Follow TV Tropes

Following

Official China Discussion Thread

Go To

unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#1777: Feb 26th 2020 at 11:32:57 PM

" the couch is covered with stains of unknown origin and has springs poking out"

Probably he take it put to pay the other guy who ask money.

"the fridge is empty save for old potato salad that is developing sentient mold"

Which it probably use the money he send it.

" the electricity is out"

Dont worry, it will return...in 5 hours....maybe.

in that moment china probably figure out that venezuela is a good parner as the kims.

you know how china feel about them.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#1779: Feb 27th 2020 at 12:31:54 AM

Procuring body armor isn't honestly a headliner. The US Army must also regularly purchase the same amount.

The PLA may as well be preparing to crush domestic unrest if the virus provokes anything.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#1780: Feb 27th 2020 at 6:16:48 AM

Yeah they dont have to be climer denier, they just have to prioritize short term gains over the long ones that climate preservation gives.

Yes, which is why cooperation is important. So we can pressure them to lower their carbon emissions and move away from non-Green energy, they're going to meet their energy needs one way or another, we should make sure that they do it in a way that doesn't make Climate Change worse.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1782: Feb 28th 2020 at 11:04:49 PM

Tl:dr; the Hubei officials are being scapegoated to keep Beijing and Xinnie from being blamed.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Kayeka Since: Dec, 2009
#1783: Feb 28th 2020 at 11:42:46 PM

Isn't that the exact sort of thing that made the Wuhan officials try to sweep the outbreak under the rug in the first place?

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1784: Feb 29th 2020 at 12:58:19 AM

Yes. Yes it is.

Disgusted, but not surprised
shitest1084 Since: Oct, 2018
#1785: Feb 29th 2020 at 2:08:25 AM

China solicits public opinions on foreigners' permanent residence rules

It seems that this proposed bill to expand permanent residence has caused a backlash on Weibo.

This post for example used France as an example of immigrants "destroying" the native race, saying that they don't want a nation where black and white people rule over the native Chinese.

Edited by shitest1084 on Feb 29th 2020 at 6:13:28 PM

fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
#1786: Feb 29th 2020 at 5:19:57 AM

Han supremacy and white supremacy are becoming increasingly exchangeable.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#1787: Feb 29th 2020 at 5:26:49 AM

Tl:dr; the Hubei officials are being scapegoated to keep Beijing and Xinnie from being blamed.

Did they suppress knowledge of the virus or not?

If they did then punishing their senior officials makes perfect sense, frankly it seems like you're starting off with the assumption that it's automatically the worst thing possible and then trying to make the facts fit your narrative.

Which is... not really intellectually rigorous.

Considering that at minimum the Wuhan local government dropped the ball on this, I'd say that it's encouraging that the central government is reining them in.

Han supremacy and white supremacy are becoming increasingly exchangeable.

Unsurprising, after all, they're both supremacist ideologies and thus have more overlap than not.

Though, this does support a hypothesis I've supported. That the actions of China government in regards to Ughyurs is not just intentional policy on the part of the CCP but also something that likely has public support, similar to how Russia has both a government that's homophobic and a populace that is similarly bigoted.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 29th 2020 at 5:28:19 AM

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#1788: Feb 29th 2020 at 5:28:14 AM

[up][up]Han supremacy is an ugly, ugly thing. It's still at a stage where they don't even try to pretend they don't think of black people as monkeys.

That has made Chinese business expanding into Africa...awkward to say the least.

[up]Can it with the assumption that I'm not talking in good faith here.

Edited by M84 on Feb 29th 2020 at 9:31:45 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#1789: Feb 29th 2020 at 6:58:36 AM

[up][up]

If you have a system in which officials are browbeaten into putting their skin and the party’s reputation over public wellbeing, then it’s not just the fault of the officers but also of the system itself, or would you argue that Chernobyl was not the fault of the Soviet system?

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#1790: Feb 29th 2020 at 7:09:15 AM

Can it with the assumption that I'm not talking in good faith here.

The problem isn't that you're operating in bad faith, it's that you automatically interpret all evidence in the worst possible light.

We know for a fact that at minimum the Wuhan government dropped the ball if they didn't outright lie. Should the central government do nothing? Punishing the local government and moving to tighten central control is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

If you have a system in which officials are browbeaten into putting their skin and the party’s reputation over public wellbeing, then it’s not just the fault of the officers but also of the system itself, or would you argue that Chernobyl was not the fault of the Soviet system?

It doesn't have to be one or the other, individual behavior can be the product of both systemic factors and individual flaws. In fact, it usually is.

