Fire Emblem Three Houses (Spoiler Thread)

In the sence of lore or development trivia?

That doesn’t really matter since the point was about size and the Seven Kingdoms are actually twice the size of Fodlan.

If you want to cut cut the North and Iron Islands off from the rest of Westeros, that’s the size of Fodlan

Edited by MadSkillz on Apr 26th 2024 at 1:36:11 AM

I own several hundred dollars' worth of miniatures from the A Song of Ice and Fire: Tabletop Miniatures Game and have gone on several a Wiki Walk here but I honestly haven't read any of the books or seen much of the show.

Westeros would fall in a month or so to a Fodlan campaign though.

Yes.

At least you know it's not called Game of Thrones

Edited by VampireBuddha on Apr 26th 2024 at 10:53:37 AM

x2 Nope it takes months just to travel from one location to the next. And there is magic capable of fighting people in Fodlan in ways they wouldn’t expect.

The God of Light makes Fire Zombies, reviving the dead(but said person horrifically changing since death changes a person), numerous people receiving prophetic but useless ass cryptic dreams, The Ice Zombies of the Others(said Zombies are super weak to fire though) and the Others ride giant Ice Spiders, a ancient mage with better time travel cheats than Byleth who uses magic tied to a race of people who lived in the Forests of Westeros, people able to enter the bodies of animals to haunt/spy on people/kill them, etc.

GRRM was all about having supernatural forces existing but they don’t revolve around dragons outside of the God of Light and Valyrian magic tying them to dragons(their magic is Blood Magic too). Though whether Gods exist is a different story, but magic and faith do result in things happening.

And that’s the stuff thats mostly relevant to Westeros. There’s Lovecratian Gods, numerous human subspecies like Giants who ride wooly mammoths in the north of Westeros, etc.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Apr 26th 2024 at 7:34:51 AM

If we go by Game of Thrones, then Westeros has teleporting armies, invisible navies, cruise missle ballistae, and whatever mind-control magic that Cersei used used to take control of the kingdom after her last son took a walk off the top of a tower.

Yup. Said Cruise Missile Ballistae also become useless the moment someone goes mad because the show has spent the entire season gaslighting said person to go insane until they did cause of THE BELLS. THE BELLS.

Reminds me I forgot to mention Dragons in ASOIAF also never stop growing so by the time they die of old age they’ve easily surpassed human castles in size.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Apr 26th 2024 at 7:39:01 AM

I don’t know why Westeros being one kingdom is so hard to believe.

It is explicitly because it was forced to be one via imperialism. It was originally seven different kingdoms. Then a few dragon riders thought they should make it all one kingdom with one throne. And since they had the flying nukes, they were able to eventually pull it off.

After centuries of this being the status quo, the Seven Kingdoms mostly accepted this and figured independence wasn’t worth a war. Until the events of the books anyway.

Edited by M84 on Apr 26th 2024 at 11:02:59 PM

Heck it was literally the WMD that are the Dragons along with Valyrian descended people already in Westeros who helped to make the Imperialism easier for Aegon, with some of the Kingdoms they were fighting turned on their leaders to not get cooked by Dragon.Along with the theory that a prophetic dream about the Others/Whitewalkers and the Prince that was Promised that would face them(Nvm the implication there might even be THREE chosen ones thus why Dany has three dragons). House of the Dragon leaning into the Aegon receiving prophetic visions..

Like the North knelt because they aren’t crazy to think they could fight Dragons and win.

It took centuries before Dorne was ever part of the Seven despite it going by Seven Kingdoms way before that point, and it was through political AND romantic marriages, with some of the Valyrians taking after their culture. Every attempt to conquer them ended in mocking failure because Dorne refused to be made part of the Seven by force.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Apr 26th 2024 at 10:38:54 AM

I recently read another book that dealt with imperialism, and the hero delivered this very quotable line:

Ah, the GRRM and/or ASOIAF debates resurface… Lovely tidings, this.

For what it’s worth, the most infeasible thing Martin committed to IMO is how over eight millennia, the whole of a large landmass like Westeros have apparently had no linguistic drift between regions beyond having different versions of names (Robert=Robb=Robbett, etc.) Granted, this is a needed convention of Medieval-styled fantasy as we don’t want the storyline to stutter while people are playing charades to understand each other, plus we get plenty of Conlang that’s either explicit or implicit in the story, but… well, there’s a reason Aliens Speaking English is common in Trapped in Another World stories even if The Chosen One ain’t a thing you’re trying for here.

