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Protagonist506 from 'MURICA Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Feb 22nd 2021 at 10:13:46 AM

With L3, I'd argue it's not mutually exclusive whether you're supposed to laugh or agree.

To use an example from a sci-fantasy themed RPG Maker game I once was working on: There were a few signs that displayed PS As that warned about the dangers of using dark magics, but were clearly written in a way that resembled anti-drugs PS As. In-universe, this is a pretty reasonable way to look at it, but it's still 100% a joke. However, it's not funny because it's wrong, it's funny that they're right and the format of their argument (discussion of unholy powers in the format of a cheesy anti-drug PSA).

Similarly, with L3, they're a joke, but not because their position is incorrect per se. More that it's funny to see the issue presented through someone like her. At worst, the joke is that she's a single issue wonk who won't shut up about her pet issue, not that her pet issue is wrong. I'd even say the narrative sort of vindicates her given the revolt she starts.

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
Tuckerscreator from Traveling through the Multiverse Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Feb 22nd 2021 at 10:19:17 AM

I would expect our actual heroes treat her with the baseline level of respect that they would for another sapient being (after all, the Millennium Falcon gets more reverence than most named characters). My question is whether the narrative frames her as a windmill chaser or someone who makes sense which I can't speak to.

To be honest, only Qira really treats L3 with consistent respect. Han doesn't pay her any attention, and Lando's treatment of her varies to different extremes. Sometimes he's complaining he should memory wipe her, then L3 claims he's secretly in love with her and he openly mourns her when she dies, and at the end when Han gambles for the Falcon Lando is cool with wagering it and doesn't mention L3 in it at all.

As for L3's revolt, it's treated comically. The freed droids behave much like leaping Oompa-Loompas with squeaky voices and smashing stuff willy-nilly. It feels more like a Free the Frogs type of deal. Compare Chewbacca's revolt in the same scene, where he frees an enslaved Wookiee and that's treated with greater gravitas, with the two exchanging meaningful greetings and farewells and the victim Wookiee looking and behaving far more like someone who's been abused than an appliance spinning out of control.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 22nd 2021 at 11:52:19 AM

“If your good mood was ruined because you got into an accident with a car...”
Feb 22nd 2021 at 11:21:48 AM

@Droids.

Star Wars has been overdue for a droid nation or something for a long time, even as far back as the original trilogy where droids being abused despite being sapient was already being used for pathos here and there.

I remember being really excited about the existence of Kalani, because I thought it could be used to introduce a droid-based group during the ST era, but the St wasn't really interested in that kind of worldbuilding.

@Using stun:

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Blueace Blue Reflection Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Blue Reflection
Feb 22nd 2021 at 11:26:33 AM

Man, Chopper has a loose hologram projector.

RussellStar5641 Gently wrap up this world like the night sky. from a view of a starry night sky. Relationship Status: In love with love
Gently wrap up this world like the night sky.
Feb 22nd 2021 at 1:46:23 PM

The Age of Republic issue about Grevious had him receive a vision in a jedi temple and it very much mocks how little he understands about the force and how by replacing his body with mechanical parts he has robbed himself of his connection to the force and the in many respects the rest of the galaxy. How small he really is in the grand scheme of things. So I don't think droids would be able to feel the force given that Grevious didn't get a vision until the had put his whole body into the waterfall.

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TheBryceKrispy Prodigy of Procrastination from What Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Prodigy of Procrastination
Feb 22nd 2021 at 1:49:17 PM

No spoilers? I guess I won’t say who Luke Skywalker’s father is.

Weirdguy149 Space Napolehitler from SPACE Relationship Status: I'd jump in front of a train for ya!
Space Napolehitler
Feb 22nd 2021 at 1:53:29 PM

This basically started out as the non-current movie thread for Star Wars, but I think the title should be changed to Star Wars General Discussion.

You have five minutes to read this signature.
Larkmarn Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Feb 22nd 2021 at 2:17:55 PM

What can and cannot affect/be affected by The Force has... fluctuated. In ANH Obi-Wan said it connected all life forms. In the prequels, Midichlorians were used to measure it (but, as I maintain, weren't the source of Force Sensitivity). In TLJ, Luke specifically said that it is an energy between all things binding the universe together, rather than just living things.

In Legends, Vader's cybernetics explicitly limit his access to higher Force Powers (ie Force Lightning).

Given all this, honestly I'd be super okay with them coming out and saying "Force Sensitive Droids aren't a thing" or "Nah, Droids totally can use the Force." It's so comically muddled that honestly it would make no difference to me one way or the other.

theLibrarian That all you got? from his own little world
That all you got?
Feb 22nd 2021 at 2:29:08 PM

Really the only way that droids are mistreated in this universe is if they annoy the protagonists. 3PO never shuts up, for instance, and has no sense of tact, hence why he's the chew toy amongst the heroes.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
Protagonist506 from 'MURICA Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Feb 22nd 2021 at 2:31:58 PM

To my understanding in both canons cybernetics limit Force Sensitivity and droids essentially can't be Force Sensitive.

In Legends there were Iron Knights that were force-sensitive crystals put into droid bodies, but they were noted to be a very weird and controversial thing among the Jedi.

