Magic appears in a tech setting, what are the consequences?

I'm writing a story that takes place on a high-tech planet (Terra 102). Magic exists in the universe, but none of it on the planet, and thus almost nobody on the planet believes in magic.

The backstory is about godlike Arcane beings from a magical dimension subtly infiltrating the planet via shapeshifting, having Half-Human Hybrid children with society's higher ups, then leaving. Said children (known as Gifted) have inherent magical powers and learn to control them as they grow up.

Gifted have two parts to their soul- the human (Terran) soul, and their Guardian. This represents their arcane half and tends to reside within the Gifted. They survive by sustaining a portal to the magic dimension to draw mana from, but in order to perform this, they need to regularly eat sentient souls. Should they fail to do this regularly, the Guardian will kill the human side's soul and emerge as an arcane godlike being.

More on Gifted:

• They make up <0.0001% of the population.
• Require 1 sentient soul/week, more or less depending on how much extra mana they draw/conserve.
  • Partial souls can be drawn so that they don't kill the Terran, but it takes skill to extract it from a living being. Any partially missing soul will regenerate slowly in a Terran.
• Age 1/4 as fast as a regular Earth human (The Terran humans on the planet age 2/3 as fast). They stop aging at 40 Gifted years or so.
• Children (0-13 Gifted years, aka 52 Earth years or ~36 Terran years) don't eat souls. During this period their powers are much weaker.
• At age 16 (Gifted years) their Guardian gains human-like sentience. Its first action will be to take over the Gifted, making them attack other sentient beings until the Gifted can take control of it in a mental battle. This is part of their nature, passed down from the non-human parent.
• Male Gifted have weaker magical ability than females, but they have greatly superior physical capabilities. Females on the other hand can be potentially more destructive than the strongest of nukes.
• Untrained Gifted usually don't know how to use or shape their powers properly. They're at much less risk of using wide-area spells as they don't even know how to do that.
• Too much mana emmission (when using stronger powers) will cause tech to spoil. Tech needs to be shielded from magic in a delicate, time consuming process (requires rare material and precision) for it to work properly around them, as a result most tech is still unshielded.
• Unlike humans, they show less remorse when killing. They can be trained to feel remorse however.
• At 100 Gifted years a Gifted will Ascend, shedding their mortal body and their Guardian becomes a full-fledged Arcane.

Inevitably, there will be racism, so I managed to get three sides to the conflict and their reasons.

Anti-Gifted side:

• Main Goal: Stamp out all the Gifted and magic from the world as they are a threat to humans and the tech society.
• They dislike the Gifted for their dependency on human souls (a greedy portion of Gifted and the anti-human faction kill humans to get it because it's easier to do)
• They believe that Gifted are a threat to society as some abuse their powers. Furthermore, many Gifted get temporarily controlled by their Guardian when they complete puberty, causing a destructive rampage.
• Furthermore, they do not want any of this magic stuff on the world, claiming that its spread is a blight on the planet that will make technology obsolete. It doesn't help that Gifted using their powers near most tech will cause tech to spoil.
• Mass-producing tech that can cause wide-scale destruction, so as to make the Gifted obsolete in fighting space wars.
• If questioned by the protagonist, they'll call her a hypocrite as she promotes peace between the humans and Gifted, yet she still "eats" the anti-Gifted humans.
• They'll also point out that harmony side is too idealistic and trusting of the Gifted- the Gifted under the global army's care may go rogue.

Anti-Human side:

• Main Goal: Become the dominant race and enslave the humans as worshippers and "cattle", replace all tech with magic.
• Believe that the Gifted are superior to humans in their nature, it's their nature to rule over the humans. They're somewhat right on this one due to the nature of their Arcane parent passed down.
• They need soul food or turn into even deadlier monsters. While it's possible for Gifted to not kill the human to get part of it, the faction finds the humans selfish for not donating more.
• They also dislike humans for calling them monsters, destroying Gifted experiments to halt their progress, as well as killing them (the anti-gifted disable them with antimagic and kill them on sight).
• They don't like it that the harmony side uses the Gifted as weapons of war.
• Like the harmony side, they also create their own Magitech, usually for combat and subjugation.
• If questioned by the protagonist, they'll tell her that she's Not So Different as she's killed to get souls before, and that she'd be a great candidate for a ruler- she's the world president's child after all.