Between us, does anyone else think Houses could have used a couple more years in the proverbial oven? I actually admire the writers’ commitment to No Golden Ending this beast; hell, I believe a storyline with branching narratives could still have multiple outcomes that vary in “goodness”, while still having Mutually Exclusive Party Members and Plotline Death based on your decisions (with an actual difference in final act unlike TO for instance)… but that’s off-topic.

Anyway…! The War Phase has always felt undercooked to me, particularly with how much setup WC has for the breadth of the setting; until Hopes expanded the names and the actual lands, it felt paradoxically small like only the big people mattered. I miss when FE actually gave the depth to its worlds; the GBA era and Tellius seemed to be where this peaked, where even if we didn’t see the entire world map every country felt large and lived-in, and you didn’t just jump to the big places…

I dunno, rambling a little there; it just felt as if they squandered a potentially deeper story in favour of cutting corners; even with my little knowledge of progress, I know from earlier titles they could have done more, given us unique WC chapters based on route or bigger divergences… And not copped out in giving Rhea an interesting Fatal Flaw that feels like it only came up when Edelgard was the MC, so she’s Right for the Wrong Reasons and doesn’t have to question her foe’s “humanity” easily my biggest peeve with CF)!

I would say the multi-year seasons are less plausible than the lack of linguistic divergence.

But to your actual point, I mostly agree. Another problem is that the three countries don't really feel different. Sure, we're told that Faerghus has a strong martial tradition, Adrestian is big on magic, and Leicester does archery, but each class gives us a rider, an archer, a tank, a healer, a mage, and a light infantry person. There is variation between individual characters, but each class uses largely the same tactics.

Compare that to Fates. For all that game's flaws, Hoshido and Nohr actually feel different. Hoshido doesn't use heavy armour at all and their only cavalry class is for advanced ninjas, while Nohr uses armour a fair bit and has extensive cavalry. Nohr also relies more on brute force and debuffing the enemy, whereas Hoshido is more about speed, healing, and buffing allies. Moreover, Hoshido gets most (all?) of the single-weapon classes, while Nohr has more mulri-weapons. The result is that, even if you use DLC to counter Conquest's dearth of gold and XP, both armies still play differently, and the combined force in Revelations feels different again.

Edited by VampireBuddha on Apr 30th 2024 at 1:11:36 PM

Also Faerghus is the only country with a famed school of Sorcery to the point nobles go there from other countries, NOT Adrestia.

The War Phase overall does feel undercooked compared to Part 1.

Statistically speaking, the Academy Phase has around 60% of the total cutscenes of the game as well as 2 extra story chapters in Blue Lions / Golden Deer. And from the exploration side of things, even the amount of quests you get falls off by Part 2, leading the few that are present become more or less routine. From a development and content standpoint, the timeskip just did not get the same amount of love Part 1 got.

Another delay + proper budget would've probably helped, but that also came with the catch it would've scrambled IS' plans for both this game, AND for Byleth being into the game that was meant to come out in 2020 as an anniversary title.

To answer your first question... Yes and no? Previous entries and heck, even Engage could have done far more with the worldbuilding than 3H. As things stand though, this game (& Three Hopes) did a heck ton to flesh out its world in spite of its limitations and cut corners (and overall it's up there along with Jugdral, Tellius and, to a lesser extent, Archanea), so one can only wonder how much things could be improved in the future with none of 3H's handicaps in the devs' way. The writers just need to... step up and do their thing honestly.

As for the Rhea stuff... Silver Snow's template laid a one-in-a-million chance for the story to take a fun twist and the writers just ran with it budget issues be damned, so I'm super grateful for what we got. That, and the game's heavy on the tragedy & perspectives so Rhea's being radically framed in a bad light is just par for the course honestly (also, I take CF's moody Rhea over SB Rhea anytime).

EDIT: And while I agree with the idea the nations aren't visually distinct enough compared to Fates & Engage, at the same time, it doesn't really feel that was ever really the aim with anyone besides the Agarthans (whom by comparison would've beneffited greatly by going bonkers with their generic mooks looking futuristic and tron-like as heck).

