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TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apacalypse. from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
#51: Oct 24th 2013 at 8:20:26 PM

I have to say I am impressed. Maybe they can be moved by EM fields like dust particles.

The Nano-Machines I have my story require a fluid suspension, can only do one or two things per machine type, they receive both power and instructions from whatever the container is.

Medical nanos have flagella like swimming apendages, are powered by bio-electricity, instructions are received by a series of small bio implants that are subdermal but have "antenna" that extend into the blood stream. The Subdermal implants can be run off of piezo electric generators that are worn with clothing and run off of kinetic motion, small high density batteries, and even batteries charged by solar power.

Medical nanos are largely immune system boosters that have been made to behave like the immune system but can be altered to target certain organisms.

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MaxwellDaring MY EYES from Interzone Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
MY EYES
#52: Oct 24th 2013 at 8:29:57 PM

The EM propulsion was my first idea, but I thought it might do something weird to its nerve net. However, it uses optics as opposed to electronics. I'm sure it's safe from that level of electromagnetism.

INSIDE OF YOU THERE ARE TWO WOLVES. BOTH OF THEM WANT YOU TO SHOOT ELVIS.
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#53: Oct 25th 2013 at 8:29:48 AM

I know those questions were probably intended for Maxwell, but hopefully it's okay if I answer 'em too - hopefully it'll flesh out nanotech in my setting.

EMP: what does EMP do to the little nano's? Are they "off" or Killed Off for Real?

Depends on where they are. If they're out in the open, they're probably going to be irrepairably broken (it's hard to harden something that small, after all). Short circuits, short circuits everywhere!

If they're inside something (say a suitably hardened vehicle) then they're probably sufficiently well shielded from an EMP's effects to either keep working or just shut down pre-emptively to protect their internal components.

On that note, intense electromagnetic fields can impair the function of nanites. Depending on their nature, they might deliver a warning message to whoever's responsible for them or the person they're inside (though there's no guarantee that said message will be particularly helpful, since it's not like nanomachines have much processing power to spare for sending detailed diagnostics; it'll probably say something like "NANITES INOP.").

Rival nano's

They are kind of a thing. The Confederates are the main users of nanomachines by far, but the other two civilisations use nanites to varying degrees. However, in order for these nanites to meet it would require something similar to a Red Bloom use. I'm not sure of what the exact effects would be.

One idea I've heard was nanite "fixers". Say a part breaks somewhere. A wire frays, a bolt snaps etc. Some nanites go out (or are placed there before hand) and fix the part. They rebuilt it or "merge" into the broken parts like army ants.

Yep, those exist in my 'verse.

@Tuefel:

Unfortunately I can't answer the first two questions; my knowledge is insufficient to provide a response that makes sense.

How are they commanded/guided? What tells them what to do?

A mixture of internal AI*

and heavily encripted wireless networks; the former are the normal method of commanding the nanomachines, whilst the latter are used more prominently in non-critical areas such as public spaces, etc. etc. However, the Red Bloom system does use a wireless network to control nanites outside of the body. Since the user is probably going to die soon anyway, it doesn't really matter that it's less secure than the internal AI.

Hopefully that makes sense!


Are there any features that would be useful in a futuristic combat uniform and powered armour (aside from the obvious like "heavily armoured enough to protect you")? One idea that's occured to me is something similar to Ghost Recon's CrossCom, as well as telemetry being transferred between your gun and uniform/armour but that feels a little tame.

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TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apacalypse. from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
#54: Oct 26th 2013 at 7:19:02 AM

Active Camoflauge. If the rumour mill is to be believed the US is already actively using it in limited numbers and test batches.

Various ECM and ECCM. The usual gamut of Visual enhancements, Lidar, Sonar, and non-satelite mapping and navigation.

Depending how hard your scifi enhanced mobility like jump jets, limited flight, powered roller feet like you see in a lot of mech shows but for smaller bodies etc.

For my story the difference between an Exo Skeleton is just a load bearing frame that is set to help carry the load on a soldiers body. It can be made into adhoc power armor with Appliqué armour but lacks all the special functions and enclosed protected environment of true power armor.

Proper power armor adds about a full foot to the users height, is fully enclosed entry is through the back, has a host of electronic equipment found on vehicles like a humvee but not as potent as larger vehicle or drone mount. They also actually are stronger then the human frame but use special equipment to achieve that advantage.