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
eagleoftheninth Cringe but free from the Street without Joy Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Cringe but free
#1791: Feb 29th 2020 at 7:09:47 AM

Oh, but the cover-up absolutely comes from the top. China's National Health Commission sent out a notice on January 3rd ordering all institutions holding the virus samples to stop publishing their data without authorisation and either destroy or turn in their samples to the government.

Echoing hymn of my fellow passerine | Art blog (under construction)
Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#1792: Feb 29th 2020 at 7:14:18 AM

Reading it, if I'm not mistaken the official that told him to destroy the samples was from the Health Commission of the Hubei Province.

A source from a gene sequencing company revealed that on January 1, 2020, he received a phone call from an official of the Health and Health Commission of Hubei Province, informing him that samples of cases of new coronary pneumonia in Wuhan were submitted for inspection and could not be re-examined; existing case samples It must be destroyed, sample information cannot be disclosed, and related papers and related data cannot be released to the public. "If you detect it in the future, you must report to us."

so doesn't this support my position? That the local government lied and thus are correctly being reined in?

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Feb 29th 2020 at 7:17:15 AM

"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#1793: Feb 29th 2020 at 7:21:23 AM

They lied because the "reins" involve being put inside a wooden box with a hole in their head.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#1794: Feb 29th 2020 at 7:22:26 AM

It comes down to why they lied, if they lied because the central government would have punished them for telling the truth, then the central government doesn’t have leg to stand on punishing them for lying.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#1795: Feb 29th 2020 at 7:24:57 AM

Is a Asshole vs Asshole situation where both sides quite much suck. This is the issue with the whole "HARSH ON CORRUPTION, KILL ALL CORRUPTS" mindset, that doesn't erase corruption or incompetence, it just incentivates people to lie harder for fear of their lives

Watch me destroying my country
SteamKnight Since: Jun, 2018
#1796: Feb 29th 2020 at 9:00:12 AM

Seriously, I don't expect to see someone defend Beijing for their handling of the entire Coronavirus outbreak mess in this forum.

Dr. Li try to issue the first warning about the Coronavirus outbreak and he was quickly silenced. Of course, one can argue it's the sole fault of the local Wuhan government and Beijing somehow know nothing about it until it's too late. They're able to censure a lot of news about Dr. Li until it is too much for them, though, unless one want to argue that the local Wuhan government alone had such influence over the MIIT.

Then, Zhong Nanshan claimed the virus isn't originated in China and no one in the government try to silent him. Of course, one could argue that he is so powerful unlike Dr. Li, so the government can't touch him, but that is silly. So, it means the government accept his bullshit narrative.

So, either the top government of an authoritarian nation nonetheless is unable to keep track of the actions of its local governments and keep them under control, which mean it's incompetent mess or they know and support those local governments until they fail and then the top dogs sacrifice the local governments in order to keep their own power and pride intact, which mean it's heartless powermonger.

None of it sound defensible to me to be honest.

Defending Beijing is just an exercise of frustration since most of the times they have no problem proving their detractors are right. I mean I thought the news about them forcing Uyghur families to accept government officials spending nights with them are too much. I mean it is like an Onion article. But, that news turned out to be true, so well...

I'm not as witty as I think I am. It's a scientifically-proven fact.
eagleoftheninth Cringe but free from the Street without Joy Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Cringe but free
#1797: Mar 1st 2020 at 1:27:39 AM

[up] This, plus the NHC notice I quoted earlier. Remember that it took a week after that for CCTV to announce the discovery of the virus, despite the samples having been sequenced by several labs across China by the end of December.

Uyghur detainees from the Xinjiang camps have been transferred to work at factories across China, including suppliers of international brands such as Nike.

LAIXI, China — The workers in standard-issue blue jackets stitch and glue and press together about 8 million pairs of Nikes each year at Qingdao Taekwang Shoes Co., a Nike supplier for more than 30 years and one of the American brand's largest factories.

They churn out pair after pair of Shox, with their springy shock absorbers in the heels, and the signature Air Max, plus seven other lines of sports shoes.

But hundreds of these workers did not choose to be here: They are ethnic Uighurs from China’s western Xinjiang region, sent here by local authorities in groups of 50 to toil far from home.

After intense international criticism of the Communist Party’s campaign to forcibly assimilate the mostly Muslim Uighur minority by detaining more than a million people in reeducation camps, party officials said last year that most have “graduated” and been released.

But there is new evidence to show that the Chinese authorities are moving Uighurs into government-directed labor around the country as part of the central government’s “Xinjiang Aid” initiative. For the party, this would help meet its poverty-alleviation goals but also allow it to further control the Uighur population and break familial bonds.

“We can walk around, but we can’t go back [to Xinjiang] on our own,” said one Uighur woman in broken Mandarin as she browsed the street stalls at the factory gate on a recent afternoon. Nervous about being seen talking to a reporter, she quickly scurried away.

