A thread for discussing representation and diversity in all kinds of media. This covers creators and casting decisions as well as characters and in-universe discussions.
Historical works and decisions are in-scope as well, not just recent news.
Please put any spoilers behind tags and clearly state which work(s) they apply to.
This week, producer Ross Putnam started a Twitter account called "femscriptintros
", where he puts up examples of how women are introduced in the screenplays he's read. And nearly all of sound like terrible porn or are too concerned with emphasizing said lady is beautiful despite whatever traits she may have. Here's a Take Two podcast made today where he talks about it.
(Edited April 19 2024 to add mod pinned post)
Edited by Mrph1 on Apr 19th 2024 at 11:45:51 AM
Trans Siberian Anarchestra (it/they)
Oh, I suppose it's unsurprising that that was Twitter's apparent expectation.
The Revolution Will Not Be Tropeable
Foreign Troper
Yeah I also posted this in the Politics and Media thread.
I kinda get what they are going for, but it looks extremely cringe.
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
I personally did think it was gonna be a Harry Potter thing at first.
The font on the title card threw me off.
Please remember that criticism of the moderation is unwelcome and should not be done in view of others.
For now all that can be done is wait and see if this movie will be able to deconstruct the trope or fall flat on its face.
Define "deconstruct." It seems more like it satirizing it.
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![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Satirize is probably the better choice of words. In any event, the trailer does show the protagonist being forced to sacrifice his time and his love life in order to please the white guy he's assigned to and the latter part does hint that he's about to rebel against the Society.
As I've said in Politics and Media:
While I haven't seen the trailer, the premise sounds like something that'd work in a sketch comedy rather than a feature-length movie.
As satire, the premise can work as a sort of ironic meta-joke. In essence, the joke would be "gosh, this premise sure is dumb!" followed the actual insight of "gee, it sure is dumb that many films basically do this".
This works in a short sketch because the sketch ends before the ironic humor wears thin and you're stuck with an actually-bad-premise, and the point you're trying to make really doesn't take that much time to make.
Edited by Protagonist506 on Dec 19th 2023 at 2:34:22 AM
"Any campaign world where an orc samurai can leap off a landcruiser to fight a herd of Bulbasaurs will always have my vote of confidence"
Marvel’s ‘What If…?’ Writers Reveal the Biggest ‘What If?’ of All[[/quoteblock
So far Kahhori doesn't yet have a comic book equivalent so this episode is going to be interesting to see where it goes. Hopefully she makes it big and migrates to the comics like Dreamer from DC. No word yet though on who is her voice actress.
Edited by KRider on Dec 19th 2023 at 3:55:13 AM
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
Regarding the American Society of Magical Negros movie, I have a series of predictions, in descending order of seriousness:
- (Serious) The movie ends with the reveal that Lizzie is a member of the American Society of Manic Pixie Dream Girls, and she's been going through the same arc Aren is, in terms of being assigned to help Jason and falling for Aren.
- (Semi-Joking) Then there's a twist that Jason is a member of the American Society of White Saviors, and he was assigned to make Aren jealous and stand up for himself.
- (Joking) Thus leading into the the TV Tropes Cinematic Universe, culminating in a massive crossover film where all the Societies need to work together to defeat the American Society of Complete Monsters, a conflict orchestrated by the American Society of Magnificent Bastards.
I found a movie about the Chinese clashes between western and eastern values. It starts Akwafina and it seems she nailed the serious role of a grandaughter who wants to tell her Grandma she has few time left.
Discord: Waido X 255#1372 If you cant contact me on TV Tropes do it here.
Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy
Oh yeah, that movie's really good.
Awkwafina is actually a legitimately good actress, she just tends to get pigeonholed in the same kinda role.
Not Three Laws compliant.
Very nice film, we have a work page btw: The Farewell.
I just saw Awkwafina's new movie Quiz Lady (might start a page on it). Not a masterpiece, but I thought it was funny and quite touching.
On the diversity front, kind of interesting in that like a lot of Asian American movies, it explores troubled relationships with parents, but unlike the recent "trend", there's no apology from the parents and it's just about a close and supportive sibling relationship.