Improved melee is kinda like what you see in armored trooper votoms. The punch is a hydraulic or "cartridge fired" piston weapon usually more like a Pile Bunker bayonet style mounted on the arm.

They tend to carry heavy weapons with compacted ammo usually utilizing wepaons based on heavy machineguns, rocket launchers, automatic grenade launchers, and the most compact light weight auto cannons. They top out at about 445lbs for the heaviest known armor.

They resist the majority of small arms fire but various weapons like heavy rifles, man portable heavy machine guns, grenade launchers, etc are adept and taking out the power armor.

Specialized munitions exist to fight power armor specifically.

Basically power armor bridges the gap between infantry and vehicles/drones. They are heavier then infantry but lighters then a majority of ground vehicles and ground combat drones.

Ground combat drones are like the German Wiesel. Somewhere between a VW Bug sized vehicle and a tankette. But unlike the failed tankettes have better armor and armament due to improvements in tech mean they have armor more on par with hardened APC and the fire power to match. Meaning anything from a Mediumg MG up to large caliber gun found on the Mobile Gun System. Some mount ATGM's or Close in Air Defense Weapons. Heavy Mortars can also be mounted on them.

edited 26th Oct '13 8:15:56 AM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#55: Oct 26th 2013 at 10:26:07 AM

Active Camoflauge. If the rumour mill is to be believed the US is already actively using it in limited numbers and test batches.

This is used by the Fox scout armour, though it's less active camouflage coating and an active camouflage cloak, sort of like the cloak used by one of the soldiers in the Ghost Recon: Future Soldier trailer (I can provide a link if necessary). It can be a little fragile, but it works well enough. Especially since the scout armour isn't meant to get into situations where it's likely the cloak will be shot or otherwise ruined.

Later versions of both that armour and others may have fully fledged active camouflage.

Various ECM and ECCM. The usual gamut of Visual enhancements, Lidar, Sonar, and non-satelite mapping and navigation.

Yep, the setting's powered armour has that in spades.

Depending how hard your scifi enhanced mobility like jump jets, limited flight, powered roller feet like you see in a lot of mech shows but for smaller bodies etc.

There isn't any actual flight capable powered armour due to the potential for anti-air systems and MANPADS to shoot them down, but jump jets and "rollerblades" would certainly be possible. Indeed, the jump jets could even be used as thrusters for enhanced acceleration. You could fly in a fashion using "sustained thrust" settings for jump jets, but those are more for leaping further distances and/or emergency use - that and they reduce motor life and fuel reserves significantly.

For my story the difference between an Exo Skeleton is just a load bearing frame that is set to help carry the load on a soldiers body. It can be made into adhoc power armor with Appliqué armour but lacks all the special functions and enclosed protected environment of true power armor.

Awesome. Exo-skeletons are used in my story to carry larger loads than normal, but have precisely zero protection from incoming fire (they are handy for logistics work, though). I'm thinking that once one of the human factions gets over the initial "Oh shit, powered armour!" stage they'll introduce removable armour for the exo-skeletons in a similar fashion to what you describe.

The Confederacy would probably prefer to just sic drones on them, though.

Proper power armor adds about a full foot to the users height, is fully enclosed entry is through the back, has a host of electronic equipment found on vehicles like a humvee but not as potent as larger vehicle or drone mount. They also actually are stronger then the human frame but use special equipment to achieve that advantage.

Ah, I see! I'm not sure how much height a suit of powered armour adds in my setting, but really the main reason they're so effective is just because 1) the other side has no real like-for-like system, 2) the powered armour is very advanced, and 3) the difference in scale and strength between humans and Sirians leads to a disproportionate effect.

Improved melee is kinda like what you see in armored trooper votoms. The punch is a hydraulic or "cartridge fired" piston weapon usually more like a Pile Bunker bayonet style mounted on the arm.

This is badass. The scout armours wouldn't be large enough to fit such systems, but the enhanced combat armours like Werewolf or the Barghest heavy weapons powered armour would definitely have something along those lines.

They tend to carry heavy weapons with compacted ammo usually utilizing wepaons based on heavy machineguns, rocket launchers, automatic grenade launchers, and the most compact light weight auto cannons. They top out at about 445lbs for the heaviest known armor.