Edited by Blackress on Apr 30th 2024 at 6:34:50 AM

The SS tragedy is something I get was intended, I just think it was shoddy In presentation and execution. In particular, it really hammers how withholding information in a Story Branching game (especially if Word of God states outright that we weren’t meant to play them all) is tricky; it suffers in parallel ways to CF, and not just in how details are inconsistent or how symbolism beats up your established magic rules (again, not a problem in most FE games… but 3H sets up these rules far more than most FE games did)

I’d take CF!Rhea too, but the fact I’m supposed to use that to say Edie Was Right unironically (even disregarding other routes) feels gross and worse — lazy. The lack of Demonic Beast reinforcements I don’t mind, but what’s even the point of her main adversary just going crazy and her using that as affirmation that she’s right in her goals? Was someone high when they wrote that dreck, and did nobody else proofread it…?

Ahem! As I’ve argued years ago, Edelgard in AM is at her best as an antagonist because of the Unknown Rival element that comes in until the ending; that route’s strength being it shows both it’s hero and villain at their worst, just that the hero pulls back which is why Dimitri morally triumphs here (and while I don’t hate late-AG as much as most folks, it’s definitely weaker for lack of a strong antagonist…)

Now, with the hindsight of SB/GW in my rear view window, I kind of wish they did something more like the latter’s Rhea for CF, and that VW had instead positioned us against Rhea and the Empire… Friendly reminder, I’ve suggested previously that Byleth not be merged with Sothis and that Kronya be Spared by the Adaptation; both of these, coupled with Claude’s own dubious qualities could have made his route perhaps the most interesting of the game.

But, alas; much as I may wish otherwise, this is all just hot air and not substantive to the actual 3H experience. Shame, that…

I agree. I didn't find the Silver Snow twist to be fun so much as confusing, which could have been remedied by the rest of the campaign not just being worse Verdant Wind. There was zero setup for the scenario, and then Seteth gives a weird, half-assed "we're totally not a cult with blood rituals" info dump at the start of the map. Best Endgame track in the game, though.

That's an oversimplification of things though. There's a ton of factors involved that push the idea that Edelgard, in the context of Crimson Flower (meaning it only applies to this route), is right:

• The story establishes by Chapter 5 that Edelgard has issues with the Crests Rhea upholds and supports. The player deciding to side with Edelgard thus leads to the side effect of the story adopting this worldview.
• CF's plot has Rhea caught off guard with more or less her worst case scenario (Byleth rebelling against her) at literally the worst possible moment (after Edelgard's raid in the Holy Tomb, which host the bodies of Rhea's kin unbeknownst to everyone but herself), so her response is very understandable and human within context. The thing is, not only people are not privy to the full picture of this event without context from Verdant Wind, Edelgard also seizes Rhea's moment of weakness and twists it on her favor by saying more or less "Rhea is a monster in every sense of the word: both in looks AND actions." Rhea then later saying stuff like this does little to help her case:

  Rhea: So you have sullied yourself by joining the rebels? I hope you came prepared to breathe your last.

  Rhea: You are all damned, with no hope of salvation. For the sin of insurgency, you shall be consigned to hell!

• From Chapter 4 onwards, the plot pushes the notion Rhea did something to Byleth and that she has a plan of sorts for them, which is consistently treated as a potentially bad thing to the point it's revealed Jeralt ditched Rhea the moment he found out she was witholding information from him (and to twist the knife further, the fact he happens to be killed off as soon he starts to doubt his past judgement of Rhea kills whatever chance she had to salvage her reputation in Part 1).
• And lastly, there's the whole stuff Rhea does at the very end of the story where she burns Fhirdiad because 1. She does not want to do the smart thing and retreat like Catherine suggests; and 2. She is beyond livid at that point due to her biggest nightmare knocking at her door. Her sudden shift for the worst is even highligted by Edelgard mentioning Rhea evacuated her people the last time her home was invaded, thus making clear Rhea has finally lost all her marbles and ultimately leads to Byleth and Edelgard killing her rather than just arresting her like originally planned.

Perspective is everything in Three Houses, and as far I'm concerned, the route gives you far more that puts Rhea in a bad light that just "she's a dragon", even if that plays a role in the rethoric Edelgard uses to paint herself in the right.

EDIT: Got not much else to say other than the twist in SS being dumb too.

Edited by Blackress on Apr 30th 2024 at 1:23:08 AM

I'm certainly glad that Engage did a pretty good job in making their four countries feel distinct from each other, especially in the visual department.

Years after playing Three Houses, I definitely feel like in terms of worldbuilding, it isn't really all that better or worse than any of the other games in the series. Sure, it loads a bunch of historical details to flesh out the world, but some of the details they do put in just feel like background noise at times. It's not bad background noise, but I didn't really think it did that much to add to the worldbuilding.