"Harmony" side:

• Main Goal: Get humans and Gifted to live and work together in harmony, supporting each other.
• Believes that humans and Gifted can work together despite their predator/prey relationship.
• Currently believes that soulfood thing can be done in moderation- i.e. not killing the human, but are finding a way to artificially produce human souls so the humans can be left intact.
• Creating magitek for Gifted to use in place of technology (which they destroy if they use their powers near unshielded ones).
• Take Gifted they discover under their care to prevent the Anti-Gifted from executing them.
• Trained Gifted are used in war and stopping of invasions. This allows them to get their food without having to take it from innocent lives. They're only used in self-defensive measures- Terra 102 is not a planet that will actively attack others, but many other planets do attack them for their newly-discovered rich supply of resources.

Right now I need to find a way to get the protagonist to tell the factions why peace is better, but without making the other two look like strawmen, as they have their legit points. How should I make a sound argument?

I would also like to know how else the tech society would react to the Gifted and vice versa (like regular people going "magic is real!", worries about magic replacing tech, The Magic Versus Technology War etc).

edited 5th Oct '14 10:20:14 AM by ironcommando

...eheh

From my perspective, the major problem with peace is the question of whether there is indeed a way in which the Gifted might remove their reliance on the consumption of souls—something that at least some would likely see as worse than killing.

You have the "harmony" side claiming that the Gifted will eventually find a way—but on what do they base that? Do they know how long it might take? Come to that, do the non-Gifted have ways of restraining a Gifted who decides that they want to eat souls anyway?

As to responses to the emergence of magic, aside from a general scale from mistrust to enthusiasm (I can see some people considering it to be inherently evil—especially given the "soul-eating" business; I can see others enthusiastically accepting it as a wonder; and I can see other potential reactions in-between, including significant scepticism), I think that the overall effect would likely depend on the nature of the magic: just what can the Gifted do? Can they produce lasting magitek, for example? If so, does it have ontological inertia—that is, does it continue after they stop supporting it, or die?

My Games & Writing

The Magitech is able to work as long as there is Mana around, which Gifted produce. They're built with magic-storing crystals, kinda like a capacitor. A Gifted in the presence of a Magitech device should be able to make it work. Said Magitech generally tends to be on par with the technology since the research is very new, but once they get going, it will eventually become superior to tech.

Non-Gifted have devices that produce anti-magic fields that can extend quite a large radius around the source, dissipating any magic and also heavily weakening their Guardians. This makes Gifted and even their Guardians more easy to capture.

What the humans and Gifted that want peace are trying to do is to find a way to convert energy into soulfood, so the Gifted don't have to kill humans for it. So far the only major breakthrough is a huge, inefficient device that consumes a lot of mana but is able to convert a lot of energy into a miniscule amount of soulfood. They're planning to harvest the energy from the sun once a good one is built.

edited 9th Aug '14 8:55:55 AM by ironcommando

...eheh

Oh, and from the point of magic being introduced to a tech society, the reaction would probably start as panic, with perhaps long-dead superstitions becoming alive (if there were blurry past experiences with magic users). Then the reaction would be... science!

"We know it can break laws of physics - but which one?" "Oh, so it can do this but not that." "Wait, since whenever we cast Spell A we get Result B, does this mean that 'magic' has laws? Which one? Can they be broken? Perhaps, with, science?"

And since this particular form of magic utilizes the soul, which is among the most abstract word and concept we have, debates both scientific, philosophical, theological, and thaumaturgical are going to rage.

What happens to the guys that get their soul eaten? Do they die? Do they become amoral psychopaths? Do they lose their creativity? Their identity? Emotions? All of the above?

