Just like Batman himself. How meta.

edit: Can't we add a function to automatically quote the previous message in pagetoppers or something?

Edited by Lyendith on Feb 14th 2020 at 7:27:15 PM

Flippé de participer à ce grand souper, je veux juste m'occuper de taper mon propre tempo.

The consistency of the story is irrelevant because you’ve already seen a different story with it in it? Isn’t that literally more irrelevant than the alternative, given that it has little to do with the movie itself?

To put it gently, that’s something of a weird point of view from a storytelling point of view - and it’s not something most who make these movies is going to take seriously. It’s basically a criticism that goes beyond Watsonian and Doylist and into just being meta, and is only relevant to people who have had that experience. It’s a very good example of a situation that’s become more noticeable in recent years, where fans’ personal experience and preference is conflated with actual criticism.

Seriously, “we should never have a movie that depicts X event because I’ve already seen it” is kind of problematic logic, and comes from the same place as arguments like “they should never revisit plots that were in movies I enjoyed as a child.” What about younger or teenage fans who are neither aging, nor experienced, nor outside the target demographic?

It would have been a perfect set up to introduce Tim Drake, though I doubt Zack “Kill Off Jimmy Olson Cause I Can’t Think Of How To Use A Less Pessimistic Character” Snyder would have done it.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 14th 2020 at 10:34:55 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

Snyder would have killed him off to. Dude loves grimdark.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

I very rarely agree with windleopard, but I do in this case. Snyder is gone, he's likely not ever directing these characters again, and Batman has already been rebooted. It's done. We get it, he made some very questionable creative choices that a lot of fans disliked. But it's beating a dead horse at this point.

And I say that as someone who genuinely found BVS dreadful.

Edited by comicwriter on Feb 14th 2020 at 10:53:54 AM

For most characters, I would agree with you, but Batman has entered into the public consciousness in ways that not many other characters have. Everyone knows his origin story. Hell, go to a foreign country, ask someone there who Batman is, and they will probably tell you about how his parents were killed in an alleyway, that's how pervasive Batman and his origin is.

The argument for "we don't need to see this scene" isn't that it can never be told again, it's that it's been told way too many times, enough so that seeing another version of it would just be repetitive unless they do something completely new.

It's in every version. It's become ingrained into the public consciousness. As I said just do what Btas did and not show it but show that it did affect him.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

Doesn't Burton's Batman pull a fake out with the Wayne killing by having it seem like they're the family about to be attacked only to reveal it's actually a different family? And that was before any of the films showed the death of the Waynes. Point being, if it was already iconic enough in the public consciousness then, then it doesn't need to be hammered in more now.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 14th 2020 at 11:40:18 AM

Saw the pictures that goes around Twitter showing the bat in the new suit is made out of a gun. It's pure nonsense imo.

There's a metalic bit protuding that people interpret as a handgun hammer, but if that's what it's meant to be, that has to be the most unergonomic gun ever. Not to mention that the shapes of the bat are too wide to be made out of the reciever of any type of handgun.

Maybe if Joe Chill gunned down the waynes with a submachinegun.

I wasn't talking about the consistency of any one story, but that the argument of "showing the murder scene in detail is important for this film's story" seems odd to apply only to Snyder's film, because to me at least that implied the murder scene was superflous in the previous Batman films, which is definitely not the case. The reason I said it's irrelevant is because it doesn't really have any impact on whether viewers are tired of seeing that scene recreated in detail in every Batman film series. Your point about newer or unfamiliar potential viewers is fair enough but I should point out that this is hardly a new or foreign idea. As early as BTAS, the team behind that show already felt that showing Batman's origin in detail wasn't particularly necessary since everyone was already familiar with it.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Feb 14th 2020 at 5:20:35 AM

I honestly thought the chest thing was a batarang.

I get that to a degree, I’m just saying that as a rebuttal to “this scene is in the film specifically because it’s meant to contrast with a later scene in the story,” that doesn’t really work - it doesn’t even really apply. It’s one of the reasons universals shouldn’t always be applied in to all specific cases.

I personally the film’s actual use of that contrast was loss poor, but that argument still isn’t great, and I wouldn’t want it applied to a work that works the same principle in a better way.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Feb 14th 2020 at 6:40:34 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

My thought for the chest-symbol, as I recall, was that it might be a drone of some sort; something that he could remove, set flying, and have scan a scene/trail a suspect/photograph evidence, etc.

My Games & Writing

Kind of like, uh, Spider-Man's chest symbol in Homecoming.

"Alfred, initiate Enhanced Interrogation Mode."

*Christian Bale voice activates*

Speaking of which I'm wondering how Pattinson is going to handle the "Batman" voice or if he will make much of an effort to differentiate it from how Bruce Wayne normally speaks. I hope he doesn't exaggerate it like Christian Bale did; while watching the movies it didn't bother me too much, but I agree it's a bit over-the-top.

> *Christian Bale voice activates*

due to a glitch it activates Adam West mode instead!

New theme music also a box

I will say that despite my issues with the direction for Affleck-Bats, the voice filter was actually a pretty decent way to obscure his voice and making it sound intimidating without being comical.

Yeah, the voice filter was a great move for Batffleck, to the point that it seems so obvious that I don't know if I'd want another Batman without it.

Yeah, Bale's Batman voice was silly, but Affleck's voice modulated one was pretty great. The only thing I'm worried about is if he uses all the time (instead of simply to instill fear in people), it could get silly.

Honestly, Bale's Batman voice wasn't that bad in Batman Begins. It was more of a harsh whisper in that film, outside of the scenes where he's deliberately intimidating someone. It was in The Dark Knight that the voice started to become a lot more gravely and loud, even when the scene didn't call for it.

“WHERE IS THE TRIGGER, WHERE IS IT!!!!!

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 14th 2020 at 4:24:42 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Bale's Batman voice in Begins was partially because he was either screaming at criminals or whispering at people from the shadows. When he started having longer, philosophical conversations it highlighted how unnatural it was, especially when he was also out of breath.

A cool sound design bit for Affleck's Batman was that when his helmet was smashed in the Superman fight, you can hear the modulator malfunction, shorting out and having a delayed echo.

WHERE'S RACHEL?!

New theme music also a box

Yeah, I gotta give credit to Affleck, and sound team for making the voice distortion sound good without being too distracting.

And because I'm horribly immature:

First Oscar the Joker, now Cookie Batman, what's next, Big Bird Penguin?