Makes sense. When I was figuring out the railguns, I was thinking that they'd be roughly equivalent to human autocannons or around that ballpark. Not enough to seriously threaten things like tanks, but a nightmare for infantry and/or lightly armoured vehicles. This is true of a lot of power armour scale weapons aside from ATGMs and other anti-tank weapons.

They resist the majority of small arms fire but various weapons like heavy rifles, man portable heavy machine guns, grenade launchers, etc are adept and taking out the power armor.

Shielding lets powered armour take bigger hits than they should (aside from the Fox powered armour, which will really only resist the equivalent of Sirian pistols and non-powered armour rifles), but once that's gone heavy weapons can and will do damage to the powered armour. Things like ATGMs are probably going to shred the user's insides and kill them once the reactive armour is gone.

Vehicle mounted weapons are a real threat. Though I might be lowballing it, if you want an idea of a Sirian powered armour's protection level imagine the defenses of an IFV and then slap some shields over that (stuff like the Barghest is closer to a tank, though that's not the same as saying it is as tough as a tank).

Specialized munitions exist to fight power armor specifically.

Those will definitely be a thing that exists as the fighting goes on; infantry operated anti-powered armour systems will probably be easy to use and quick to fire to minimise the risk posed to the operator.

Ground combat drones are like the German Wiesel. Somewhere between a VW Bug sized vehicle and a tankette. But unlike the failed tankettes have better armor and armament due to improvements in tech mean they have armor more on par with hardened APC and the fire power to match. Meaning anything from a Mediumg MG up to large caliber gun found on the Mobile Gun System. Some mount ATGM's or Close in Air Defense Weapons. Heavy Mortars can also be mounted on them.

I like that.

Drones run a whole gamut in my setting; you have things that are like the BigDog, like the Tactical Support Robot (TSR), UCAVs, naval unmanned vehicles, humanoid drones, and things closer to what you describe. They are invariably modular in their load-out and can perform a wide range of roles. They always have at least a rudimentary AI, often one that's smarter, letting them make decisions on the fly as battlefield conditions change.

The Confederacy love them to bits, and use them at almost every opportunity. The Coalition are also big users. The Sirian Union, by contrast, doesn't have very many drones, but those they do have are usually very heavily armoured and armed. At least one of their drones is just a converted powered armour system.

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TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apacalypse. from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
#56: Oct 26th 2013 at 10:44:20 AM

The guys who guard the arcology walls for example wear soft body armor with flexible hard scalar armor. A hardened combat helmet that seals down to protect the neck. The faceplate is a transparent aluminum oxide backed by a anti-fragment/spall laminate. Ie bullet/fragment resistant. Their ammo, packs, and additional gear hook onto the gram itself. When they step into the frame there are hard points and frame straps that help take the load of the body armor more directly from the wearer and put it on the frame. The Frames have built in recoil mitigation for most weapons.

The applique armor comes in a couple flavours. They have one called the Clam Shell. It is a Ceramic Composite Compound with shock absorbing and anti Spall liner. It adds about 80 lbs of weight but significantly increase protection to the torso. It also increases the overal torso size. It snaps around the frames exterior with a carry rack mounted around it. Additional armor can be placed around the neck, arms, legs, and even an up armored helm.

It is heavy but it will stop anything short of direct fire from some heavy weapons, explosives, and evne some of the lighter anti-power armor muntions and weapons.

Like putting on full plate. It increases rate, reduces operational time of the frame due to increased power usage for additional load, has some reduction in overall mobility. Additional data feeds have to be added to the extrior or hooked up under it.

Basically this is what you slap on when the shit hits the fan and you don't have time to climb into and fire up a suit of full power armor. Or it could be used to up armor troopers who are goign to be in a dangerous area and exposed to hostile fire and the added protection is more a benefit then a drain.

Other forms of Applique armor are more literal bolt on plates that are attached to existing hard points in a certain configuration.

Power Armors are widely varied depending on make, model, and Arcology Cluster of Origin. As do the various weapons.

So say the East Arcology Collective of North America favours what would be called medium Power Armor for its mobility but adequate protection with a few heavy units. The South American Midland Arcology states use Light power armor for moving around the wildlands and dense jungle with medium and heavy power armor designed for intense defensive missions.

