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X5 PLUS X4 PLUS X3 PLUS X2 When I said it not a normal house I didn't mean it isn't where Kumoko lives or she didn't have emotions about the place or something like it's (my bad English is probably the source of the issue here sorry again), but even if it was that didn't give to Kumoko the right to kill the group.
X3 About the robber, if a robber tries to rob your house and you kill him when your life is in actual real danger, that most likely going to be could self-defense but if the robber ran from you (or you managed to neutralize him) and you chasing after him and kill him that most likely going to be could murder. And again it matters none what the group of the adventures/soldiers was tries to do or what was their original mission Kumoko was the one that started the fight and she kills (and tries to kill) someone that the best he can do was try to run anyway from her.
X4 That's information from the Light Novel (or the Web Novel) that the Anime cut this. And again I never deny that Kumoko do also goods things.
X4 About the Web Novel's D. gives Kumoko memories that explain things about the Earth society that's why Kumoko knows English and Japanese in the first place but not only that Kumoko also has some kind of knowledge about things like comics and video games. So it most unlikely that D. didn't give Kumoko memories about the bases laws of the human society plus Kumoko herself said few times things that prove that she knew what the human law is she just doesn't really respect the law.
X4 About the web that was burned thanks for the answer.
But why should she respect the law? If someone breaks into your house and tries to kill you, and you scare them off, you can report them to the police and hope (maybe) that the burglar will be punished. No one would try to protect a spider from being attacked; the only one Kumoko can rely on to protect herself is herself, and her reputation. And she DOES have a reputation later on - leave her alone, and she'll leave you alone. Don't attack her or the Nightmare Vestiges, and you'll be okay.
That's about as respectful as you can expect from a person who can't speak with humans and who is a spider.
It's been fun.
^^ Those memories don't mean anything to her. There is nothing in them that carries any emotional weight apart from wanting to eat nice things and play video games. It's like how I know that how older civilizations believed that people who were rude to guests deserved terrible things, up to and possibly including torture and death. I know these values exist, but I don't share them because I wasn't raised with them. She wasn't raised to believe such things, she just has some memories that other people hold certain values. And they're the memories of the cruelest person in the story, so it's not like D believes human life is worth anything either to give more impact.
A. Kumoko's extreme acts have nothing to do with creating a reputation Kumoko is just extremism in her personality, that's one reason that she created so much "collateral damage" when she attacks.
B. it's not about why should Kumoko respect the law, it's about the fact that she is aware of the law when you said she could be not aware of it. Spoilers from the Web Novel/Light Novel when you said that D. could not gives Kumoko memories about things like the meaning of the law.
C. I'm not going to deny that Kumoko has no one that she can ask for help but it's still not an excuse to murder someone in cold blood, especially when this person doesn't pose a threat to her.
D. can we just agree not to agree about this? I don't think I going to change your opinion and we don't really come with something new about this.
E. Spoilers from the Web Novel/Light Novel spoiler: Kumoko learns that she a spider in the Light Novel too not?
Edited by TURI12345 on Jul 9th 2021 at 8:20:39 AM
That's not cold blooded murder. You may think it's a petty distinction, but it's actually recognized by the law that not all extrajudicial killings carry equal weight.
No, the other one.
Yeah, I'll agree to disagree. There's no way I can agree that she was the one instigating that fight when they came down to kill her and burned down her home.
PLUS
Not every murder is a cold-blood murder we agree about this, but Kumoko kills the soldiers/adventurers is one.
Why will I think so?
Kumoko was in danger back then? I think we can agree she wasn't.
Kumoko could hide or just let the soldiers/adventurers run from her? She could do that and I think we all agree about it.
Kumoko attacks with fatal power first? Again I believe we can agree about this.
When the soldiers/adventurers try to run Kumoko tries to kill them? Yes*.
After Kumoko kills the soldiers/adventures does Kumoko feel actual regret about that she kill them? No (in the Anime at least).
Does Kumoko kill the soldiers/adventures because she needed to eat something and the was the only thing that she could eat at the moment? No.
And on top of that Spiders (on Earth at least) are poikilothermic Animals? Yes? so Kumoko is supposed to be "Cold-Blooded".
My point is even if we agree that Kumoko has good reason to be angry she doesn't need to kill the soldiers/adventurers.
About the Web Novel/Light Novel: Spoilers from the Web Novel/Light Novel that's not my point. My point is Kumoko needs to know at least things like kill humans (or something that has intelligence as human) considered as a bad thing to do.
- Ok Kumoko marked them but it still doesn't change my point.
P.S. How can I change the time zone in TV Tropes?
Edited by TURI12345 on Jul 10th 2021 at 7:37:35 AM
I thought you said you wanted to drop this. That's why I didn't really respond.
I do, but I think I need to give an explanation of why I don't like/disagree with the kills of the soldiers/adventurers. Spoilers from the Web Novel/Light Novel And my meaning about the fake memories.
