I dunno how I feel about Ultra Instinct being conscious in its own right, but I definitely broadly think Ultra Instinct should be written as being really different in terms of POV than any other form.
Also. In the main thread
I outlined what I mainly thought was partly a fix for Zamasu's ending, and partly how I wanted an intro and first meaning of Trunks and the Supreme Kai of Time to go.
My main thing is, first, I hate the two Zenos. Second, I don't quite like Esoteric Happy Ending, Hope Spot or Status Quo Is God.
...Yeah two Zenos upsets the status quo, but it's still dumb.
If you're going to fuck up the original Future Trunks ending from the Cell Saga manga, there should be some damn consequences. I dont object to that per se.
Also, like. There's a lot of holes in narrative structure in that arc to begin with.
And more than that. In Xenoverse and Online, I legitimately like Chronoa. Love her. She's a hot mess and a piece of shit, and she's great.
And I want her recruitment of Trunks (and Mai, because that's a thing) to start on a significant note. A major beat.
So. First, I think it's already implied, but I want it stated that Earth was the last stop of the Zero Mortals Plan. Just. Because Godzilla Threshold.
Second. The time nest and Chronoa's job have to matter. She freaks out when Beerus comes to Toki Toki City because he could fuck up everything there.
The time crystals in the time dimension, the scrolls in the time library, and the time rings all seem to be directly connected with timelines and events. When an event in history changes, it changes the scroll. When a new timeline is made, it makes a new time ring.
The time rings are kept in soft pillows in those boxes, seemingly to protect them.
Each time ring seems to in some sense embody a different timeline.
Each Kai gets their own time ring, but it would make sense to me if Chronoa has the. Master. Copy of each.
Anyway. I dislike grimdark for the sake of grimdark, but I dislike half-assing even more.
So, after everyone comes back with the Mafuba, I want to see Zamasu killing Yajirobe, growling in irritation and frustration, and then going full Buu with a Human Instinction Attack. Because none of this was fun anymore.
Barely anyone survived 17 and 18 and they didnt have the ability to sense ki. Or a specific, all-encompassing hatred for life. They take clothes and ride rides at a carnival.
I want it to be clear that Trunks and Mai were already the last mortals. And their timeline had no more Dragon Balls.
I still think Trunks should get the win there though. More than anyone he deserves it. Narratively it's the most satisfying ending. Trunks Mafuba/Super Saiyan Rage/both.
...I'd also appreciate, when Zen'O shows up, an offhand line about the Mortal Level in Universe 7 being highest, and the only one above zero. And still not good enough.
This Zen'O never met Goku, so.
Anyway, as Chronoa erases that timeline. She should be frazzled, and stressed, and exerting a lot of effort and energy and magic.
And then when it's done, it should also be clear that she really should not have done that, and just broke basically every single rule of her job. If any of the Zen'Os find out she erased one of them, that she can do that, she is beyond fucked.
But, because I'm petty, and Fanon Discontinuity or Canon Discontinuity, any of the Zen'Os finding out about each other is worse. She cannot let any of them out of their own timeline.
Then she offers Trunks her sales pitch. And, after he says yes, she tells him she has someone for him to meet, a new partner, and pulls out a seventh (well, sixth now) time ring that she keeps hidden at the bottom of her box, and keeps copies of it from getting out to any of the other Kais.
And she introduces him to the Cell timeline Bulma, who is already in Toki Toki/Conton City (well, it would just be a village or township at this point) because Chronoa already recruited her.
...Logically that timeline could have a Mai in it already, I dunno whether that should be pointed out.
I dunno how dark the consequences of time travel could or should be, but I want the reunion of Trunks and that timeline's Bulma to be the most uncomfortable thing. Trunks is crying and sad because his mom died, but Future Future Bulma is even worse.
Some of the Online and Xenoverse stuff implies that Chronoa guilt tripped Trunks into helping her because time travel is a sin, but after the Zamasu bullshit, I dont think that would work on Trunks.
Like. I still think she would say it, because it is still true.
