Wich was to start a global race War(

He was leader of the Vale branch until Volume 5, so he was a successful leader until he became the High Leader, at which point his obsessions went off the rails and took the organisation down with him.

That and he was pretty much the de facto leader (the fact that a lot of White Fangs would rather want him ruling than Sienna)

Now that it's been over a year since the eighth volume, I think we should revisit the note about the First Members seeing the episodes before the general public. Any ideas?

Why? That note applies every year.

Oh, it's just a thought I have, since anything can change overtime (even streaming schedules).

Edited by gjjones on Mar 13th 2022 at 6:56:48 AM

Unless Rooster Teeth announces the period to be something other than a week, there's no reason to change the note.

Hmm, I see.

Edited by gjjones on Mar 14th 2022 at 10:17:58 AM