By the way, on another topic, how do you think this series going to ends? I mean the Web Novel and the Light Novel get different end as I understand from the discussion in the wiki of the series (So I'm a Spider, So What? Wiki Fandom). And besides, I don't think there is in here any end goal I mean nobody on the human side seem like they want to return to Earth, and the spider side doesn't really have an end goal that they can get Spoilers from the Web Novel/Light Novel: kill D. is also not an option and even if that was one there is also at least one (and who knows if there is more) that over her power like Meido. And even if the new world will survive I don't think we see here something win for one side that kills the other.
If you want to drop an argument, it's really not a good idea to bring it up again well after everyone else has moved on.
LN, I don't know. I don't care either. The LN basically ruined my two favorite character.
My guess for the WN is thatShun and Dustin actually beat Shiro, probably because Sophia is beaten by the dragon she's fighting or at least gets a double kill while Gyurie weakens Shiro enough for her to lose to Shun somehow. But then Shun realizes that Dustin's plan to fix everything is even worse than Shiro's and he has to be stopped. Shiro and Shun stop him and then I think they have to defeat D in some way. She's just too awful to get away with everything she's done and the story has been hinting that there's more to her than just eating popcorn and delighting in human suffering.
The story is currently acting like it's in the climax but there's just too many little bitty plot threads dangling for me to believe it.
No, the other one.
Whether she's biologically cold blooded is irrelevant, and it also equivocation, since it uses a different definition of the expression.
Now I just need to get this back onto my reading list. Maybe after Jingai Musume and FLFO.
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Spoilers from the Web/Light Novel: My main problem with this is there's the problem that how someone supposes to even hurts D. (I don't even start to talk about killing her)... the creator of this Web Novel doesn't look like someone that just does things without advanced preparation and we never even hear about something that can hurt her. About the last Arc, creators don't suppose to say when the series starts the "Last Arc"? Not that means something about how long the Arc will be so the last Arc could not end even after 200 chapters. By the way to you know when Kumoko talks with D. (face to face) in the Light Novel?
I thought we agree to leave this aside?
I have something to say against it but for now, let's just cut off this topic ok? But I do say the part about Kumoko cold-blooded biologically was a joke and not some kind of serious argument about things.
P.S. How did you quote me?
^^ Yes, that's basically right. "Cold blooded" murder is premeditated and not in the heat of the moment, which carries higher legal penalties, aka first degree murder. On the other end of things killing someone in a heated moment can be considered partially justified or excusable if it's a highly emotional moment, which can get the charge dropped to first degree manslaughter. I don't remember how exactly they decide if it's murder or first degree manslaughter but iirc one part of the criteria is if you have any time between the event and killing the person, even so much as walking into another room to get your gun, walking back and shooting.
^ Yeah, that's the question, isn't it? The odds are just so stacked against them actually managing to do so that it's like "How the hell would you even accomplish this?" Because it seems like the power difference between spider in a classroom and present day Shiro is about the same as present day Shiro and D. The idea that anyone could stand against her in a fight is kind of laughable. But I just don't think D gets away with everything and goes on her merry way consequence free.
As for the meetings with D, one is just after the fire dragon is killed and the other two that I remember are just after apotheosis and then Shiro just popping in for a visit. There are also things like the whole flashback mini arc and even the Q&A sections drop some hints about what kind of shit she's up to.
And quotes are done with [[quoteblock]]Text[[/quoteblock]]. It's a relic from the days of the old site admin who hated people being able to do convenient things on the forums. No, really, he genuinely just wanted to make it harder for people.
Edited by Arha on Jul 12th 2021 at 11:58:26 AM
I don't know the law in the USA but there are also other criteria to "Murder in the First" (at least in my country) like who was the victim and why he was murder or if he can defend himself or not.
Spoilers from the Web/Light Novel: Nope, I just wondering about it because D. also doesn't really have any weak point to use by the heroes or another way to compensate the balance of power plus there is also Meido that we don't know what she will do if D. will be in actual danger. About the meeting, I try to find the first time that Kumoko meets Meido (when Meido come to take back D. to do her work).
P.S. First thank you for the answers! Second why nobody changes it?
I don't think Meido would help her. None of D's coworkers, for lack of a better term, seem to actually like her at all. There are implications that D can't be killed so I don't expect her to straight up die, so I am curious as to how she would be really beaten.
The current admins are more hands off, from my understanding.
There's currently a discussion going on in the Kumo character page. People are free to weigh in if they'd like. There are some web novel post anime spoilers being thrown around, if that is of concern. If people don't wish to join the conversation, it has to do with folder organization. Basically, it's been decided to split the page and there are two suggestions.
The first suggestion (so far as I understand it) is to have four pages. One for the protagonist, one for the demons, one for the humans and then one for characters like Gyurie and so on for the last page. The second suggestion is to have one page for reincarnated people, one for natives of this world and then one for the Administrator characters like Gyurie. The crux of the argument largely boils down to whether we think the protagonist needs her own page to herself or whether it makes more sense to keep her with the characters more similar to her, meaning the reincarnated people.
If you don't wish to join in the discussion on the character page, I would also welcome simple input on which style of organization people prefer.
No, the other one.
So, been reading a little of the post-battle talks, so up to WN chapter 315-ish, I think? I've read a bit further way back when it was new, but I don't remember much. Still, this shouldn't be spoilers.
