The General Star Wars Thread

@jawal You know that may actually be helped by the very fact that have droid soldiers. It is easier to support war when you know that people you care about are not likely to die in it.

Edited by Risa123 on Jun 1st 2023 at 12:02:35 PM

It's not like the Republic had an army to keep the Separatists from leaving for them to worry about.

I wonder if the Empire had any pushback against conscripting Stormtroopers who actually are regular people over continuing the Clone Trooper program by average citizens who don't want their loved ones to get drafted.

Sadly, former "baddies" often do up in power. The Confederacy. The Nazis.

Hell, Command and Conquer had GDI using a Puppet King until Kane returned.

I'd be interested to see more Separatist presence in the New Republic, really.

It's all but directly stated that a lot of former Separatists joined up with the Rebel Alliance, after all. I really want a story that deals with that too, during the Galactic Civil War Era: former Republic loyalists and Separatists now having to share an ideology.

Bad Batch has a couple episodes that sort of edge into the idea, but I'd love to see more of it.

I really wish they hadn't had Separatists be part of the Alliance. The Separatits worked best when they were comically evil villains planning to annihilate planets with the Blue Shadow virus and war crimes everywhere.

Why?

Because they exist to justify Palpatine's Police State.

And to every people who defend the Separatists, there's this.

a planet's right to fair and honest taxes!

Well the Separatists don't have consistent goals other than to get away from the Republic.

So to some those rights are to practice slavery.

where's space Lincoln when you need him

Closest would be Padme IIRC. Since the EU lore has stated she has worked to combat slavery and tried to free Anakin's mom.

And to some it's the right to leave a wildly corrupt and incompetent government.

Edited by ECD on Jun 1st 2023 at 5:15:09 AM

So they can instead be ruled by a government that cuts the middle man and just has corporations run the thing.

But that’s the beauty of it, the CIS can be whatever people think it is because it’s just a puppet for Sheev.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jun 1st 2023 at 8:21:44 PM

The Separatists only real unifying motivation being "anti-Republic" means they had ridiculous amount of motivations, some of which were completely contradictory, and nearly every different group was oblivious to what the other groups were after.

There were Separatists whose entire reason for fighting the Republic was opposing corporate corruption and control, and Separatists who were literally corrupt corporations vying for more control. The Zygerrians were slavers who joined because the Republic never let them be slavers. Nina Bonteri (the one pictured above) joined because she and her people were convinced the Separatists were people's rights populist movement.

There's also stuff like Umbara who only joined because they were pissed their Senator got murdered. (Incidentally, Umbara is high on my list of worlds I want to see again).

Dooku's biggest skill was somehow managing to convince anybody to join the Separatists by offering them anything. He almost got the Toydarians to join, and they're an entirely nation of pacifist philanthropists.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 1st 2023 at 5:29:57 AM

I know it’s a thing that feels like an informed attribute but Revenge of the Sith’s opening flat out says their’s heroes on both sides of the war.

True but Grevious also destroyed an entire ecumenopolis too and many other atrocities according to the novelization.

As Charles notes, there's a guy called General Grievous on the Separatist side.

They really need to work on their branding.

Just like the Republic, the CIS had local regular forces - heck, we've had at least story arc where the 501st was fighting a purely non-droid army (the Umbara arc).

A meme implying the creator only read the word Confederacy and never actually looked into the actual context?

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Jun 1st 2023 at 6:31:09 PM

I've said this elsewhere, but "heroes on both sides" never came off to me like "there are some good eggs in the Confederacy".

To me it just meant that war heroes exist. Which...yeah. Sev'rance Tann, Ventress, Greivous, and so on.

That's possible. Lucas does strike me as the type to use the term "war hero" in the classical sense as "a great warrior" rather than the modern sense as "a good guy."

Except then we got an episode literally titled "Heroes on both Sides", showing that there are people within the CIS who seceded over perfectly valid reasons.

The tragic part being that the guy they're following is not actually a good person.

And as I pointed out before, the public at large likely never learned the truth because who's gonna tell them? The Jedi are gone and the Empire's an Unreliable Narrator at best and also pretty much a validation of the non-corpo Separatists' beliefs.

And it's not like it's even limited to civilian leaders either - when we get to see Kalani again in Rebels, he indicates that at least some of the droids were programmed with the idea that fighting the Republic meant fighting tyranny.

Which is how Ezra ultimately convinced him to aid them in fighting off the local Imperial forces (and the people behind the show mentioned that he likely joined up with the Rebellion after Yavin).

I think the reason the mention of "heroes on both sides" gets unadressed within Revenge of the Sith because... well, to be frank, George Lucas clearly wasn't able to put everything he wanted into a movie's length of time.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Jun 1st 2023 at 6:53:08 PM

"The tragic part being that the guy they're following is not actually a good person. "

I mean, given how the whole thing end, you can said the same of the republic.

Men themore you think of it, you can imagine how please palpatine was with sending jedi to fight and dying for his sake before shooting them in the back.

It's worth noting that that episode was written about half a decade after Lucas originally wrote that line, so it might not be reflective of what he was thinking at the time.

Considering Clone Wars was also a way for Lucas to include a bunch of stuff he couldn't fit into his movies....

Yeah, but it was still made years after the movies were over, and a lot of the things put into The Clone Wars are very different if not occasionally contradictory to things he put in the films, because ideas change over time.

I think if Lucas always intended for the Separatists to have sympathetic shades to them all along, he wouldn't have originally written them as over the top evil when he initially had the chance.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 1st 2023 at 10:34:16 AM