When their shifts end, the Uighur workers — almost all women in their 20s or younger — use hand gestures and rudimentary Mandarin to buy dried fruit, socks and sanitary pads at the stalls. Then they walk around the corner, past the factory’s police station — adorned with Uighur writing telling them to “stay loyal to the party” and “have clear-cut discipline” — to dormitories where they live under constant supervision.

The Uighur workers are afraid or unable to interact with anyone in this town, north of Qingdao, beyond the most superficial of transactions at the stalls or in local stores, vendors say. But the catalyst for their arrival here is well understood.

“Everyone knows they didn’t come here of their own free will. They were brought here,” said one fruit-seller as she set up her stall. “The Uighurs had to come because they didn’t have an option. The government sent them here,” another vendor told The Washington Post.

The Post did not ask for their names, out of concern for their safety and so they could discuss an issue that is highly sensitive in China. (While visiting Laixi, this Post reporter was surrounded by seven police officers, questioned, and ordered to leave town.)

The Taekwang factory is one of many where Uighurs are working “under conditions that strongly suggest forced labor” to make goods for more than 80 established global brands, according to a forthcoming report from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, a Canberra-based think tank.

“The Chinese government is now exporting the punitive culture and ethos of Xinjiang’s ‘reeducation camps’ to factories across China,” said Vicky Xiuzhong Xu, the study’s lead author. In some cases, they found evidence that Uighurs were transferred directly from internment camps to factories.

“For the Chinese state, the goal is to ‘sinicize’ the Uighurs; for local governments, private brokers and factories, they get a sum of money per head in these labor transfers,” Xu said.

Asked about Uighur workers in the factory, Nike said that “we respect human rights in our extended value chain, and always strive to conduct business ethically and responsibly.”

“We are committed to upholding international labor standards globally,” said Nike spokeswoman Sandra Carreon-John, adding that its suppliers are “strictly prohibited from using any type of prison, forced, bonded or indentured labor.”

Kim Jae-min, chief executive of Taekwang, the factory’s South Korean parent company, said about 600 Uighurs were among 7,100 workers at the plant. Nike’s manufacturing map shows that the factory has 4,095 employees, of whom 3,445 are “line workers.”

'Listen to the party's words'

The ASPI report conservatively estimates that more than 80,000 Uighurs were transferred from Xinjiang to work in factories across China between 2017 and 2019. This figure is consistent with reporting from China’s state broadcaster, which said in November that the Xinjiang government wanted to transfer out 100,000 “surplus laborers” between 2018 and 2020.

Sending young Uighurs away to work can change their mind-set by “distancing them from religiously extreme views and educating them,” said one local government report.

Xinjiang’s Turkic language-speaking, mostly Muslim Uighurs have much more in common with the cultures of central Asia than with China’s Mandarin-speaking Han majority, and have long chafed at Beijing’s oppressive rule.

By the party’s own count, tens of thousands of Uighurs have been sent to Guangdong and Fujian provinces in the south, and to Zhejiang, Anhui and Shandong in the east.

State media reports have described “poor farmers and herdsmen” sent to enterprises inside and outside Xinjiang, portraying them as grateful. “We will feel the party’s favor, listen to the party’s words and follow the party wherever and whenever we go,” a 20-year-old called Zulinar Idris was quoted as saying.

An industry of middlemen has cropped up to facilitate the dispatch of Uighurs, touting “semi-military-style management” and “government management with police stationed at factories.”

In its report, ASPI said it had found evidence that Uighurs were being exploited and that foreign and Chinese companies were involved, possibly unknowingly, in human rights abuses.

The researchers found 27 factories in nine Chinese provinces that have used Uighur workers hired through labor transfer programs from Xinjiang since 2017. The factories are owned by firms that feed into the supply chain of some of the world’s best-known companies, including Apple, Dell and Volkswagen, the report finds.

BOE Technology Group, which supplies screens to Apple, and O-Film, which makes iPhone cameras, both use Uighur labor, either directly or through contractors, the report found. Apple lists both companies on its latest supplier list.

Apple said that it has strict requirements for suppliers.

“Apple is dedicated to ensuring that everyone in our supply chain is treated with the dignity and respect they deserve,” said spokesman Josh Rosenstock. “We have not seen this report but we work closely with all our suppliers to ensure our high standards are upheld.”

Volkswagen spokesman Nikolas Thorke said that “none of the mentioned supplier companies are currently a direct supplier of Volkswagen.”

“We are committed to our responsibility in all areas of our business where we hold direct authority,” he said.

Dell said it would look into the report’s findings. “Though our current supplier audit data show no evidence of forced labor in our supply chain, we take all allegations of this nature seriously and will investigate fully,” said spokeswoman Lauren Lee.