I forgot how hilariously hypocritical Kumoko is. And only self-aware of some of it. She's also so very hostile without meaning to. Unlike Sophia who does mean it.
I also keep mentally picturing Sophia as a certain useless vampire from Kemono Michi... Maybe because of how they're treated is so similar?
Anyway, I also read some comments from various places about it, and with that in mind, I still don't know why you'd want to make Kumoko more "relatable", since she's still the most popular character. And she's horrible by any reasonable standard. Sophia is also rather popular, and she's... equally horrible, but more deliberately so. So the question is, why take it away? It's not like it's made the human reincarnators any more popular, unless the Japanese fanbase is completely different.
I also find it funny that there are so many people who complain that Shun is so heroically hypocritical, when the biggest hypocrite of them all is Kumoko. I mean, I understand that it's funny when she does it, because it's in a relatively novel way, but when Shun does it, it's the same trite hero complex we've seen before so many times. Isekai stories in particular tend to deconstruct hero tropes like that. It's kinda like people are stuck in a Silly Rabbit, Idealism Is for Kids! mindset. Btw, as far as positive idealism goes, I'd recommend reading the manga ''Helck'.
The difference between Kumoko and Sophia is that the former is mostly an asshole accidentally.
No, the other one.
Except against Sophia. That's usually deliberate. And excessive.
But yeah, that's what I meant about her meaning it.
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It always feels like Sophia deserves it somehow, even when she hasn't done anything horrible for once.
No, the other one.
Well, I'd tag that to who the oh-so-reliable-and-impartial narrator is. But it's probably correct.
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X6 Thank you.
About Kumoko what she did this time? Said she doesn't go to attack and kills someone and yet attack and kills him?
By the way, why do you think this Light Novel/Web Novel (and others like him) is so popular I mean I saw a few Light Novel that if we compare them to "Kumo Desu Ga, Nani Ka?/So I'm a Spider, So What?" I think we could agree that they are more qualified than "Kumo Desu Ga, Nani Ka/So I'm a Spider, So What?" and yet they do not get the same level of popularity as "Kumo Desu Ga, Nani Ka?/So I'm a Spider, So What?".
No, the other one.
I'm not sure what you mean with the first part.
It's probably popular because it was one of the earlier isekai with a non-human protagonist. That on its own makes it stick out a bit. It helps a lot that her personality is... non-standard. She's got a type of gamer personality, about as restrained as a toxic Pv P voice-chat player, but without being an edgelord about it.
She's also not completely overpowered, so she has to work a lot for her victories. And, you know, to actually become overpowered. But there are still always people above her.
The world is built up more than most isekai, and it doesn't have some things for the sake of having them, like the typical adventurers' guild with ranks F to A or S where the protag always start at F regardless of overpoweredness. Then again, I've heard someone claim an isekai manga is "realistic and non-gamey" and it pretty much opened up with that. It's one of the most gamey parts there is, aside from stats and skills.
I don't think you should overuse the phrase, "I think we can agree," so much. For me it comes across as you trying to push your opinion onto others.
You say that "they" are more "qualified", but you don't qualify what "they" are, nor what you mean by "qualified". What do you mean by that?
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Offhand I can't think of any fantasy isekai I've read or watched that I think are better than Kumo Desu Ga. I mean, even the web novel that I much prefer to the light novel/anime definitely has some flaws, but the story has a lot of ambition and avoids a lot of cliches I dislike.
Edited by Arha on Jul 17th 2021 at 7:36:09 AM
I agree with Duck, yeah. Having a female main character in a "game"-based isekai, having the "game" aspects be something unnatural that was pushed onto an existing world by an evil god, and avoiding the usual pitfalls like a 3-5 girl harem, the adventurers' guild BS (it DOES exist, but only because D wanted it to), having a totally bland hero (or worse, one who's a rapist slaver)...
It DOES have its flaws, but it also has ambitions to tell a story that amount to more than the usual "time to write a revenge fic about a super handsome, nice salaryman who goes around literally shitting on Nakayama from Accounting and my bitch ex-girlfriend" crap that gets published nowadays.
It's been fun.
X3 Sorry, for that it's probably because of a bad translation to a way of expression from my native language, I don't try to say something like "my opinion is better than others" or something like it.
It's just a side effect of my bad English and the lack of words.
X3 About the story, I agree that the combination of female as the main character, a new body for most of the man's characters, gray ethics of the main characters, and protagonist that built herself until she came to ridiculous power level, are all when it came together in the story is unique but when we over each one separately we can find others Light Novel's that has that criteria I mean hero that built himself it's pretty not unique in Light Novel stories, gray/black ethics there is also Light Novel that uses this, female as the main character also, a new body that one of the things that make a lot of Isekai.
X3 About the part of the world I'm not was could myself a fan of Light Novel (although I do like few) but built the world of the characters it's not one of the basic things to create a good story?
Really? I think the Light Novels: "Hai to Gensou no Grimgar/Grimgar Ashes and Illusions" and "Rokka no Youusha/Rokka Braves of the Six Flowers" is more quality than "Kumo Desu Ga, Nani Ka?/So I'm a Spider, So What?".
