Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker (spoilers obviously)

I think I'm fine with that if because I feel that Star Wars needs to start getting away from "end of everything" stakes. It's a big galaxy, there's a lot of planets, and a compelling story can be made out of trying to save a small population of people simply for the sake of their own lives, as opposed to "guess what, in this movie the bad guys built 400 Death Stars, and these can blow up galaxies!" The escalation is getting too high to top. Also because the first film in a trilogy generally benefits from being mostly self-contained to set the stage.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 19th 2020 at 1:11:18 AM

Star Wars Super

Rey is going to fight the embodiment of the Dark Side and if they lock lightsabers more than three times the universe will break.

The problem is that the prequels explicitly were set up to answer the questions "How did Anakin become Darth Vader?" and "How did the Republic get replaced with the Empire?"

I agree there's a place for Star Wars stories that aren't connected to the big over-arching narrative and that are smaller in scale. But the prequels were never designed to be telling those stories.

I think that fits in with The Phantom Menace's theme of small things snowballing into larger. Qui-Gon runs into an unimportant boy with great mechanical skills, and he ends up becoming one of the most feared killers the galaxy has ever known. Padme calls for a vote in an attempt to save an obscure planet, and it ends up setting the stage for Palpatine's rise as Emperor of the galaxy. An random repair droid becomes witness for the biggest wars across the planets. It's even in the title, easily missed things coalescing into something greater.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 19th 2020 at 1:24:38 AM

I think the worst part of The Phantom Menace was that they tried to scientifically explain the Force when it seems like a more spiritual thing almost everywhere else in the franchise.

The scientific explanation honestly doesn't bother me that much. Rey has all her power because she's the granddaughter of one of the most powerful Force users ever. Same with Luke. Genetics were always part of the conversation, people just weren't paying attention.

In fact, I kind of want to see a situation where a Force user is genetically engineered. Like, play around with the maxi-chlorian idea from Darth Plagueis: For example, a maxi-chlorian, when introduced into an embryo, acts like a beacon for the mother's midi-chlorians, which are drawn from her blood into the developing baby's, making the baby Force Sensitive, but the mother a void in the Force. However, because all life needs the Force, the disconnection from the Force kills an ordinary woman well before birth because they don't have as much in reserve. So, Jedi mothers are sought out, because they can survive the process. Make it like a Republic mad science project they thought up when they were trying to replace losses from the Clone Wars, and its data was spirited away by the early Rebellion, with only a few babies ever born this way. Make one of the new Jedi born this way, while still emphasizing that this sort of process is wrong because it unduly harms the mother.

Edited by CrimsonZephyr on Jan 19th 2020 at 5:14:38 AM

An Evilutionary Biologist Dark sider who tries to create the most powerful force user in existence would be an interesting idea.

Isn’t that one of the vague explanations for Anakin?

I think with Luke in the OT days it was never claimed that his ability was exceptional because of Anakin or that Anakin was in a league beyond all the Jedi. At most it was implied with Obi-Wan and Yoda keeping tabs on the other Skywalker, Leia, for their purposes.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 19th 2020 at 2:31:44 AM

Well considering rey is superpowered due to being palps granddaughter. The super genetics is know what where going with.

From what I remember from the Plagueis novel, Anakin was conceived by the Force in response to Plagueis himself fucking around with it.

I’ve always felt people point to the wrong things when talking about midichlorians. The problem wasn’t science, it was exposition. The story actually introduces minichlorians just fine as an explanation for why force scouters exist early on.

The thing that people hate is the scene later where Qui-Gon stops the plot to go into a long scene explaining everything about how they work, which is what gives the implication of Doing In the Wizard.

But TPM has a big problem with needless exposition in general. It’s also the thing people are actually bothered by when they blame “politics.” It wasn’t the story framing the conflict through a political situation, it was the long and uninteresting way that situation was shoveled directly to us at length, vs telling it through through the story.

And it accomplished that just fine without needing to rush the escalation of the story.

Both the PT and the OT use a classic film trilogy format (the OT arguably codified it), which goes like:

• One smaller scale, largely self contained story that sets up the universe’s status quo.
• A second film that veers the status quo in a new dramatic direction and leads directly into the third.
• A third film that continues directly (narratively, at least) after the second, and builds everything to a bigger conclusion.

This somewhat matches the three act structure, though it’s not entirely due to wanting to match that structure (the first film in a trilogy is risky, hence being more self contained in case the story doesn’t work out).

But regardless of why, this works. Rushing the entire trilogy’s plot points into the first film often runs the risk of pushing aside the actual plot to fish for sequels.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 19th 2020 at 5:36:20 AM

The PT had the problem of pushing like two or so movies worth of plot on the last movie instead.

I think Kylo Ren is one of the best parts of the Sequels, because he continues themes from the Prequels.

Part of the prequels subversive undertones, was that Anakin becoming Vader wasn't seen as cool or badass. Anakin becoming Vader was just sad and pitiable. And Vader afterwards was a miserable wreck

Kylo is essentially someone who didn't really understand what the actual Darth Vader was like, a lonely miserable pathetic wreck. And in trying too emulate and be like his grandfather, he succeeds. He just didn't know what his grandfather was really like.