I'm of the opinion that there isn't one way to have good worldbuilding, since good worldbuilding just means that you created a world that people want to immerse themselves into. There are a couple games that don't have as many details as Three Houses does but still make me feel like their worldbuilding is just as good, if not better, due to utilizing other methods to make their world more immersive.

I'm at least glad Three Houses was able to add those details into the game, at least. I still remember Shadows of Valentia having a LOT of extra details that was only in the artbook, a lot of which I wished was in the game itself because they make for a fascinating read.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Apr 30th 2024 at 1:50:24 AM

if the writers didn't want to say that Rhea is a subhuman monstrosity of pure evil, they shouldn't - or perhaps wouldn't - have made a route where the person who says Rhea is a subhuman monstrosity of pure evil is vindicated at every turn.

I think people take too narrow of a view of what constitutes world building. It's not just about saying that baron so-and-so rules this particular section of a map. Geography, economy, religion, and even things like clothing styles and food are also parts of world building.

Visual worldbuilding is awesome, but it's also great when the world is fleshed out far more beyond just designs and architecture (I'm looking at you, Fates' Valla).

And that perspective applies ONLY to Crimson Flower, because if you go to the other routes you're told/shown that Rhea:

• Is some important lady that turned into a dragon one day (Azure Moon).
• A very suspicious woman with a ton of juicy secrets she doesn't wanna share that turns out to be a genocide victim (Verdant Wind).
• A suspicious woman that ultimately meant well and is unable to move on from the past that you're forced to beat up anyway because drama (Silver Snow).

Not too surprising; a lot of people often take a very narrow view of what constitutes as "good writing" (which often just boils down to personal preferences, unsurprisingly) and world building is just another facet of that.

It's definitely not a bad thing that different people have different standards of what makes a story good for them; it's just a pity that some people can be rather unpleasant when dealing with others with differing opinions.

Ultimately, there are many ways to approach world building, and everyone is going to have their own personal preferences on what makes a world immersive to them. Some want a lot of historical details, other people want striking visuals, etc. That's one of the things I like about creative writing; there are so many ways to approach things, especially when you factor in how different mediums allow for different approaches.

I definitely think Three Houses does better than other Fire Emblem games when it comes to adding historical details about the world, but it doesn't do quite as well in other aspects. That's why I don't really consider it to be any better or worse than any of the other Fire Emblem games I've played; the other games might not have had as many details as Three Houses did, but I didn't think they needed those details to be immersive and enjoyable.

Heck, for all I wished that Shadows of Valentia could have incorporated its artbook details into the actual game, I don't think their absence really hurts the game at all, since what the game does provide still makes for an interesting world.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Apr 30th 2024 at 2:28:44 AM

@dragon You’re forgetting one thing. That’s because Fodlan is meant to be one country that was artificially divided in 3 by TWSITD. They’re more similar than they’re different which plays into what Edelgard, Claude and the writers think that this place should be one country again.

Eylos is not meant to be one place and have never been a unified country from what I remember.

On top of that, Fodlan tries to be a bit more realistic with its designs even if it can be colorful at times whereas Engage is full fantasy down to the designs and having characters like Hortensia in a candy cane clown outfit.

Edited by MadSkillz on Apr 30th 2024 at 5:20:05 AM

And as a reader who appreciates storytelling for exploring perspective, I dislike when a story unironically validates narrow-minded worldviews. So what CF was going for is inherently anathema to good storytelling IMO.

And don’t get me ranting on how shallow Valla was; it killed ‘’Revelation'' for me to go through that boring slog of a “country”. Sure I wish FE would go more in-depth but… Valla has little depth at all.

So, the conspiracies about puppet masters who are undermining our society are… correct!? In other words, Nationalism is Good? Yayyyy… Since when does geography conform to our subjective ideology of “borders”, anyway?

Screw the writing and its Unification bulls*it. I get enough flak from my own parents for not agreeing with their view that Kosovo is Serbian territory… don’t need or want it here.

See my addendum, here.

Edited by CaellachTigerEye on Apr 30th 2024 at 10:36:13 PM

The thing is, every route in some way or form has a narrow minded view because none provides the player the full context of what's going on and why. For better or worse, that's the ugly side of Three Houses refusing to have a "canon" ending, so the best one can do is pick a route and stick with your poison, more or less.