Needs Help: Characters.Marvel Cinematic Universe

The page for the MCU is currently divided into works as opposed to groups of characters. Earlier on in the setting, this was fairly easy to navigate through, but with the influx of movies and shows, things are starting to get out of hand. I propose that the page be restructured akin to what's been done with the character page for Star Wars and split characters up by the groups that they fall under.

I would present such a split as follows [NOTE - New readers, ignore this. Go with the format I set up in a follow-up post.]:

• Avengers
• Stark Industries
• The Nine Realms
• S.H.I.E.L.D.
  • Howling Commandos
  • S.S.R.
  • Team Coulson
  • Secret Warriors
• HYDRA
  • The Centipede Group
• The Defenders
• Citizens
  • Citizens Of New York
• Aliens
  • Guardians Of The Galaxy
  • Inhumans
• Criminals And Supervillains
• Others

edited 25th Apr '16 11:17:29 PM by KingClark

I agree, We really need to organise the character page more properly, get it more in line with other character pages!!!

If we do this, I would like to keep those nice notes tags that tell you who is in each section.

Where do you put characters who change category over the course of the franchise? Black Widow, for instance, starts out for S.H.I.E.L.D. but migrates to Avengers. This might get spoileriffic; for instance, categorizing Grant Ward under Team Coulson isn't accurate to his current position, but categorizing him under HYDRA is a spoiler.

I'm not sure where our spoiler policy stands on Character Page classifications.

edited 22nd Apr '16 11:50:46 AM by TobiasDrake

Ok

Grant Ward is HYDRA, while Black Widow is Avengers, simple!!!

Hmm. I think putting Black Widow (and Hawkeye) under Avengers is an easy call, since that's the group they're most popularly associated with. In general, all of the Avengers from The Avengers (2012) and Avengers: Age of Ultron should be categorized there. Their presence in the famous superhero group supersedes their other allegiances. Likewise, Iron Man would go there, and the Stark Industries page would link to it.

Grant Ward is a tougher case, but that is a Season 1 spoiler, and we're in Season 3 now.

I will have to say, the current TV ads for the series do not treat it as a spoiler at all.

That said, I don't like Aliens as a category. Especially since Star-Lord is in many ways the tolken human of the guardians even if he is half alien as we find out in the last five minutes of the film.

Also lumping the Inhumans in there is tricky because in a lot of ways they're from Earth, or at least they've been there so long they have no idea of space.

Also, Thor and the other Norse stuff are technically Aliens too.

edited 22nd Apr '16 5:32:59 PM by shimaspawn

Alright, with what people have pitched in so far, here are my ideas [bolded groups are finalized character rosters, and bolded and italicized groups have made the transition]:

• Avengers
  • Avengers Initiative [Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Hawkeye, and Black Widow.]
  • New Avengers [Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, The Vision, Falcon, and War Machine.]
  • Allies [Helen Cho, Winter Soldier, Ant-Man, Black Panther, and Spider-Man.]
• S.H.I.E.L.D.
  • Leadership [Nick Fury, Phil Coulson, Maria Hill, Alexander Pierce (REDIRECT - HYDRA), the World Security Council, and Victoria Hand.]
  • Operatives [Black Widow (REDIRECT - Avengers Initiative), Hawkeye (REDIRECT - Avengers Initiative), Agent 13, Crossbones (REDIRECT - HYDRA Operatives), Cameron Klein, Jasper Sitwell (REDIRECT - HYDRA Operatives), Felix Blake, Benny Pollack, Claire Wise, Streiten, Mack, Shaw, Richard Lumley, John Garrett (REDIRECT - The Centipede Group), Deathlok, the Koenigs, Idaho, Noelle Walters, Hank Thompson, Franklin Hall, and Sebastian Derik.]
  • Team Coulson [Phil Coulson (REDIRECT - S.H.I.E.L.D. Leadership), Quake (REDIRECT - Secret Warriors), Grant Ward (REDIRECT - HYDRA Leadership), Melinda May, Leopold Fitz, Jemma Simmons, Antoine Triplett, Lance Hunter, Alphonso Mackenzie, and Bobbi Morse.]
  • "Real" S.H.I.E.L.D. [Robert Gonzales, Anne Weaver, Isabelle Hartley, Tomas Calderon, and Oliver.]
  • Secret Warriors [Quake, Sparkplug, Joey Gutierrez, and Yo-Yo.]
  • S.S.R. [Peggy Carter, Howard Stark (REDIRECT - Stark Industries), Chester Phillips, Abraham Erskine, Lorraine, Daniel Sousa, Jack Thompson, Roger Dooley, Rose Roberts, Ray Krzeminski, Yauch, Mike Li, Rick Ramirez, and Aloysius Samberly.]
  • Howling Commandos [Captain America (REDIRECT - Avengers Initiative), Bucky Barnes (REDIRECT - Avengers Allies), Dum Dum Dugan, James Falsworth, Jacques Dernier, Jim Morita, Gabe Jones, Pinky Pinkerton, Happy Jones, and Junior Juniper.]
  • Allies [Ace Peterson, Hanna Hutchins, Audrey Nathan, Lian May, William May, Andrew Garner, and Thomas Ward.]
• HYDRA
  • Leadership [Red Skull, Arnim Zola, Wolfgang Von Strucker, Alexander Pierce, John Garrett (REDIRECT - The Centipede Group), Daniel Whitehall, Sunil Bakshi, List, Gideon Mallick, Stephanie Mallick, Grant Ward, Hive, Council, and Ancient Society.]
  • Operatives [Heinz Kruger, Winter Soldier (REDIRECT - Avengers Allies), Stern (REDIRECT - Government & Millitary), Jasper Sitwell, Mitchell Carson, Crossbones, Watchdogs, Agent 33, Kenneth Turgeon, Marcus Scarlotti, Toshiro Mori, Julien Beckers, Kebo, Werner von Strucker, Giyera, and Lucio.]
  • The Centipede Group [Grant Ward (REDIRECT - HYDRA Leadership), John Garrett, Deathlok (REDIRECT - S.H.I.E.L.D. Operatives), Edison Po, Ian Quinn, Akela Amador, Debbie, Brian Hayward, The Englishman, Kaminsky, and Raina (REDIRECT - Inhumans Afterlife).]
• Defenders [Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, and Iron Fist.]
  • Allies [Claire Temple, The Punisher, Elektra, Misty Knight, and Colleen Wing.]
  • The Chaste [Stick, Stone, Elektra (REDIRECT - Defenders Allies), Star, and Jacques Duchamps.]
• Gifted [Carl Creel, Deathlok (REDIRECT - S.H.I.E.L.D. Operatives), Chan Ho Yin, Donnie Gill, Marcus Daniels, Calvin Johnson, Karla Faye Gideon, David Angar, Wendell Levi, Francis Noche, Scarlet Witch (REDIRECT - New Avengers), and Quicksilver (REDIRECT - New Avengers).]
• Inhumans
  • Afterlife [Raina, Jiaying, Gordon, Lincoln Campbell (REDIRECT - Secret Warriors), Eva Belyakov, Katya Belyakov, and Alisha Whitley.]