Personally, I think it makes sense if only organics can be force sensitive, because it'd explain a good deal why transhumanism doesn't seem to be as common: Jedi are useful enough to create parity between robots and organics.

Though, to be fair, the in-universe explanation appears to be that robotics and cybernetics aren't quite that effective. We rarely see a character like Adam Jensen or Mega Man (who'd be useful even a setting with Jedi)

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
Feb 22nd 2021 at 2:32:56 PM

The Old EU was very rigid about technology and the force, yeah. In the current canon, though, Vader's cybernetics making him significantly weaker doesn't seem to be a thing - or at least he's still capable of insane feats of power regardless.

Like a lot of the Old EU's conventions about the force, though, I likewise don't care much either way about some fo that maybe getting contradicted someday.

Characters like Huyang, either way, would imply that even if droids can't use the force, that doesn't mean they can't be guided by the force.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 22nd 2021 at 2:36:48 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Shadao Surprised Satoshi
Surprised Satoshi
Feb 22nd 2021 at 2:36:06 PM

[up] To be fair, Anakin was supposed to have the most potential of all the Force users, so the fact he's still powerful despite being crippled just makes you wonder just what kind of feats he would be capable of as a healthy individual. The only folks who could answer that would either Luke Skywalker or Kylo Ren.

Feb 22nd 2021 at 2:50:23 PM

[up][up]Vader only became "weak" in the sense that he could not reach his potential, but in himself, Vader is much more powerful than when he was Anakin.

Tuckerscreator from Traveling through the Multiverse Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Feb 22nd 2021 at 2:52:55 PM

Ironically in terms of onscreen might Vader comes off as much more powerful as a cyborg than Kylo Ren did with all of his original limbs. tongue

“If your good mood was ruined because you got into an accident with a car...”
Protagonist506 from 'MURICA Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Feb 22nd 2021 at 2:54:37 PM

Yeah, it's worth noting that The Force isn't just magic powers or only useful to Force Sensitives. It's also a semi-sapient deity-like entity that effects the universe in subtle ways.

You could, for example, have a religious droid, and The Force might see fit to pull strings in their favor.

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
Feb 22nd 2021 at 2:58:14 PM

[up][up] Hell, Vader's feats tend to be significantly bigger and more powerful than Anakin's were. Stuff like the end of Fallen Order, where he practically turns the inside of an Imperial base into a hurricane, let alone the stuff he gets up to in the comics, tend to be a hell of a thing.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 22nd 2021 at 2:58:37 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Tuckerscreator from Traveling through the Multiverse Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Feb 22nd 2021 at 2:58:19 PM

[up][up]That makes me think of Zenyatta, especially since the Jedi are very influenced by Buddhism.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 22nd 2021 at 2:58:38 AM

“If your good mood was ruined because you got into an accident with a car...”
Feb 22nd 2021 at 2:59:04 PM

Yeah, again, droids being guided by the force can absolutely be a thing even if they're not using it directly.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Feb 22nd 2021 at 3:00:59 PM

Honestly if you told me that R2-D2 was force sensitive I would completely believe it.

Larkmarn Relationship Status: Hello, I love you
Feb 22nd 2021 at 3:01:05 PM

[up][up][up][up][up] So basically Donnie Yen's character from Rogue One but a droid?

EDIT: Jesus, I got ninja'd to hell while I considered whether or not to name the character or just use the actor's name.

Edited by Larkmarn on Feb 22nd 2021 at 6:02:18 AM

theLibrarian That all you got? from his own little world
That all you got?
Feb 22nd 2021 at 3:23:02 PM

Well it would also explain how a religion centered around worship of the Force grew up since the end of the Clone Wars.

That is the face of a man who just ate a kitten. Raw.
slimcoder King Shark is a Shark
King Shark is a Shark
Feb 22nd 2021 at 3:28:35 PM

One of the recent comics outright has Vader slay a kaiju.

The black knight slays a gigantic-ass dragon.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 22nd 2021 at 3:28:44 AM

"It's been an honor to fight by your side."
Protagonist506 from 'MURICA Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Feb 22nd 2021 at 3:34:02 PM

I'm actually pretty surprised one didn't exist earlier. I mean, Jedi are the highest priests, but I would have expected there'd be mundane churches of non-Force Sensitives who talk about how the Force influences life and what have you. Actually, in theory, they might view Jedi as being akin to The Force's angels if you will.

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
Feb 22nd 2021 at 3:34:12 PM

[up][up][up] ... which religion is that? Donnie Yen's character is from a religious order older than the Clone Wars.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 22nd 2021 at 3:34:45 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Protagonist506 from 'MURICA Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Feb 22nd 2021 at 4:02:34 PM

Interestingly, Force-Worshipping droid akin to Donnie Yen's character could theoretically be about as powerful as a lot of Force Users. Think IG-11 with The Force helping. Or, heck, think Mega Man X with The Force's help.

Actually, I'd probably have the theme of the character's story be that they think the outward use of the Force is mildly overrated (especially if they think certain powers can be replicated by technology), but that the true power of The Force is its ability to orchestrate destiny. This isn't quite Han Solo's viewpoint, so much as "in the hands of The Force, a simple blaster is adequate".

"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"

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