Basically whatever the nations fighting strategy and philosophy is it will be reflected in their war tech. Much like in real life.

edited 26th Oct '13 10:46:41 AM by TuefelHundenIV

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TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#57: Oct 26th 2013 at 11:19:47 AM

One of the weapons in my 'verse:

  • Autonomous Scanning Magnetic Rifle (ASMR): a railgun that aims and fires itself. Not really that autonomous. ASMR is the human term for it.

Given the time to charge capacitors and the sensors used to aim on various battlefields, a computer aims the railgun. The operator selects a target, the computer plots the fire solution and then shoots when the probability of a hit is >80%. With all the trouble of balancing power, adjusting sensors, the Cay developed a rifle that does the hard work of firing and aiming. Just point it at what you want hit, then select a new target to be hit after the weapon fires and reloads.

Given the power sources, the computers, sensors and recoil, it must be tripod or vehicle mounted. Powered armor carry this rifle. The suit's computers pulling double duty and aiming the rifle so more ammo and power can be carried (and a dropped rifle can't be turned on the user). The EDF's bio-androids can pick up any ASMR rifle and fire it after they "merge" with the weapon.

Snipers can carry the heavier version. The spotter carries reloads and a backup (conventional) rifle.

edited 26th Oct '13 11:20:38 AM by TairaMai

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be a case on The First 48
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apacalypse. from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
#58: Oct 26th 2013 at 11:33:24 AM

I like.

I have taken a shine to recoiless rifle tech for external mounts. Basically any drone with a gun and feed only turret has a good chance of mounting a recoiless weapon. It allows a powerful gun to be mounted without needing as much for recoil management.

I also discovered that belt fed recoiless auto-cannons have been made. The Germans seem to have a thing for low impulse or recoiless Tech. Rheinmetall has a 30mm Belt Fed Recoiless Rifle Auto-Cannon that can be mounted on the Wiesel.

As for automated systems. If it is even semi-autonamous and can carry a weapon it has a man in the loop and carefully placed safe guards.

The back history has an experiment with fully automated artillery unit being used to test a new powerful MLRS weapon system go horribly wrong and winds up blowing up a refugee town and killing nearly everyone in it. They were forced to target and destroy the units when they started firing on the town on their own.

At msot a unit can have shorterm excutable instructions given to it but no permanent autonomy.

The defense of the wall employees large numbers of the populace to the point that many arcology clusters have mandatory guard service for a 6 year time span. Considering the human population is mostly stable with human life spans topping out at around 200 years give or take a decade that is not such a big deal.

Before I forget. Power Armor jocks are usually short, small, and light people. To minimize extra weight from the pilots.

edited 26th Oct '13 2:13:17 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
fulltimeD Deputy Director, Space-Time Gradient LV-114 from Purgatory Since: Jan, 2010
Deputy Director, Space-Time Gradient LV-114
#59: Oct 27th 2013 at 4:59:54 AM

I have nanotech in my verse (relatively realistically depicted) but I limit its application with the excuse that it's extremely powerful and the governments and corporations (mostly the latter) that make it have developed secret programming languages so that a consumer can't turn a set of commercial, specialized nanites (like medical nanites or "fixer" nanites) into an unstoppable Gray Goo Nano-Weapon. Every generation of nanites comes with a new programming language to prevent hackers from catching up for too long. And like the genetically engineered designer animals' DNA in my 'verse (animals engineered to help humans colonize other planets), they're controlled by the interplanetary/interstellar Megacorps.

Edited: Single Generation programming languages could also be used as a safeguard against nanites learning from the previous generation, each generation being like a reset, if the languages are designed to be incompatible.

edited 28th Oct '13 7:14:10 AM by fulltimeD

Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#60: Oct 27th 2013 at 2:21:42 PM

Very nice ideas, one and all!

As I've outlined in the tactics & strategies thread, similarly to fulltime D's 'verse nanomachines are limited in their military applications in order to avoid cruel and unusual deaths among other things.

Also, how's this as an anti-ship missile*

?


