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Superman really deserves another good animated show, and I prefer one with a lot of goofy fun Silver Age stuff in it. Sort of like Batman: The Brave and the Bold, but for Supes and his supporting cast.
That is bathos and it just end deflecting the seriousness of stuff, MCU for a while didnt take itself seriously and that is why the term "marvel humor" become dread for a while: it was pretty much "make as much joke as it can and just wink to the audience"
Is the dreamwork efect: they start to be edgy but they pretty much became tame and very by the rules.
Edited by unknowing on Feb 19th 2020 at 10:58:32 AM
It's really nice to see the DCEU rebounding like it has. What a far cry from Suicide Squad these new movies are, I'm so proud of 'em.
That's my point, Marvel doesn't take the superhero elements nearly as seriously as DC does. It still does take them seriously, but it tends to acknowledge when things get really crazy. DC doesn't. DC has literal giant starfish aliens that mind-control people and the heroes are just like "okay, this is a serious threat to millions of lives which we must stop", and then they look awesome doing it.
The Marvel company was created to tell serious human stories about prejudice because DC was telling stories about Batman wearing rainbow Batsuits to pander to little children. Marvel being more cynical, realistic, and grounded while DC is more idealistic, fantastic, and earnest goes back decades.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Feb 19th 2020 at 8:04:11 AM
And yet the situation is reversed here: Marvel tendency to humor, wisecrack and other pretty much just said "we are bunch of color people here punching each other!" which a huge dose of optimism and a refusal or being very serious at all(not surprising, the movie that DOES like black panther or winter soldier are very well regarded).
MCU is pretty much "awsome heroes being awsome and funny" and it pretty much become the standar in how to ground stuff, a lot of critic against DCCU can be pretty much be said as "why aren you just colorfull and stupid fun?".
Is DCCU the one who actually manage to use WWI sucessfully without feeling awkard and the one who make a powerfull story using a clown, what it work on comic book isnt the same in comic book movies.
I'd just like to point out that the DC movies that did try to be most like the MCU are actually the ones that flopped.
Either way, just how many topics are we going to re-hash here? Snyder's gone, the DCEU is pretty much rebooting. Face it, you guys won. There are super villains that hold grudges over less. This has since gone into Star Wars fandom territory.
Edited by windleopard on Feb 19th 2020 at 7:57:25 AM
I dont know how much it "won" consider the joker did absolutly better than many superhero movie, specially when a) it barely have any ties to comic books b) take a sympathy take on of the huge mass murder and c) was absolutely brutal.
Itís a transition period. Simply imitating the MCU has proven to be as much folly as the prior approach. And with BOP possibly losing money, I donít think theyíre done tweaking things yet.
Personally I want to see Wonder Woman 84, see where they go with the universe, or if they think a disconnect is wiser.
Yeah, I remember one particular idiot saying Joker was obviously made because WB wanted to spite those who hated Man of Steel and Batman vs Superman. And I thought the "Disney paid the critics" crowd where the only ones with dumb conspiracy theories.
Either way, for the most part, the DCEU is in a new direction so maybe we can all just unclench and appreciate it instead of whining about past failures and perceived slights.
Edited by windleopard on Feb 19th 2020 at 8:18:17 AM
Also, I disagree with the idea that the MCU is just pure idealism. I think the MCU matches the "Marvel tone" really closely of being realistic, cynical, snarky, and grounded. It's not just "awesome heroes doing awesome things", that's a mischaracterization of how the movies are written. Cynicism is not the same as seriousness, the MCU is lighthearted and cynical. Making fun of supervillains because of their designs is cynical.
The problem with the older DCCU films is that they either tried to go further past Marvel's domain into Edgy and Grimdark or they tried to just ape the MCU. The only DCCU movies that really felt like proper DC films so far have been Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Shazam, and even they had problems really committing fully. The closest to what I think of as the DC ideal tone is Aquaman. Wonder Woman was a bit too dark and Shazam was a bit too ironic. As much as I loved Birds of Prey, it didn't really feel like a DC film to me, though it did feel more like DC than it did Marvel.