I also saw some analysis that diagnosed Awkwafina's character as realistically autistic. Which seems appropriate because I definitely got a sense that the movie took significant inspiration from Rain Man, which has a much-criticized depiction of autism.
Trailer for Love Lies Bleeding, an upcoming movie produced by A24, directed by Rose Glass and starring Kristen Stewart who plays a gym employee who falls in love w/ a bisexual bodybuilder played by Katy O'Brian amidst some criminal occurences in their town.
EDIT: am I posting it right? I entered it this way [[ youtube: link here ]] and the link inside is supposed to be https://youtu.be/BF_J3-DmiS0?si=52WF_f4j3cswhxPM
In any event, here's the teaser pic before the trailer was released:
And here's an article about the movie that's also set to premiere at the Sundance Film Festival 2024.
Edited by KRider on Dec 20th 2023 at 6:47:01 AM
I can see two stumbling blocks for Kahhori from her start.
First, the character is set in 1600, while most heroes live in the present day, so either you keep her a period piece, and those can be successful but still less integrated into their universes than the rest of characters (think Jonah Hex) or they move her into her/the future, which kinda takes from the basic premise anyway (again, think of Hex, but when they flung him hundreds of years forward). But this isn't so bad, it can be worked out.
Second and most important, having the character CHANGE REALITY AS A WHOLE in her debut is kind of opening too strong, usually debuting characters are better off starting low and building up from there. After you RESHAPE REALITY in your debut, how much further up can you go from there? And you know the 'Mary Sue' pointed fingers are already in the way... it all will depend on the execution, but it's hard to imagine someone in their first appearance already 'earning' a cosmic universe altering device without it feeling forced, in the span of a single episode (not even a movie lenght) while at the same time properly setting them up and making audiences care about them. It is... daunting. I don't know if I could ever do it, if they can, major kudos!
You dont have to "earn" superpowers, especially when they're a plot device that has been part of the MCU since phase 1.
Pretending that characters (especially minorities) have to jump through some vague hoops in order to "earn" their powers/training/victories is silly and leads to all sorts of tortured and bad writing.
Superman can sneeze hard enough to destroy moons, and he didnt have to "earn" it.
It's the same twisted thinking that leads people to act like Captain Marvel is "OP" just because she happened to be a newer, and female, character who is the "strongest" Avenger.
Edited by ArthurEld on Dec 19th 2023 at 6:08:52 AM
It doesn't have anything to do with being a minority, and Superman didn't start moving planets, at first he couldn't even fly. Batman wasn't a 'batgod' with everything prepared ahead of time when he first appeared, he was just a guy with no sidekick, a normal car, some fight training, and a costume.
Even Thanos didn't debut with the Infinity Gauntlet attached to his arm.
The point is, a storybreaking power being handed over to the character as soon as the character debuts is a... challenging premise and it takes A LOT of talent to pull off. Alan Moore could do it with Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen, but Moore had the advantage of having twelve chapters to flesh Manhattan and the story he was costarring in at hand.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but the writers better have balanced this very carefully.
It's the Tesseract, it's very set up already. Its like...the single oldest MCU item of power there is.
All that needs to get established is who the character is and why she makes the choices she makes with the tesseract.
Lies and Violence!
Wait, where are we getting that she's capable of changing reality? The only thing that seems to indicate that is the episode title, and that's a massive stretch. "Reshaping the world" seems more indicative that she'll have a big impact on her timeline, not that she'll literally reshape existence to her whims.
It sounds like she makes a space portal and then has to deal with aliens.
Which is...pretty tame as far as What Ifs go.
'What If' and 'Elseworlds' are where big bombastic changes exist. And there's a multiverse so she could be part of that type of crossover.
I haven't really watched What-If but I may check it out for that episode.
@Krider you don't put the whole link in the code just the end section after "watch?v=" in this case "BF_J3-DmiS0" like so:
Edited by dcutter2 on Dec 20th 2023 at 2:38:23 PM
Ok thanks.
Mainly looking at the top impressions on Twitter and such reacting to the trailer. It might’ve also been because the first teaser wasn’t very clear on what the movie would be about, so most viewers assumed the title was a joke on the trope rather than actually about the trope.