But instead of focusing on him, Chronoa's pitch should focus on emphasizing that the sinners she's upset with and that need punishing or stopping arent Trunks, but people like Zamasu himself. And Cell. She shouldnt say anything about what Trunks has done with time travel.
For Bulma, though. I dunno if it might be too dark, but I sorta want Chronoa to have recruited Bulma as partly a way of stopping her from committing suicide? Because in Bulma's mind, she basically killed her baby boy.
Anyway, Chronoa's been keeping the Cell timeline hidden from all the others, and keeping the other timelines hidden from its gods. She shouldn't be, it's kinda against the rules, but there's a lot of issues with it. One, it's the timeline that produced Cell, so it and its gods deserve to be punished. Two, she needs it, or at least Bulma, because of her knowledge of time travel. Three, the only time machine in it is already gone, which means it isnt an immediate danger anymore. Bulma has no more resources to build another one.
...Also, since it isnt mentioned in the Zamasu arc. I have to assume Toriyama and everyone forgot about it, and I want it to be relevant. Zamasu didn't and couldnt find it, which is why he didn't mention it to Trunks.
Trunks's first job as the first member of the Time Patrol is to wreck the Cell Timeline's Babidi's shit.
Chronoa's deciding to be more proactive than she has for 75 Million years, and she needs help, including technology. Everything the Time Patrol uses is stamped with the Capsule Corp. logo, so she needs the Cell Timeline's Bulma. That timeline is her base of power and her ace in the hole for the Time Patrol.
Edited by unnoun on Oct 22nd 2018 at 11:00:21 AM
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
I'm glad someone read it! Thank you!
The Future Trunks ending is divisive, to say the least. Involving Chronoa would have fix a few issues.
Edited by Tomodachi on Oct 22nd 2018 at 10:41:26 AM
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
Like, people say the Goku Black arc goes to dark, but to me, the real problem is that it's too wishy-washy. As in, it can't tell how dark it really wants to be.
Like, Trunks getting powered up by the hopes of kids.
Kids standing out in the open, seemingly not even bothering to hide, even though the villain's entire thing is wiping out any mortals they can find.
It's one thing to get mad at the ending for being too down when everything up to it was more uplifting, and it seemed like they could pull through.
But, like. It being that uplifting at those points makes no sense, when explicitly one of the reasons the Zero Mortals Plan was taking so long was that Zamasu/Black liked toying with Trunks, and Trunks up and left at multiple points.
Like, Trunks's timeline was pretty fucked to begin with the last time we saw it.
The implication was that stopping the androids could give them a chance to survive and rebuild, but only barely. Back from the brink. Especially with the implication that Cell was lurking and hiding and trying to absorb people to become stronger, hindered mainly by the fact that 17 and 18 had killed too many people for him to easily get strong enough. Like he did in the series in the present. Rebuilding from that, maybe not impossible, but. Tough.
...Especially if Bibidi and Dabura are on Earth trying to gather energy for Buu, and finding it hard because of the low human population as well. They might be able to take Buu's egg and leave, but that could get the Supreme Kai's attention. Lot of risks there.
If you're going to undo that ending for Future Trunks, and have something worse happen. It has to get a lot worse to make Zamasu a threat. And, to be clear, I like Zamasu, and think that, idealogically aesthetically, thematically, he is the perfect contrast and successor to the androids for Future Trunks.
Not a bad contrast and update to the Majin Buu saga either. For Goku and company. When they introduced the Supreme Kai, and had Kibito being a dick to mortals because they're mortals. Pushing that thematic concern further, after the arc sorta drops it a bit and has the gods rely on the mortals, even though Buu getting released is a good ~50% or more their fault.
But like. Zamasu and the Androids are both basically shitty teens, but where the Androids are teens basically without motivation, acting out of boredom and hedonism and because nobody can stop them, Zamasu is a teen with nothing but motivation. Like one of those kids in your class that is way too intense about literally everything. Read some shitty philosophy book and won't shut up about it.
Making him also Goku is. I mean, sure, fine. Whatever.
