DC Comics General

Joung Yustice?

Heh typo.

Also hilarious thing, turns out Tim's current boyfriend Bernard was originally a minor character from Tim's runs previous run with an entirely different characterization. He was a conspiracy theorist and also a huge perv, where one page had him checking out Tim's stepmom and then telling Tim how she is to Tim's annoyance. They weren't even close friends.

If your wondering why that guy was brought back, it turns out Bernard has a sizable following in the fan fiction slash fandom. He was the other slash pairing for Tim in case you wanted him to romance a guy other than Conner. And because Bernard is a minor enough character, writers would basically change his personality to however they want, being a full on escapist character to match Tim with.

And this is exactly how Fitzmartin is writing Tim and Bernard's relationship, right out of a yaoi fanfic. Hell plenty of bisexual readers have critiqued how the characters are very evidentially written by a straight woman's fujoshi tastes, instead of something written like an actual bi romance.

There's a preview released for Tim's upcoming comic and he mentions having "settled" when he was with Steph which is not how a bi character should be written.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 26th 2022 at 2:32:08 AM

Face Palm. Man, this whole thing with YJ and Tim and Fitzmartin is beyond aggravating. Like something wished out of a monkey's paw.

It's like the internet wished for more YJ and Tim and the monkey's paw is like "okay, you'll get those, but they'll be written by a lady writer who wants you to hate female superheroes as much as she does and evidently thinks bisexual is another word for homosexual and use it to stuff us with as much yaoi as she's allowed to put in a "Ages 13+" rated American superhero comic."

Like, I concede that I'm a straight male (struggling) writer, but even I think that saying Tim "settled" with Steph is a slap in the face to bisexuals. As if bisexuals are only interesting if they're with the same sex. Geez, if she wasn't so busy with Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss, I would've elected Vivienne Medrano to write Tim's solo book if only because she has a better understanding of bisexuality from both the male and female side of it.

Man, the only way Fitzmartin's kind of writing can work is if it turns out Bernard is a sleeper agent for Punchline, who's targeting queer people like she is with Bluebird's little brother (forgot his name) to expand her grip on Gotham's social media. And even then, I admit that it sounds really, really, really, really stupid.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Sep 26th 2022 at 12:02:21 PM

Sounds like they tripped on what not to do when writing a bisexual character. People might like Tim coming out, but written like this...

Exactly. I kinda edited my initial post to reflect my thoughts better, but if DC absolutely needed a lady writer on Tim's book, they probably should have went with someone like Vivienne Medrano, who actually knows about bisexuality.

I've seen speculation that Fitzmartin might have wanted to instead make Tim gay not bi.

Tellingly she is writing Tim as if he is gay instead of bi, very much downplaying any interest in women especially with that settled comment.

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 26th 2022 at 11:56:38 AM

Downplaying one of his more important relationships in favor of the new one really leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Imagine if they tried to do that with Dick.

It's like they are trying to burn away the goodwill towards Bernard, really.

Didn't Pre-Crisis Earth-One Clark reappear in DC Retroactive: The 70s, DC Retroactive: The 80s, and Convergence: Adventures of Superman?

Edited by StarformDCX on Sep 26th 2022 at 5:21:05 AM

so what they did to dickkory to shill dickbabs?

In this case its like when MJ was shilling Charlie Cooper to date Peter

Because Bernard here is by all intents and purposes a completely new character which is a bit of a different minefield compared to the ship wars between established characters

I should have added "before Byrne's reboot."

It's a bit odd that they didn't bring Earth-One Clark back for Action Comics #1000, since he returns in "celebration of Superman history" stuff so often. Is there an Earth-One story in Superman Red & Blue?

Edited by StarformDCX on Sep 26th 2022 at 10:04:34 AM

Oh hey,I could'nt find the swamp thing thread so I'm posting my thoughts on the 'Pog' comic

I read it last night and it I'm struggling to recall anything about it,I'm aware its a fillery tribute to the 'Pogo' comics but it made no god damn sense

Edited by Ultimatum on Sep 27th 2022 at 6:07:04 PM

It was about pollution and the loss of innocence. The Pogs come to Earth because of pollution, but our Earth's not much better. The gator tries to live like a normal gator, but he's nothing next to real gators and gets mailed to death for his troubles. It makes perfect sense. The Pogs leave because they're Too Good for This Sinful Earth and don't have a place here. It makes perfect sense.