SS-N-72 Sawtooth

Based off a modular missile frame, the Sawtooth is a medium range anti-ship missile that can either be deployed from Coalition vessels or Coalition aircraft. Regardless of the method of employment, the Sawtooth is intended to be ripple fired as a swarm of 3 missiles or more, though it can still function well with only one or two launches. One Sawtooth missile is designated as the "command" missile, and provides extra targeting data (sometimes relayed via the launch platform) and electronic warfare assistance to the rest of the swarm. Guidance is fully active radar homing.

If the command missile is destroyed, another automatically takes its place.

In the terminal phase, the missile's nosecone fairing splits open to allow independently targetable warheads to guide individually on to the target, each receiving radar tracking by the main missile (which also contains a larger warhead itself). This is to counteract any CIWS or other hard countermeasures that may be employed by the target. The main missile boosts itself just prior to warhead seperation to limit reaction time.

If a missile finds that it is suddenly unable to complete its mission (say the nosecone jams or the warhead rocket motors fail), it will automatically enter a hard climb to act as a sacrificial target and buy the other Sawtooth missiles time.

The complexity of the system is a known issue, and certain production runs of Sawtooth missiles lack the MIRV mimicing warheads. Officers can also be reluctant to employ the Sawtooth due to a perceived lack of reliability after some spectacular failures to track and engage targets.

Locking you up on radar since '09
TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#61: Oct 27th 2013 at 3:32:06 PM

[up]It's the Shipwreck missile In Spaaace! I like it.

In my 'verse there are the various guided missiles.

Then there are the "pigs".

A pig, "pyg", "slug" or "rock" is an unguided projectile used on ships by fighters and launched by larger missiles. First used by humans desperate to stop the Cay Empire's warships, they were latter adopted by all sides.

They range from cargo containers with a booster rocket to "kill vehicles" that fly from a MIRV. Raiders like them because they are easy to make and easy to hide. With some effort a "pig in a blanket" can be made to look like part of the ship or as an external tank.

edited 27th Oct '13 8:25:08 PM by TairaMai

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be a case on The First 48
Flanker66 Dreams of Revenge from 30,000 feet and climbing Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Dreams of Revenge
#62: Oct 27th 2013 at 3:47:51 PM

Yeah, the Sawtooth is basically future!Shipwreck; I liked the concept behind the latter and thought to myself "If I was a weapons designer in the far future and I was told to improve on the Shipwreck, what would I do?".

In cases where a swarm is not available, the Sawtooth guides on to the target as normal and manages all of its own electronic warfare capabilities.

Also, that's an interesting idea - plus points for creativity.

Locking you up on radar since '09
fulltimeD Deputy Director, Space-Time Gradient LV-114 from Purgatory Since: Jan, 2010
Deputy Director, Space-Time Gradient LV-114
#63: Oct 28th 2013 at 1:26:41 PM

Still on firearms: tasers disguised as small objects would be useful for intelligence work.

Nomic Exitus Acta Probat from beyond the Void Since: Jan, 2001
Exitus Acta Probat
#64: Oct 28th 2013 at 2:33:39 PM

The common spaceship weapon for humanity in my setting is the mass driver (ie. railguns and coilguns). Mass drivers have high enough projectile velocity that even with the ranges space combat typically occurs (thousands of kilometers) the projectile is extremely difficult to avoid, and unlike laser-based weaponry, does not suffer loss of damage at extreme ranges due to diffraction. Because the power of the weapon is proportional to the lenght of the accelerator rails, larger ships typically mount a massive spinal-mounted mass driver in addition to turret-mounted wepons. It is unlikely to hit a non-stationary target, but whatever it does hit, dies. The weaknesses of the weapon system are high power usage and the fact that even with highly advanced supraconductive materials, the rails will undergo wear and need to be replaced.

The other major interstellar powers favour different weapon systems, based on their military doctrine. The Demosian Hierachy, an alien empire that has tried to invade human-held space in the past and is currently engaged in cold war with humanity, for exmple favour missiles, as they are relatively easy to build and have the longest effective range of all weapons (missiles can change their tractory in flight, allowing them to compensate for the target changing its course after firing). Their ships typically carry a variety of different missiles, such as torpedoes designed to inflict massive damage on single targets and MIRV-type warheads that split off into a swarm of smaller missiles to destroy multiple small ships or evade enemy point-defence weapons.

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apacalypse. from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
#65: Oct 28th 2013 at 5:02:23 PM

fulltime: Small pocket tasers are a very doable thing. XREP makes a shotgun that fires a one shot disposable taser round. Meaning you can pack it into a compact package rather easily if you need just a one shot.