In terms of power level, he's stronger than the androids were, and he can sense ki which they couldn't. And has instant transmission and/or Kai Kai.
If you're upping the stakes, which were already basically apocalyptic. I'm sorry, but that makes no sense.
Where Super went wrong, I think, is that people thought that Trunks's timeline was ever going to survive barring literal divine intervention. Which that timeline doesn't even have, I'm pretty sure. No gods, no angels, no dragon balls.
The stakes for Zamasu are that he wants to go to other timelines. Even after Earth, he's not even close to done with his plan.
...Additionally, it's mentioned at multiple points that everyone has to survive off of canned food, dog food even, because Zamasu has been destroying everything else edible.
...It doesn't make sense to me, given Zamasu is seen drinking tea at multiple points, and Goku Black's body needs food to survive, but. Supreme Kais can make Katchin, maybe he can make already dead tea leaves or animal carcasses. I don't know.
Meanwhile, a resolution where everything is just terrible forever isn't the best thing either. Zen'O in general isn't the best character, so him "fixing" everything doesn't come off great.
Whis has his own issues; I like him, but him shunting Trunks off is just. A really weird, rushed way to brush everything over.
So. Let there still be some pathos. And I think that Chronoa helping, trying to fix things and help out, and being seen struggling to do so works.
Additionally, giving a resolution to the Cell timeline, which was never really. Addressed. Is a thing I kinda always wanted Dragon Ball to do.
When you have a timeline where a Bulma lost a Trunks, and a timeline where a Trunks lost a Bulma. Putting them together sorta makes sense?
...I don't remember if we're allowed to link "Mature" fics, but Only Time Will Tell was "teen" when it started and only got the "Mature" label when the most recent chapter happened.
Mature fics on AO 3 are supposed to be less graphic than the "Explicit" fics, so. I dunno how that works.
...Anyway, it's about Bulma joining the Galactic Patrol after the Red Ribbon Army arc because she's bored.
It's a decent to pretty good premise, and I like it for that already, but more than that the world-building and dear lord the prose are some of the best in Dragon Ball fics.
...But I will say that. I dont agree with all the creative choices and some of the retcons? Vegeta and Raditz already knowing Bulma is. Odd. As is there being a Saiyan oc in the Galactic Patrol.
For the most part, this all works, and is some of the best written prose and character dynamics and character writing I've ever seen...
Until, that is, Vegeta and Bulma actually meet. Some of the interpersonal writing gets. I dunno. Weird. Not the best Vegeta and Bulma dynamic.
...Still, up to that point, the writing is fantastic.
It's. I would call it worth reading, and I would feel bad for anyone who doesnt read the good parts.
Edited by unnoun on Oct 23rd 2018 at 10:48:42 AM
So I was stewing in hate for my least favorite part of Dragon Ball Super, so have a fic someone else already wrote about it. When Super started airing.
...There's technically a sex scene, but doesnt get really explicit or specific so the author rated it Teen, so. I dunno. I can tell what's supposed to be happening, but. I dunno.
The rest of it is better and more important though.
I like Chi-Chi, but. That's her. That's what she believes. Like, its apparently what Toriyama believes for women too, but like. With Chi-Chi and her character and her archetype that is totally 200% what she is for and where she is from.
Gohan's support for Videl is true to him too. I love it, it's sweet. He's sweet.
And, finally, Videl.
That's. Yeah.
I don't 100% agree with the thesis the fic is driving towards, but every single detail or argument it makes is basically true. Everyone is perfectly, immaculately in character. Which is why its one of my favorite fics, even though it breaks my heart and I hate it.
I wish more fanfics or, well, the series itself, were able to identify or recognize these true things about these characters. And then actually work with them.
Such a shame.
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
The only dragon ball pics I actually bother to read are the ones you seem to recommend.
Probably because I know fan fiction will offer me something different, especially the ones not focused on fighting.
One Strip! One Strip!
Well, I guess I'll just have to break your confidence in me. Somehow.