EDIT: So, energy and the soul can be substituted for one another? Is the soul merely some coalesced form of 'spiritual energy', that can be concocted from other physical energies and vice versa?

edited 9th Aug '14 9:03:32 AM by Ninth

There were no experiences with magic users before, this is the first time they've seen it. And yes, one of the first reactions was to sufficiently analyze it (hence coming up with Mana as the SI unit for magic energy).

People who get their soul eaten are dead, and cannot be revived since their soul is no longer existing.

Energy can't be substituted for souls in a Gifted/Guardian's diet, because the energy needs to be sentient in order for them to use it. And it is not just a coalesced but also a modified form of energy concocted from other energies. (Creating it is kinda like how kinetic energy can be converted into heat energy, except a lot tougher)

edited 11th Aug '14 9:13:22 AM by ironcommando

...eheh

Widespread hibernation. If the Gifted can't find enough to feed, then they don't. Half the population goes to sleep for 6 months of the year.

If you want to make sure neither side is a strawman, take the time to develop them. Set parts of the story in both cultures, and make it clear that they both have a right to exist. You don't have three sides right now - you have one position between two poles, and that's difficult to represent without strawmen. And besides that, they have a predator/prey relationship, so the idea of any sort of peace between them at all is laughable.

The other part of the problem is that the factions' motivations seem simplistic. 'Destructive powers' can be replicated or met with destructive weapons (this is actually the solution Kamen Rider Agito and Kamen Rider Kabuto implement, in different ways). And aside from blind sociopathy, why would anyone resort to kidnapping and dissection if it's entirely cost-effective (and better PR) to have the Gifteds willingly perform self-experimentation?

I would instead make it clear that they do not need to eat a whole human soul in one sitting, and a partial soul will... er, 'grow' back in a month or so. This way, the anti-Gifteds can scapegoat the Gifteds for the actions of a few gluttons (and they do exist), and the anti-Humans can view them as greedy bastards who refuse to donate, as though to Locks of Love or the blood bank.

The thing to remember about factions is that they aren't monoblocs, usually. There's a core of fanatical diehards, a group of strong supporters around them, some schmucks who forgot that they set their membership dues up as an automatic recurring payment - and then the rest of the world who would really appreciate it if they'd stop wasting time and come home to till the damn fields.

How durable is a human soul? Is it like a human liver which grows back even if half is missing or like a human central nervo-system which never heals at all?

Could Gifted get away with coppicing humans, eating part of their soul now and let it grow back so they can eat it again?

Thanks for the suggestions. The partial soul thing sound like a good one. May I know what motivation would not be considered simplistic then? (BTW Gifted are <1% of the population)

Most probably it's possible for it to replenish slowly (grows back in years), but it would probably make them more of an Empty Shell (the more soul removed, the more of an Empty Shell they become).

(About the destructive powers thing- some Gifted abuse their powers and are eventually driven evil by them, thus using it to destroy people)

edited 13th Aug '14 10:35:24 PM by ironcommando

...eheh

I'd say it's not a question of motivation (that's racism, basically 'I hate that group of people' all gussed up with elitism and big words). And it's not one or another reason, so much as how they don't include some attempt to find a workaround. Multiple reasons (like I see you're adding now, good on ya) that add up to a serious problem, but individually would have been the cost of a diverse society, would probably make things sufficiently complex. (Something to make the Harmonics seem like head-in-the-cloud dreamers in comparison.)

I think... defining the factions by either what they are against or for is unconvincing (you're probably working on this though). Also, surely there's a reason the Gifted aren't simply all rounded up and shot when they're that much of a minority?

The protagonists' faction (Aka the harmony faction, and it includes the planetary army) makes sure the Gifted aren't rounded up and shot, although they will not hesitate to put down one who goes rogue and clearly abuses their powers. Quite a number of Gifted are under the planetary army's care.