  • Others [Joey Gutierrez (REDIRECT - Secret Warriors), Elena Rodríguez (REDIRECT - Secret Warriors), Hive (REDIRECT - HYDRA Leadership), Giyera (REDIRECT - HYDRA Operatives), Giyera (REDIRECT - HYDRA Operatives), and Lucio (REDIRECT - HYDRA Operatives).]
• Government & Military
  • Government [Stern, Matthew Ellis, Rodriguez, T'Chaka, Everett Ross, Vernon Masters (REDIRECT - Council Of Nine), Rosalind Price, Luther Banks, Glenn Talbot, and Camilla Reyes.]
  • Military [War Machine (REDIRECT - New Avengers), Falcon (REDIRECT - New Avengers), Emil Blonsky, Thunderbolt Ross, Michael Carter, and Fred Wells.]
• Citizens
  • New York [Samuel Sterns, Foggy Nelson, Karen Page, Elena Cardenas, Brett Mahoney, Blake & Hoffman, Corbin, Samantha Reyes, Blake Tower, Marci Stahl, Melvin Potter, Father Lantom, Colonel Schoonover, Marlene Fisk, Bill Fisk, Jack Murdock, Josie, Ben Urich, Mitchell Ellison, Caldwell, Hope Schlotmann, Bob & Barbara Schlotmann, Audrey Eastman, Malcolm Ducasse, Robyn, Ruben, Trish Walker, Dorothy Walker, Jeri Hogarth, Pam, Oscar Clemmons, Will Simpson, Wendy Ross-Hogarth, Reva Connors, and Rafael Scarfe.]
  • California [Hank Pym, Janet Van Dyne, Hope Van Dyne, Luis, Dave, Kurt, Maggie, Paxton, Cassie, Gale, and Dale.]
  • Others [Christine Everheart, Ho Yinsen, Harley Keener, Betty Ross, Leonard Samson, Jane Foster, Erik Selvig, Darcy Lewis, Ian Boothby, The Barton Family, Angie Martinelli, Miriam Fry, Violet, Colleen O'Brien, Albert Thompson, Louise Thompson, and Koslov.]
• Companies
  • Stark Industries [Iron Man (REDIRECT - Avengers Initiative), Pepper Potts, Obidiah Stane, Happy Hogan, J.A.R.V.I.S., Howard Stark, F.R.I.D.A.Y., Hulkbuster, Edwin Jarvis, Ana Jarvis, Jason Wilkes, and Anton Vanko.]
  • Hammer Advanced Weapons Systems [Whiplash and Justin Hammer.]
  • Advanced Idea Mechanics [Aldrich Killian, Maya Hansen, Eric Savin, Ellen Brandt, and Fake Mandarin.]
• Criminals
  • Ten Rings [Raza, Abu Bakaar, Jackson Norriss, and Real Mandarin.]
  • Leviathan [Madame B., Johann Fennhoff, Dottie Underwood, Leet Brannis, Sasha Demidov, Eva, Anya, and Black Widow (REDIRECT - Avengers Initiative).]
  • Council Of Nine [Whitney Frost, Calvin Chadwick, Hugh Jones, Tom Gloucester, Mortimer Hayes, Rufus Hunt, and Vernon Masters.]
  • Fisk Crime Ring [Wilson Fisk, Vanessa Marianna, James Wesley, Benjamin Donovan, Leland Owlsley, Madame Gao, Nobu Yoshioka (REDIRECT - The Hand), Anatoly & Vladimir Ranskahov, Sergei, Francis, Turk Barrett, John Healy, Randolph Cherryh, and Parish Landman.]
  • The Hand [Nobu Yoshioka, Hirochi, Stan Gibson, Tyler, and Black Sky.]
  • Other Criminals [Helmut Zemo, Georges Batroc, Ultron, Ulysses Klaue, Yellowjacket, Ernst Mueller, Joseph Manfredi, "Nonna" Manfredi, Jerome Zandow, Otto Mink, Finn, Nesbitt, Grotto, Turk Barrett, The Blacksmith (REDIRECT - Government & Military), Dutton, Don Rigoletto, Silvio, Prohashka, Kilgrave, Cottonmouth, Mariah Dillard, Shades, and Miles Lydon.]
• Cosmic
  • Asgardians [Thor, Loki (REDIRECT - Nine Realms), Odin, Frigga, Heimdall, Destroyer, Borson, Sif, Fandral, Hogun, Volstagg, Elliot Randolph, and Lorelei.]
  • Nine Realms [Loki, Laufey, Malekith, and Kurse.]
  • Guardians Of The Galaxy [Star-Lord, Gamora, Drax, Rocket, and Groot.]
  • Nova Corps [Irani Rael, Rhomann Dey, and Garthan Saal.]
  • Ravagers [Yondu, Kraglin, and Horuz.]
  • Thanos's Forces [Thanos, The Other, The Chituari, Ronan, Nebula, and Korath.]
  • Others [The Collector, Carina, The Broker, Bereet, Moloka Dar, G.H., Vin-Tak, and Will Daniels.]
• Others [Stan Lee, Bernard Stark, Antony, Nick Fury's SUV, Lola, Alex Manor, Howard The Duck, and the Infinity Stones.]

