Misused (alt names crowner 9/8/19): Drink Order

^ FWIW, there is an alias Trademark Favorite Drink for tropers who don't feel like listing beverages under food.

we used it abundantly in the wick check. perhaps it should be made a little clearer on Trademark Favorite Food that it also covers drinks, though; the page mentions specific drinks, but it doesn't explicitly say anywhere that "this trope also covers drinks". the intro specifically seems to leave them out, in fact.

Yeah, that'll curb some of the misuse, I think.

So far everyone but ~naturalironist seems to agree with making this Characterization Drink, right?

I prefer Drink-Based Characterization, and I'm not the only one who likes that name. I think we need a crowner.

Sorry for the double post, but I tried to make a Single Proposition crowner for whether this should be renamed, and it isn't working; all attempts take me to a test crowner. Do we need to have a mod look into it?

Note to mods: Feel free to ignore the holler for this post. As mentioned in the below post, crowners aren't working at the moment, but I didn't know that at the time.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 12th 2019 at 1:21:55 PM

...right. I forgot. Crowners are broken at the moment.

I must have missed that news, then.

Found out at Image Pickin'.

So...yeah. I guess we can chill on this for a bit, unless Naturalironist comes back to continue the debate from last page.

i thought everyone was in agreement on Drink-Based Characterization, the impression i got from last page was that everyone liked that name. i don't think we need a crowner, but if you guys think we should wait until it's fixed im ok with that.

Yeah, I guess I forgot which title was popular (and didn't bother to check). We're not all in agreement, though.

The reason I wanted to make a crowner is because I'm not sure if we have enough votes. I think ten is usually the minimum for TRS consensus.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 12th 2019 at 5:31:47 AM

A crowner will also help decide if we should cut/move some of the description or not.

In that case, I think Page Action would be more useful than Single Proposition (to include options for both renaming and modifying the description).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 12th 2019 at 5:34:22 AM

I will back off on the argument I was making, but if this is no longer about the action of ordering a drink at a bar, what separates this from Trademark Favorite Drink?

I would argue that a character loving a particular food or drink always says something about the character. It seems to me that in the wick check the criteria for misuse is whether or not the meaning of the drink is analyzed. That seems to me an example context issue, not a definitions issue.

I don't think it was ever about the act of ordering a drink, just what the drink says about the person.

I don't see Trademark Favorite Food as being inherently characterizing, it's just more of a way of fleshing out a character by saying "and they also really love cake". It gives them a little depth, shows they have interests that may not be relevant to the plot but are relevant to who they are. Those foods (and drinks) may not reflect on their personality, more than I'd say it's part of their personality.

Drink Order, meanwhile, is using drinks as a way of analyzing personality, with the character ordering a drink that reflects the way they act. It may not be their favorite drink, and it may never happen again, but in the moment it shows who they are as person.

Tl;dr: One is a facet of who the character is, one is a representation of who the character is. At least, that's how I see it.

...and yes, in the wick check we assumed context-lacking examples misuse, because honestly if an example can't explain the meaning behind the drink it's easy to assume there's no meaning at all.

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 12th 2019 at 8:50:23 AM

Jay said what id say if id gotten here first.

Trademark Favorite Food is one of those tropes that attracts ZCEs, because it seems self explanatory. even "character likes X" is no-context, really. it's better to describe a few occasions where they eat it. Drink Order ZCEs are indistinguishable from Trademark Favorite Food ZCEs and as such count as misuse.

Made a crowner since they're working again.

Crowner hooked.

I forgot to include an option for trimming the description during the time crowners were broken. We might need to start from scratch with a Page Action crowner.

Edit: Made one.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 24th 2019 at 7:45:59 AM

Crowner unhooked and other crowner hooked.

Thank you. Sorry about the mix-up.

Rewriting the description has unanimous support (7 yeas and no nays) and renaming is nearly unanimous (7 yeas and 1 nay), but neither has enough votes to call.

Yeah, let's give them more time.