I might want to do your suggestion though- the Anti-humans and anti-Gifted can treat the harmony faction as "too idealistic" for valid reasons.

edited 9th Aug '14 10:27:58 PM by ironcommando

...eheh

Wait... Does that mean that in the replacement for eating human souls, they're essentially creating new, sentient beings and then immediately feeding them to something? That's... somewhat horrifying. o_o

edited 10th Aug '14 8:49:37 AM by ArsThaumaturgis

My Games & Writing

There's nothing about this system that ISN'T horrifying. The closest to humane solution I can think of is a system where the elderly, and other soon to be dead offer their souls in a manner similar to organ donation. How many Gifted are there, and how many souls does each one need, anyway? Also, is there an afterlife for souls to reside in after death? Because if there is, killing people for their souls become all the more terrifying.

It's horrifying but currently the safest alternative than having to harm a human in the process.

They normally require one per week on average, more or less depending on mana production rate (depends on how often they use powers). Children don't need to eat souls. Gifted make up <1% of the planet's population but their numbers are (very) slowly increasing.

About an afterlife... I haven't thought about that yet, but there would probably be one. Being a very tech-based society, the humans wouldn't know about it even if it existed.

Your suggestion on the soul donation thing seems like a good idea though.

edited 11th Aug '14 9:13:56 AM by ironcommando

...eheh

Something else that mitigates the "having to feed off humans" thing-

Terra 102 has a good reputation intergalactically, and is rather known to other races. Once in a while there would be a hostile invasion from aliens. If peace talks fail (or if the aliens want a 1-sided bargain that would benefit themselves) then the planetary defence will send in their Gifted to finish the aliens off via destructive spells.

Invasion thwarted, and the Gifted get their soul food, enough for maybe a few years depending on the size of the invasion force there were. Trained Gifted may also be sent to other planets in war with Terra 102, also allowing them to get their soulfood from the foes they defeat.

...eheh

So you're saying the Gifted are capable of strategic level destruction?

Yes. Most Gifted that don't train their powers usually can't do this level or scale of destruction as they don't know where to place their attacks (or even cast properly). Out of the trained ones, only females are able to cause massive-scale destruction (males on the other hand have greatly enhanced physical capabilities, but weaker spells).

The planet doesn't wantonly declare war on others. The only time they will get into fights is when others declare war on it- it's one of those that attack back if provoked.

(This is one reason why the anti-Gifted want to get rid of them too- if any of them go crazy with their powers, they'll cause loads of destruction.)

edited 12th Aug '14 5:29:20 AM by ironcommando

...eheh

And how are those Strategic Individuals limited, when they're not being called upon to be S Is?

They normally refrain from using their powers when not being SIs. A number of them reduce their mana production so as to extend their soul fullness. A select few also willingly choose to "hibernate" so they don't have to feed.

They tend to be called on quite often, however, as the planet frequently comes under attack due to the recent discovery of great amounts of resources and phlebotinum found under its surface.

edited 12th Aug '14 1:47:11 PM by ironcommando

...eheh

How does the anti-Gifted faction plan to fill the military gap left by the Strategic Individuals, when they're finally all exterminated? I can't see there being a cost-effective way to duplicate SI-class Gifted abilities with technology, or maybe there is?

They're developing tech that can cause great amounts of destruction against enemy troops, improving on it so that said tech will eventually be able to make the Gifted obsolete. (It's more cost-effective as one might think, especially after the huge resource and phlebotinum cache was recently discovered)

...eheh

Uhmm, I take issue with your numbers. "Around 1% of the population" is too gosh-darned high, if you ask me.

Let's see, if your world is like earth...

• Total World Population: 7.2 billion people (give or take a few millions).

• Average population growth: 1.1% or 75 million per year.

As for your numbers on the Gifted:

• A 1% of the world's population would be 72,536,199 people. That's huge. For comparison, Turkey has a population of 74,932,641 people and they are the 18th largest country in the world (in terms of population).

Now, we should remove children aged between 0-14 because they do not consume souls. What percentage should we take? In the USA, around a 19.4% of the population falls in the age range, but in a lot of African countries, the percentage fluctuates between 40-50%. For the sake of this argument let's take a median number: 26.61% (That's the average of the 20 most populated countries in the world).