You know, fans tend to think of Donna Troy when they think of the most batshit insane character backstories, but IMO there's another character who is at least as bizarre. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Hector Hall.

• He was created for Infinity Inc in the '80s, which starred the children of the members of the JSA. Hector was the son of the Golden Age Hawkman and -girl (already off to an inauspicious start there...) and operated as Silver Scarab, later trading that mantle for that of the third Sandman. He later married Lyta Trevor/Fury, Wonder Woman's daughter.
• After Infinity Inc was canceled, he was brought back for an arc of Gaiman's Sandman, in which he was killed off and his and Lyta's son Daniel was born. Since Daniel was born in the Dreaming, he later became the successor of the Cosmic Entity Sandman (aka Dream of the Endless, as opposed to the superhero).
• THEN, in the Johns/Robinson JSA, his soul was reborn in the body of Hawk and Dove's infant son, artificially aged to adulthood, and became the new Doctor Fate. After being a big player in the run's Myth Arc, he was then rather abruptly killed off again along with his wife in the insane Spectre's genocide of magicians. I remember this was so sudden that there was a lot of speculation at the time as to why it was done; most common theory seemed to be that the Vertigo Office invoked the "No Sandman characters without Gaiman's permission" clause, but since Hector and Lyta long predate that series I'm not sure why it could be applied to them.

So, what you have is essentially a fairly random upper-C-lister who, over the course of three decades and many writers, became the point of conjunction of four or five different hero legacies, several of which, particularly the Hawks and Dr. Fate, are extremely complicated themselves. He's like the Tommy Westphal of superheroes.

Edited by HamburgerTime on Sep 27th 2022 at 6:45:57 AM

Hector's Death well His time as Dr Fate being cut short by a raging maniac murdering Magic aligned characters is hilarious since his own introduction as Dr fate is heralded by the Death of the totally 90s Dr fate... who was killed by a raging maniac murdering magic aligned characters

Have I ever mentioned that Dc is cyclical

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Sep 28th 2022 at 6:18:50 AM

No he wasn't. We can see how often his character appeared by looking at Fanfiction sites. There are two pages on Archive of our Own before Tim/Bernard fics are ones after Urban Legends came out. Tim/Bernard fics on Livejournal stop at around 2009. He's not even a character you can select on fanfiction.net. Where exactly was Bernard being used as the alternative for Conner?

Tim is, very fucking specifically here, talking about himself. That he settled being something, but he's realizing he's more than that. Neither he, nor the comic, are saying he was settling by being with Stephanie. FFS the comic opens with Tim narrating about how he moved out to find himself.

You can not like Tim/Bernard, you can like Tim/Steph, you can hate Meghan Fitzmartin. But maybe try doing that without spouting out absolute bullshit?

Eventually Hector and Lyta were taken into the Dream realm (or their spirits were anyway) by Daniel, the heir of Morpheus, in JSA#80.

Anyhow, now we have super-cool Pierce Brosnan Dr.Fate, so I expect a resurgence of Dr.Fate.

Edited by Robbery on Sep 28th 2022 at 9:58:57 AM

I don't know, the "settled" line seems to have really pissed off a lot of people including actual bisexual readers.

They do not like the implication that he "settled" for Steph especially with Tim acting like he's apparently never been in love before or felt any of this before Bernard came along.

The panel with the line apparent

Edited by slimcoder on Sep 28th 2022 at 11:29:49 AM

This reminds me a lot of what Marvel did with Iceman, honestly.

Showerthought: I wonder if downplaying Tim/Steph to “just a fling” might be intended at least partially as a Take That! at the pairing’s main writer, Chuck Dixon, who is… not a very nice man from what I’ve heard.

Didn't Dixon also invent Bludhaven and Blockbuster?

Were there any downplaying of those elements there?

Well Blockbuster just died in the last issue of Nightwing amusingly enough

Huh so this week the last issue of Justice League vs Legion of Super-Heroes came out

And from what I hear it ended with a whimper, not a bang

Barring the Legion show (and its questionable if that its still in development) this is the last DC work for Bendis as all his next projects are creator owned works at Dark Horse