All you need to make the taser system work is something to hold the charge and the contact points to discharge it into the target.

You could make "taser contact patches" with the advanced small scale power storage devices if you wanted to.

To take a line from Despicable Me 2.

"Lipstick Taser!"

You could do something similar for other gadgets including fire arms.

Cluster/Multi-projectile weapons and saturation fire capable systems are popular due to improvements in various counter measures.

A strike craft going after a tank will have a pod that fires multiple guided or unguided projectiles in a loose group to gurantee either multiple hits or that even a hit goes through.

The other popular option is very high accuracy coupled with very high power.

Rail guns for example. Popular as an artillery platform due to range and extrme velocity. Not impervous to shot detection and interception at long ranges but it is harder to intercept the rounds or disrupt their flight path.

They are used as large gun emplacements, large guns on surface vessels, and some tank platforms.

In order to achieve maximum effeciency and fire power the guns require a large amount of power to fire limiting what can carry the gun. They require both a reasonably powerful generator and large capacitors. Charge times and power vary for various weapons.

There are some man portable rail guns but at most they have limited power and use and tend to be one shot affairs running off of a powerful one shot battery/capacitor unit. They usually only fire penetrator rounds and are reserved for anti-armor against tanks or armored hard points. Some varities fire a type of high velocity canister shot used against troops, light power armor, some armored vehicles, and soft skinned vehicles.

edited 28th Oct '13 6:31:02 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
Belisaurius Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts from Big Blue Nowhere Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts
#66: Oct 29th 2013 at 6:25:06 AM

I came up with two moderately plausible shield systems but I can't figure which one makes more sense nor how to work them in parallel.

The first is a brute force approach. Armored plate segments are suspended with a magnetic field. By using hundreds or thousands of armor segments it's possible to assemble extra armor anywhere around the ship. It's effective against just about anything regular armor would defend against but it's power intensive and sufficient power can force the shield back against the armor. Also, a bit heavy. Not as heavy as regular armor but the segments still have significant mass.

The second is a plasma screen. Use magnetics to suspend a thick layer of plasma over the hull. Very effective against energy based weapons. The plasma is mildly opaque and has optical properties different than vacuum. This creates lensing effects that distort lasers. With time and some skill, the operators can sometimes deflect lasers away from the hull entirely. EMP is mostly neutralized since the field acts like a superconductive faraday cage. Unfortunately, plasma is entirely ineffective against solid projectiles. While small sand-like projectiles are vaporized, anything larger than, say, a football (or futball) just gets set on fire before hitting the target. It also generates a decent amount of heat. Not sure how well it radiates heat but it's going to be very visible. It's also tricky to see through it and radio would behave oddly (the shield acts like an antenna).

fulltimeD Deputy Director, Space-Time Gradient LV-114 from Purgatory Since: Jan, 2010
Deputy Director, Space-Time Gradient LV-114
#67: Oct 29th 2013 at 9:54:09 AM

^ I had a random thought earlier today; it's probably completely implausible, I am not a chemist or a particle physicist and I don't know what materials would be able to accomplish this, but it's basically a "transformer armor." It would provide defense against Directed Energy Weapons. Their would be three layers to the suit.

outer layer - a conductive skin that basically pulls a Ben Franklin and traps "lightening" (energy weapons fire)

middle layer - the middle layer would be a mechanism (either mechanical, electronic, or some exotic means) that redirects all that energy to use as a power source, and it would need to be suspended throughout an insulating medium.

inner layer - this is would contain the vessel's other systems, isolated from the shield which is like a circuit that redirects the energy back outward in some form. The inner layer would contain the area where the crew live and work and pilot the vehicle/ship/whatever. The door/airlock any other hatches leading to the interior would need to be completely insulated from the exterior of the vehicle/powered armor suit

A flexible version could be used as powered armor.

So an armor that absorbs and redirects directed energy.

inner layer -

edited 29th Oct '13 9:54:41 AM by fulltimeD

Belisaurius Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts from Big Blue Nowhere Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts
#68: Oct 29th 2013 at 12:29:17 PM

[up]It depends on what kind of energy you're dealing with. Electric forces can be absorbed with a faraday box hooked up to a capacitor. You'd need some kind of breaker when passing the energy from the capacitor to the suit it'self to prevent an overload of sensitive systems.