So, among the Gifted, only 19,301,882 fall under the 'children' group age (0-14 years old). That leaves 53,234,317 adults. Over 53 million souls being consumed every week. Think about that for a minute.

• One week: 53,234,317 souls consumed.
• One month: 212,937,268 souls consumed.
• One year: 2,768,184,484 souls consumed (almost three billion souls!).

What this means is that, in a year, the Gifted would go through a 37.12% of the world's populations. It'd take less than three years for the human race to go extinct.

I'd suggest reducing the number by a lot. I'd go with around 0.0001% of the world's population for the number of Gifted (around 725,360) or change the soul consumption rate to a less frequent rate.

edited 13th Aug '14 8:58:06 PM by Lorsty

Yeah I'd also agree with that. Thanks for the tip on the population. I wasn't sure of what numbers to use. I'd probably use around the percentage you gave.

edited 13th Aug '14 8:56:11 PM by ironcommando

...eheh

I'm glad I could be of help.

1% seems about right, actually, for a single ethnicity. The thing to keep in mind is that they are probably spread out amongst the world, and in fact that's kinda what I was assuming. (It could also be a hellish sort of control, where only a certain number of Gifted can live in a populated area. The 'One per Hundred' rule/law, or something?)

By comparison, Japan (which I'm using here out of its reputation for ethnic homogeneity) has a population of 127 million as of last month, and there are at least 1.2 billion Han Chinese in the world.

I would instead alter the rate at which souls need to be consumed, and how much at one time.

Lorsty, a question (because my math-fu is weak): Would the numbers support half the Gifted population (the other half is in hibernation at any given time) consuming the equivalent of a full soul every two weeks or so, given that a human soul will recover at a constant rate within 6 months (such that a half-eaten soul will recover in 3 months)?

Numbers are fun, yay!

If we keep the original 1%, we get the following numbers for the Gifted population. I'll use the numbers for the world's population as well as China's, the USA's, and Japan's. (The number in parentheses is the percentage based on the respective total population)

• Worldwide: 72,537,947 (1%)
  • Children: 19,302,348 (0.266%)
  • Adults: 53,235,600 (0.734%)
  • Non-hibernating Gifted (Adults only): 26,617,800 (0.367%)

• China: 13,947,892 (1%)
  • Children: 2,538,516 (0.182%)
  • Adults: 11,409,376 (0.818%)
  • Non-hibernating (Adults only): 5,704,688 (0.409%)

• USA: 3,228,932 (1%)
  • Children: 626,413 (0.194%)
  • Adults: 2,602,519 (0.806%)
  • Non-hibernating (Adults only): 1,301,259 (0.403%)

• Japan: 1,269,823 (1%)
  • Children: 163,807 (0.129%)
  • Adults: 1,106,016 (0.871%)
  • Non-hibernating (Adults only): 553,008 (0.436%)

Now, if we consider that each Gifted needs to consume a full soul every two weeks, that the recovery time for the soul is 180 days (six months), and that no soul can recover from zero (i.e. consuming a whole soul kills the Terran in question), then we get that:

• If a Gifted consumes half a soul (50%) then he'd only need 12 Terrans to keep himself well fed. No Terran would die but they'd need around 90 days to fully recover before they could feed another Gifted.
  • A single Terran could feed a Gifted 4 times every year.
• If a Gifted consumed a quarter of a soul (25%), then he'd only need 12 Terrans to keep himself well fed. The difference would be that the Terran would only need 45 days to fully recover before they could feed him again.
  • A single Terran could feed a Gifted 8 times every year.

As for the total number of victims*:

• Worldwide: 319,413,598
• China: 68,456,253
• USA: 15,615,113
• Japan: 6,636,094

Were those the numbers you were looking for, Deus Denuo?

I mean victims in a non-fatal way. They'd all recover eventually.

edited 14th Aug '14 4:13:57 PM by Lorsty