Rescuing characters from a cut page (Characters/WarcraftThe ArtifactWeapons)

Posting here following this conversation in Ask The Tropers.

The issue concerns Warcraft The Artifact Weapons - which was cut being it concerned mainly non-sapient items. Problem is that some of those items were characters in their own right, and at least one has been given a physical body to possess and can thus act on its (her?) own.

Thus, the page had actual characters in it when it was cut. These characters were not copied to other character pages before it was deleted.

Can we get the page restored so we can do that? Or is there a way to do it without restoring it?

Edited by Theharbo on Apr 9th 2021 at 10:26:32 AM

I've managed to find some of it from the Wayback Machine, but the last snapshot taken was from before the pandemic. Any chance a more up-to-date version could be found?

Edited by Theharbo on Apr 12th 2021 at 10:25:28 AM

Can't you just PM a mod asking for temporary restoration so you can grab the legit content?

I'm not seeing consensus on which weapons count as characters.

Xal'atath, Aluneth, and Thal'kiel are characters. Xal'atath moreso than the other two, since she actually has a humanoid body nowadays, but the remaining two are still characters even if they are 'just' Empathic Weapons: they have personalities and sapience, even if they aren't capable of locomotion

Didn't know that was a thing. I've just been editing here for years; I have no idea about the actual methods with which you do things beyond that.

Edited by Theharbo on Apr 23rd 2021 at 10:17:38 AM

I've now tried both contacting both Crazysamaritan and Eyebones, neither of which have responded and none of the other mods seem to deal with things even remotely close to this...

I mean, you shouldn't have to expect the latter to respond since he's been deemed retired, but the former is clearly active. I'd say you have the right to be annoyed (though he did post above).

Edited by Piterpicher on May 3rd 2021 at 1:58:46 PM

I asked for consensus. One person giving me a list isn't consensus. I don't know the work at all, so I can't tell which ones would/should fit. I want several tropers in agreement over which items have enough characterization before I recreate the information.

Why do you need a consensus? If something is displaying character traits, then it's a character, surely?

I've no horse in this race but consensus is how things get done on the wiki, generally. If crazysamaritan is not familiar with Warcraft then essentially they'll just be taking your word for it. I suggest asking the Warcraft forums if their opinions about what counts as a 'character' lines up with yours.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=kpqp2c2egjwtfe5k8g8wqbdx&page=1

I guess? It just seems a little weird to me that you'd need a vote for what is a character and what isn't. I could link their The Wiki Rule pages if that'd help?

Made a post in that thread, thank you!

Edited by Theharbo on May 4th 2021 at 10:35:06 AM

I'll make it easy: is the weapon sentient? If the answer is "no" then it's not a character.

I can't tell what items display character traits (proper trope use) and what doesn't actually display those traits (shoehorns) because I'm not familiar with the work. It's the difference between Wilson from Cast Away and Mjolnir from the Marvel Cinematic Universe, something I can only determine from knowing the work. Since I'm not really familiar with any aspect of the Warcraft franchise, and it's been established that many of the so-called "characters" actually aren't, I need a consensus to establish which ones are characters. Based on the linked ATT, there's only one item that I would paste into a sandbox, but rather than revisit the sandbox several times, I'd prefer to get the consensus established upfront.

Even the reasonably useful "is the weapon sentient" isn't useful to me, because it would require me to believe that the entries all accurately state their sentience. To people who know the work, they can form a list based on that rule and tell me which ones apply.

fwiw my comment wasn't really directed at you so much as the OP. Probably should have been more clear there.

Xal'atath is definitely a character, an Old God who was imprisoned inside a dagger and then broke free and assumed a female elf form. Check her story here if in doubt: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Xal%27atath

Aluneth and Thal'kiel's skull are weapons who talk to their owners. NOT like Mjolnir in the MCU. Some of their quotes: https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Aluneth#Quotes https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Skull_of_the_Man%27ari#Quotes

As far as I understand, Thal'kiel's skull contains his essence https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Thal%27kiel But I play a shadow priest, not a warlock, so I'm not 100% sure about that. I'm 100% sure about Xal'atath (the dagger was shadow priest's weapon a while ago) though.

I'd restore their sections.

Edit: An in-game cutscene with Xal'atath: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTvUnQxvk4I&ab_channel=ZarenaDT

Edited by Asherinka on May 5th 2021 at 3:10:40 PM

I tihnk in addition to the three listed the Maw of the Damned (or more specifically Netrezaar) also counts as a character, although with only one actual line. he does however have an established backstory and general motivation, so he's certainly tropable.

Seems to me there's a consensus for four characters between this thread and the world of warcraft thread.

1) Xal'atath, The (former) Blade of the Black Empire. Is actively out and walking in her own body at present.

2) The Skull of the Man'ari, possessed by a demon named Thal'kiel. Capable of speech and has a personality of his own.

3) Aluneth, Greatstaff of the Magna, home to the arcane entity of the same name, capable of speech and has a personality of his own

4) The Maw of the Damned, possessed by a demon named Netrezaar (who has his own story before then) and given a Horror Hunger that's so great he only says one line as a weapon once the one responsible for his predicament is slain.

Edited by Theharbo on May 23rd 2021 at 9:03:35 PM

There are three or four sentient weapons. One was a priest weapon, and one was a skull the warlocks had. I remember Aluneth best, as I played an arcane mage at that time.

Alright, that's good enough. There was clear consensus for Xal'atath, and there was at least some for Netrezaar, with nobody outright disputing the claim. The context/content for "the Maw" is a bit lacking, so I hope you'll do some cleanup and add more tropes before putting them on the character pages, but everything has been moved to Sandbox.The Harbo for you to edit.

Thank you kindly. I'll get to work on it as soon as I am actually done with work today.