The newer DCCU films are good films, a massive improvement over the first films of the DCCU, but they still don't quite fit in that DC-shaped hole in my heart. They're close, but I have yet to watch a newer DC film that really made me feel like an awestruck kid again. It's not like it's impossible, the live-action DC shows have many episodes that succeed in that department.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Feb 19th 2020 at 9:40:48 AM
The only DC films these days that actually are cynical are Bv S and Joker and even the former is a lot less so than the latter. Everything else is simply more serious than a saturday morning cartoon but to online geeks that is enough to be labeled "grim dark" because something can't be optimistic if we don't have 100 quips a minute.
Edited by windleopard on Feb 19th 2020 at 8:57:49 AM
I dont think that wisecracking is cynical, is tounge in cheek, is being on joke, compared deadpool who actually mocks stuff and not in a toung in cheek but actually mocking stuff like superhero landing or continuity issues.
Marvel feel like "this is silly, but is the point" deadpool is more "all this is just dumb" and even them deadpool know when to drop the funny act(Ajax impaling wade is fucking brutal, I dare marvel doing something like that).
And it is idealist is how it plays in their movie, let make a recap, can we?.
at the end of civil war, Rhodey is paralize by is own team, cap is a criminal, tony is isolated, tchalla pretty much blow up is identity and screw the accord for is personal vendetta, Scott is a criminal(again), Vision is traumatized and doubting of what he did, and the unity of the avenger is shatter.
That is a cynical and grim interpretation of the movie that one could said is true.....except the tone isnt like that, is heroic, it sugest tony and cap mend the worst part, it dosent let the tragedy sunk further because is not what the movie wants, compare that to superman funeral which is somber but with the idea of hopefullness and marvel come as optimism as result.
For me Wonder woman come to me, is hopefull but never in a sense of "SHE ROCKS!" or that the world is bending to maker her look cool, the movie manage to balance the hopefullness of diana with the bleakness of WWI.
Edited by unknowing on Feb 19th 2020 at 1:02:50 PM
Wrong thread, ignore
Edited by Spottedleaf on Feb 20th 2020 at 8:23:07 AM
James Gunn is hyping up his Suicide Squad script as one of his favorites heís done.
Oh shit this brawl is just awesome.
One of the few moments where the entire League go all out.
Dat 90's CGI. So bad.
... but the scene. So good.
Reminds me. I still want Jeffrey Combs as DCEU The Question.
I'd like someone who can pull off a super quirky detective that's very good at his job.
With Montoya in the DCEU now, I was hoping some later movie or something would have her as Question.
Edited by alliterator on Feb 20th 2020 at 10:25:30 AM
Mind went straight to James Roday.
Edited by Cross on Feb 20th 2020 at 1:36:45 PM
Also I finally watched Mask of the Phantasm with my fam.
And the weirdest part was just seeing young Bruce...... happy.
I don't think I've ever seen Bruce smiling or laughing post dead parents. Like he was so full of vibrant youth and charm in his 20's, it was disconcerting.
....... Wait no I think The Batman also had smiling Bruce.
There are plenty of times Bruce is shown smiling throughout his history. Maybe not as often as frowning or having a neutral expression but it's there.
Edited by windleopard on Feb 20th 2020 at 11:19:21 AM
Like that wonderful bit in Joker.
In further detail it wasn't just that he smiled but the fact he seemed genuinely happy. Unlike most Bruce's he doesn't seem profoundly eternally depressed & almost completely gave up being a vigilante because he actually moving on from his parents death, something very few Bruce's are capable of doing.
Also the Joker's ending is fucking bombastic. Sure his 2 deaths in Return of the Joker are perfect especially since he is pretty much a Dirty Coward when faced with his own mortality but seeing him for once laughing is pretty awesome.
About to die at the hands of the Bats mad lover as he watches while the city of the future comes crashing down around him in a blazing inferno, all the Joker can do is laugh. He looks in the face of death and laughs because he's found it, the funniest death ever. The perfect joke.
Edited by slimcoder on Feb 20th 2020 at 11:13:14 AM
The Joker always gets out of those "deaths" since explosions are a perfect way to escape Batman and fool people into thinking he's dead. That particular death isn't really special for me since Joker laughed when he was on that Lexcorp Super Bomber that exploded, laughed when he was on a helicopter that fell to the ground and exploded, etc.
I always like the "That's not funny" death because the irony of the Joker being Killed Off for Real is the one where he realized that dying isn't really funny. So anticlimactic and so undignified, that's what the Joker deserves to learn.
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