Heat requires thermocouples and even then you run the risk of heat damage if you can't radiate the thermal energy. Thermocouples also require that the outside temperature is lower than the inside temperature. There's less chance of sudden overload though.

fulltimeD Deputy Director, Space-Time Gradient LV-114 from Purgatory Since: Jan, 2010
Deputy Director, Space-Time Gradient LV-114
#69: Oct 29th 2013 at 1:02:36 PM

"The Lightning Trap" sounds a lot cooler than "deflector shields"

TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apacalypse. from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
#70: Oct 29th 2013 at 4:37:37 PM

Bel:The EM Plate shielding is sort of interesting. Is this armor plates suspended on an EM field? OR ar the plates generating the EM field?

Since both use EM they can be hooked up to both systems.

When you talk about the plasma system being used against lasers we talking it being AI driven?

Energy weapons like particle beams might not sufficiently or reliably affected by the screen.

The plasma cloud won't be very effective against some dumb fire kinetic projectiles of sufficient speed, density, and mass. However some might have their density ruined by an intense exposure to plasma. You soften the impactor enough before it hits, it can fracture or severely deform and not as effectively penetrate as it if it had retained its original density.

Against things like fighters, missiles, rockets, and other systems with fuel, electronics, warheads etc. Running into a super hot packet of plasma is going to do bad things to it. Electronic systems will take a hit, you make the exposure intense enough you can cook off fuel and warheads.

Who watches the watchmen?
Belisaurius Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts from Big Blue Nowhere Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Artisan of Auspicious Artifacts
#71: Oct 29th 2013 at 7:38:10 PM

The plates are suspended by precision electro-magnetics. Having them create their own EM field is a new idea. I didn't think they could be combined since the plasma would ruin the plates but if each plate had it's own magnetic field...

Anyway. Yes, the plasma shield is mostly autonomous. A technician can step in to maximize it's use but the plasma shield doesn't even warrant it's own AI for normal use.

I don't consider particle cannons to be energy weapons. I've always thought of them as kinetic weapons. Still, a particle cannon would burrow through the plasma shield.

While sufficient depth would blunt a solid projectile, it would also require more power to generate and contain the plasma necessary to do so. Still feasible, I suppose.

The plasma shield does play hell with electronics. Most missiles include a terminal phase in which the guidance system shuts down in order to counter this. Fighters are more or less immune if they have their own plasma shields. Still, most fighters keep their distance. Torpedoes can pierce plasma shields since they're long range kinetic kill weapons. The twenty-odd tungsten rods would be scattering long before they actually hit

TairaMai rollin' on dubs from El Paso Tx Since: Jul, 2011 Relationship Status: Mu
rollin' on dubs
#72: Oct 29th 2013 at 10:32:25 PM

In my 'verse here's the take on shields.

Since space is really big, most ships use point defense and ablative armor. Warships are made from asteroids or other suitable material (mined from moons or planets with low gravity but rich in metal ores). There is "hull plating" that can be polarized.

Jump drives and the Warp drives were mutually exclusive on Earth ships. Large jump ships would have smaller ships dock to them. Some would have the warp drive to shorten the weeks long trip from jump point to planet. Until Earth met the Cay this was the case.

The Cay Empire (latter the Cay Union) combined both drive technologies. There was a benefit in having a drive that could do both: the "A-fields" can act as an energy shield.

Since the warp drive bends spacetime in front of the ship, weapons fire or random objects are displaced away from the ship. A ship sitting still with the "A-field" up can disappear to sensors looking at it. Many Earth ships were lost fighting an enemy that was faster and could "disappear".

The downside is that these drives require anti-matter. Earth's scientists made cheaper (relatively speaking) anti-matter available for the war effort. From the hulks of Cay ships Earth figured out how to build them.

Yes the ship can deflect all weapons fire, it also can't see through the field either. Precise calculations are required. Of course there is the danger of having anti-matter on board. Using the A-field gobbles up anti-matter because of the power requirements, they go up exponentially in a gravity well.

So a shield is possible but it only lasts for a few hours at best and only if the ship is stationary or coasting.

There is artificial gravity, but only governments can afford it. Civilian ships use rotation instead.