TPM's problem is Anakin is introduced halfway through the Film and he is only really the center for the Tatooine section... as him being part of the Naboo attack is ludacris. and Anakin just doesn't have a character that gonna be a natural growth into the next film since well He is an innocent Child. TPM is to show the moment the fall begins cause this one incident, The Naboo Crisis is gonna be what spirals out of control and creates the Clone wars.

Ao T Cs essentially has to reintroduce Anakin and set up his romance and fall arc by cramming two movies worth of development into one. Strictly cause GL was convinced that the scene of anakin being forced to leave his mother behind was too important not to have in the movie. The PT would have been alot stronger if Anakin was already Qui-gon's Padawan along with Obi-wan from the start. Ao T Cs problem is its the one trying to cram two movies into one.

The PT doesn't try to out escalate the OT cause the PT has ways around it, Namely the Clone Wars and the fact that you have two relatively EVEN sides that can slug it out, so you can a Galaxy spanning conflict that is just brutal. OT rebels had to pick and choose their battles and relieved on being clever. ROTJ is one of the few times the Rebels are forced to stand and fight. since Battle of Hoth was a curbstomp and While the Battle of Yavin was a great victory the Rebels only had three surviving pilots from the attempt.

AOTC barely managed to handle one characterization for Anakin, let alone had to shoulder two.

I’m not sure where the idea that AOTC had to do TPM character work for it comes from. If nothing else, the characters in TPM were pretty solidly characterized. The only character who I’d say comes off is weak is Maul, sadly for Ray Park.

Also, AOTC reintroduced characters not because they were forced to, but because they chose to give the story a time skip: as Tobias would say, that’s not a bug, that’s a feature.

If anything, it’s ROTS that has to undo AOTC’s poor characterizations (especially where Anakin’s is concerned, what with AOTC attempting to rebrand him as a bland, Obviously Evil whiner), albeit while undoing some of the ones the previous movies actually did well (Padme).

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 19th 2020 at 8:50:14 AM

Yeah, if there is ever another animated series, one between TPM and AotC would be good, one that shows how and why Anakin Took a Level in Jerkass so much.

I’ll assume it’s a combo of a terrible time growing up at the Jedi temple & Obi-Wan not being the best mentor.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 19th 2020 at 9:38:18 AM

TPM is, basically, there to be toyetic first, I feel like. Crazy aliens, cool robots, space race cars, Young Anakin himself, who is in the whole "all-powerful little kid" mold that was all the rage after Home Alone, Padme and her bottomless wardrobe to sell Barbies to girls, etc.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Jan 19th 2020 at 11:39:57 AM

Chafing under the rules of the Jedi monastery, having trouble seeing Obi-Wan as a worthy mentor as opposed to an older brother figure, Obi-Wan himself having trouble seeing himself as a worthy mentor, the pressure that comes with being The Chosen One, certain senior Jedi like Mace Windu never really accepting him, missing his mother and Padme, Palpatine feeding his ego...

There were a lot of reasons one can think of for why Anakin was so unstable.

Edited by M84 on Jan 20th 2020 at 1:46:16 AM

You know, it occurs to me that AOTC drops the ball on Obi-Wan and Anakin a second time.

By using Qui Gon and leaving Obi-Wan on the ship much of the movie, Phantom Menace squandered opportunities for Anakin and Obi-Wan to form a bond.

And then AOTC starts after a time skip where Obi-Wan and Anakin have offscreened a relationship but the two spend most of the movie in separate plot lines with only a few nods at what their normal relationship is like and how close they supposedly are.

And considering that one of the enormous emotional beats of ROTS is Obi-Wan and Anakin's fights, its not great that two movies drop the ball on establishing this relationship thats going to so dramatically break by the end of the movie, making ROTS carry a lot of weight in that regard.

Well, that and any EU material you care to partake in between movies.

Edited by Bocaj on Jan 19th 2020 at 12:48:56 PM

Speaking of Mace Windu...it's kind of funny how consistent his relationship with Anakin is across all mediums. From the very start he never really liked Anakin and didn't want him in the Order. Even in the original Clone Wars cartoon he says stuff like "whether or not he is the Chosen One remains to be seen."

It's not a coincidence that Palpatine didn't make his play until the only senior Jedi on Coruscant was Mace Windu.

Edited by M84 on Jan 20th 2020 at 1:59:53 AM

Man, from how you mention it, he really is a lot like MCU Nick Fury in that way, being one of the few competent people in his field.

Mace isn't exactly a bad person but i feel he deserves a good part of the blame for the Jedi's fall. His aggression, hidebound conservatism, and habit of acting like a douche to the supposed messiah all end up playing right into Sheev's hands.

Mace is basically Good Is Not Nice deconstructed.

Edited by Forenperser on Jan 20th 2020 at 9:44:45 PM