While ASPI could not categorically confirm that the labor was forced, their report said there was clear evidence of “highly disturbing coercive labor practices” that was consistent with the International Labour Organization’s definition of forced labor.

Factory operates under 'national-level security standards'

At the front gate, the Taekwang factory looks like any other in China. Rows of long buildings sit behind a gate where three flags flutter: the company ensign and a Chinese flag, but also a South Korean one, reflecting the parent company’s home base.

Inside, the workers’ ideology and behavior are closely monitored. At a purpose-built “psychological dredging office,” officials from Taekwang’s local women’s federation conduct “heart-to-heart” talks and provide psychological consulting to encourage integration, according to photos of the offices published by state media.

Along the side, the facility resembles a prison. There are watchtowers with cameras pointed in all directions and barbed-wire fences atop the walls, which feature Communist Party propaganda posters extolling President Xi Jinping’s “China dream.” “All ethnicities are united as one family,” says one placard.

There is a special police station equipped with facial-recognition cameras and other high-tech surveillance that workers must pass through when they enter and exit the factory.

The Uighurs are segregated from the Han workers, both physically and by language, according to more than a dozen local merchants and workers who spoke to The Post about the situation inside the factory.

“They don’t speak Mandarin, and we never have any interaction. We just happen to work in the same factory,” said one middle-aged Han woman as she left work for the day.

“We have two cafeterias,” she said. “Chinese workers eat in one and Xinjiang workers go to a separate one. The Uighur workers are allowed to wander around near the compound, but have to return to their dorms later.”

The workers live under the watchful eye of their cadre manager in dormitory buildings opposite the police station.

They sometimes go to the one Muslim restaurant in town, often ordering steaming bowls of lamb noodle soup by pointing at the photos on the wall. Signs saying “halal” and other phrases in Arabic have been taped over, in line with orders from the authorities.

There is no mosque in the town or in the factory. Bitter Winter, a website devoted to religious freedom in China, has reported that the Uighur workers are not allowed to pray or read the Koran.

Instead, they must attend patriotic education and Mandarin classes at a training school called “Pomegranate Seeds,” the state-run publication China Ethnic News reported. The school is named after an edict from Xi, who said that “people of all ethnic groups should hold together like pomegranate seeds.”

Communist Party officials in Laixi have posted photos of the Uighur workers studying in the Taekwang factory’s Pomegranate Seeds school, and sitting in rows waving Chinese flags.

Security at the factory is tight. Factory administrators told a Post reporter this was a Nike requirement — Nike inspectors were visiting that day — but locals said it was also to monitor the Uighur workers.

“Some would say they use national-level security standards,” one of the street vendors said. “They keep a detailed account of the workers’ entries and exits, and they have to obey a strict schedule, coming to work or leaving the compound only at specific hours.”

Taekwang did not respond to questions about whether the Uighurs were forced to work in the factory under threat of reeducation, nor whether they could pray or observe religious practices while working at the factory.

The company provides “special food to our employees from Xinjiang” and “optional Mandarin language for non-Mandarin speakers, that will help ensure a positive work environment and job success,” said Kim, the chief executive.

For their part, top party officials are pleased with the efforts.

“By ‘encouraging’ ethnic minorities in Xinjiang to ‘interact and develop themselves,’” Wang Yang, who is leading the Xinjiang labor policies, said at a meeting in the Xinjiang city of Hotan, “China has immensely promoted the interaction and integration among different ethnicities.”

The ASPI report isn't out yet, but the lead writer Vicky Xiuzhong Xu is pretty tight with the Uyghur community in Australia and recently appeared on a SBS Q+A episode alongside Chinese diplomat Wang Xining, where the latter was confronted by some very pointed questions from members of the Uyghur diaspora.

Update: Aaand the report is out.

Edited by eagleoftheninth on Mar 1st 2020 at 5:15:35 AM

Echoing hymn of my fellow passerine | Art blog (under construction)
fruitpork Since: Oct, 2010
FluffyMcChicken My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare from where the floating lights gleam Since: Jun, 2014 Relationship Status: In another castle
My Hair Provides Affordable Healthcare
#1799: Mar 1st 2020 at 12:17:55 PM

But it's not slavery if they're being paid amirite? The article mentions that the "Xinjiang workers" are allowed to purchase food and groceries, so they're probably being paid a meager wage.

But of course, we must still cooperate with the CCP to fight climate change and the virus.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Shin Megami Tensei IV
#1800: Mar 1st 2020 at 1:31:01 PM

"But it's not slavery if they're being paid amirite?"

Depending of how we define slavery, that is totally true. Said this, I wouldn't be surprised if the paid was literally just the bare minimul to stay alive and sometimes even less.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Mar 1st 2020 at 4:31:12 AM

Watch me destroying my country

Total posts: 5,304
Top