Aside from some a few very lucky raiders who've gotten their hands on disabled warships, only governments can afford a "combo" drive. Anti-matter is expensive and out of reach for all but the largest corporations (mostly shipbuilders).

edited 29th Oct '13 10:54:16 PM by TairaMai

All night at the computer, cuz people ain't that great. I keep to myself so I won't be a case on The First 48
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apacalypse. from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apacalypse.
#73: Oct 29th 2013 at 11:13:06 PM

If you can make a broad screen of plasma you could also in theory make on point highly concentrated points of plasma. With guidance from even a decent targeting system you can cook quite a few things pretty quickly and pretty effectively.

My story doesn't quite have space due to a unique Pseudo Von Neumanesque device that caused a full blown Keppler Syndrome with frighteningly dense concentrated debris fields backed by weaponized satellites. The field is bizarrely complex and layered. There are only theories as to what is maintaining the field despite attempts to poke holes through the debris field. Some success has been made in cutting a strip out of the bottom layer. But shortly after the space is refilled again. Max time is about 3 weeks for the most successful effort.

edited 30th Oct '13 8:09:58 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?
ManInGray from Israel Since: Jul, 2011
#74: Oct 31st 2013 at 10:45:54 AM

Ghost Particle Beams rely on unstable dark matter, which decays into more familiar subatomic particles within nanoseconds
Orions Arm has a dark matter weapon called the Ghostlight; It emits two beams of Weakly Interacting Massive Particles, with one being of the other's antiparticles, so that they intersect inside the target, annihilating each other into a burst of gamma rays.

Autonomous Scanning Magnetic Rifle (ASMR):
I have a similar, lower-tech weapon called the Scorpio, still in search of a home;

An anti-material rifle, with a Metal Storm barrel that can fire up to two bullets at once to make the most out of a good shot. The gun itself is encased in a frame with a recoil management system, and gets pushed back into it when firing. This frame is held by two motors used to aim it up and down, standing on a rotating turret on the tripod. The tripod's legs are also mechanized, allowing it to stand up and crouch(allowing for quick peeks over cover), and hold onto things, sometimes by drilling into them. Two mechanical arms with telescopic cameras come out the sides of the gun-frame, close to the front; They can look in a different direction than the gun is pointing at to account for gravity and wind, and change their angles relative to each other to focus(like our eyes). A cluster of cameras is on a long mechanical arm, coming out of the turret behind the gun-frame, to keep watch over a wide area while the telescopic ones focus; It's usually set up to be directly above the turret's center, with the arm forming an arch behind the gun, and maintain the exact same location and orientation while the gun moves by moving in opposite directions. All the joints instantly lock down just before the gun fires.

Most of the device is covered by a "coat"(not coating) providing active camouflage and sound-dampening, which changes texture as well as image; It cannot mimic its surroundings in real time, with some scanning needing to be done first, but the device isn't very mobile anyway. A long cable, hardened and actively-camouflaged, connects the device to its control unit, allowing it to be used from further behind cover; Various wireless options are also available, including laser link, but each has its own drawbacks. Although the device cannot choose targets on its own, it can calculate wind, air pressure and gravity to aim itself at the necessary angle to hit a given point. It can also display the time it would take the bullet to reach the target and its estimated trajectory, and highlight the areas around the target that might be hit instead if the calculations are off, divided by likelihood. Its measurement of wind can be improved by placing extra sensors with some distance between them. It is light and compact enough to carry on the back when folded, and can quickly fold and unfold itself.

"Buckyshot"*Not sure where that name comes from, aside from "buckshot"
Bucky balls. tongue

MaxwellDaring MY EYES from Interzone Since: Jan, 2013 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
MY EYES
#75: Oct 31st 2013 at 8:21:35 PM

And another thing. I realized that while crossing interstellar distances, my Von Neumann probes would be bombarded by particles at relativistic speeds for several years. It would need some means of protecting itself. My first idea was to use a massive wall of ice interwoven with carbon nanotubes as a sort of pycrete on steroids. I'm not sure how well that would work.

edited 31st Oct '13 8:24:21 PM by MaxwellDaring

INSIDE OF YOU THERE ARE TWO WOLVES. BOTH OF THEM WANT YOU TO SHOOT ELVIS.

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