Bear in mind that not all of the sub-bullets I bring up here are necessarily going to respond to their own pages, but sub-headings (to wit, something like Avengers Initiative versus New Avengers could be included on one page for the time being).

I changed "Aliens" to "Cosmic", as that's technically the better descriptor. Inhumans should probably get their own section free of any sub-division due to how many of them there are. (That being said, it ought to be interesting if the conspiracy that Kevin Feige is not going to follow up on the promise of an Inhumans movie with the recent "delay" in mind. The movie was allegedly mandated by his former boss, Ike Perlmutter, in order to allow the production of Feige's passion projects Black Panther and Captain Marvel, and since Feige got more power, it could mean that we won't see the Inhuman Royal Family on-screen for a long, long time. But I digress...)

For sake of convenience, I think it's best to list characters where they "currently" are in the setting. Howard Stark should go under Stark Industries in spite of his involvement with S.H.I.E.L.D./S.S.R. because that's where his story ends. (Redirects are useful to this end.)

Keeping the tagged list of characters is also a must, as is keeping the characters listed in the tags up to date (as that's something that the Star Wars page hasn't always kept up with regarding minor characters).

Lastly, Bucky and Winter Soldier's character pages need to be merged. No sense in keeping them separate at this point. Likewise, the Blacksmith should be merged with Schoonover, but spoilered accordingly.

edited 1st May '16 8:26:00 PM by KingClark

I like it.

Put people where they're most appropriate. Not by where they started. After a point that becomes Late-Arrival Spoiler, and we shouldn't sacrifice organization for people who aren't up to date.

Looks good to me.

Since a lot of characters move around organizations, don't forget to put notes pointing readers in the right direction on pages.

For example, Hive is an Inhuman, but it's far more associated with HYDRA, so it's on the HYDRA page. But it should still have a folder on the Inhumans page pointing to the HYDRA page.

I'll do that right now for the ones I can think of, but keep it in mind.

EDIT: There's also the question of how spoilers work. The pages for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. has all spoilers out in the open for the first two seasons (we're on season 3), all movies that came out before the series, and Winter Soldier (most of the other movies just aren't relevant). How will that work when mixing them up with the rest of the MCU's pages?

edited 23rd Apr '16 8:52:26 PM by Discar

Post a warning on the top about unmarked spoilers and just strip them all. It's hard to do spoilers for a multiwork thing like this and have them consistent.

everyone seems to be on the same page here. do we even need a crowner or should we start the cleanup?

I remember trying to do this a long time ago, but it was shot down. So I will support this as well.

I think we're good, but maybe wait until a mod okays it before starting. I know shima has given implicit approval, but let's wait for explicit.

Do the thing.

If we do a complete spoiler-strip, I think it should just apply to every work made before Phase 3. Spoilers for JJ S1, AC S2, AOS S3, and DD S2 should remain up, though.

I'll concern myself with actually making the pages before making all the redirects from the other works. But first, I'll have to update the list I made.

edited 24th Apr '16 9:55:19 PM by KingClark

Before Phase 3 makes sense as a cutoff.

Lump Centipede Group with HYDRA, as they're an extension of the organisation, and split it into something like Leadership, Operatives, Centipede Group, & Other.

As long as it's done in a way that someone can find a character even if they don't watch everything, I can get behind a reorganization.

That's why I want to keep the notes on the main landing page that say who is in each section without opening it.

And, just so we're clear, that's what I'm trying to establish with the tags that are in the updated version of my previous draft. I'm probably more than halfway done on it at this point.

I'm new here (not to the website itself, just as a member), so my opinion might not matter, but I support this.

You and everyone else in the thread, but thanks for the support nonetheless.

• Phase 1: Finish the organizational outline.
• Phase 2: Create new pages based on the outline, shift the characters over accordingly.
• Phase 3: Redirect all the work links to the MCU page.

Alright, so the Avengers categories are mostly done. All that needs to be done for it is to merge the Bucky Barnes entry with Winter Soldier and remove the spoiler tags from everything prior to CACW.

I'm still working on Phase 1, though (I need to organize all the Inhumans, HYDRA, and AOS's Miscellaneous Antagonists) - so don't get started on Phase 2 beyond what I've already done.

edited 25th Apr '16 11:18:28 PM by KingClark