...I dunno that I can top Dependence, the one I just linked. I sorta hate it, but. It's like those villain monologues where you keep trying to find a flaw in their reasoning and they just dont have one.
At the risk of grossing anyone out, theres three fics about Namekians and Childbirth I stumbled on?
So What's Love is the most graphic one as far as the details of human (well, Saiyan) childbirth go. And Goku's a girl.
I dunno if it should be rated mature or what, I think it falls just under personally? But if you dont wanna think about where babies come from. I dunno. I could see some of the concepts being too much for some people. Like tearing.
I like it a lot as an exploration of Goku though.
Birthing Shenanigans is less graphic, but also less well-written? Like, its funny in its own right, and Piccolo and Dende being horified by humans and our barbaric biology is still pretty great.
And finally Just One More which is more graphic than the last, but it's about Namekians giving birth instead of humans or Saiyans.
It also mentions tearing as a thing in Namekian birth, which. I dunno, when King Piccolo has his kids it looks pretty nasty. So thats believable.
...Its hard to remember but the Grand Elder Guru was basically the parent of almost all of the Namekians after the Great Drought.
Easy to forget about the original if you only know about the TFS version.
The Truth in the Name is maybe the meanest fanfic ever written, which is funny because it's basically a drawn-out rice pun.
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
I had this dumb idea about PreTeen Gohan and fission
At some point before the Cell Games, Piccolo teaches Gohan fission or at least the equivalent that Gohan can manage (dunno why he does this, still haven't work that out yet)
Then fast forward to 16 death, Gohan begins his transformation into SS 2/Super Gohan 2/Darth Gohan, but he's still scared of what he could become, so he is torn between transforming and holding back the transformation
That is until he starts glowing, a big flash happens as the figure seemingly split in two
By the time the light died down, Gohan is down panting in the ground...and another gohan in Super saiyan 2 is staring down at Cell
Edited by Fedetropes on Oct 30th 2018 at 8:11:17 AM
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Cue Cell kicking SSJ 2 Gohan’s ass due to fission halfing the power level of each member of the split.
I mean, when Gohan protects Vegeta and gets his arm broken, his power level goes down by half, and he still kills Cell after that.
So.
Since Super Saiyan 2 is twice Super Saiyan 1, officially, and if half of Super Saiyan 2 can kill Super Perfect Cell, then even Super Saiyan 1 could probably have done it if Gohan had actually tried.
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
Yeah, I figured there was a problem with it.
I was kinda going with the "one half gets most of the power" like what happened with Kami-King Piccolo and Buu, but I don't know if it works like that
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Im not sure if fission is a thing that can normally happen in that sense.
Like, I think it's a different thing from the Multi-Form Technique? Maybe?
When Tien and Krillin and Piccolo do the Multi-Form technique they don't become different people the way the Nameless Namek and Buu (and Android 21) do.
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
I was basing it on the nameless namekian and buu's fission, Gohan expels an evil...or well anti-heroic version of himself
I understand if the idea doesn't work, just something that's been on my mind and wanted to share
¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
So.
Since Super Saiyan 2 is twice Super Saiyan 1, officially, and if half of Super Saiyan 2 can kill Super Perfect Cell, then even Super Saiyan 1 could probably have done it if Gohan had actually tried.
unless that moment wasn't meant to follow any archaic system of logic and the focus was actually on Gohan having the perfect opportunity to use his remaining power to overwhelm Cell.
Krillin did slice Freeza's tail off purely out of luck without being anywhere near him in power level.
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
Alright, I'm only 18 minutes but... uh... y'all need to watch this. Sturgeon's Law in effect.
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
Already posted that in the main thread
Also I don't get how Sturgeon Law applies to an animation
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Love is Love is Love
Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap, but the remaining ten percent is great.
My various fanfics.
Call me Blast, not Fedetropes
I know that, but doesn't it apply to multiple stuff? (Like 90% of movies are crap but the 10% that remains)
What so the majority of the animation is crap but the rest is good?
¡PONLE QUE DIGA!:"¡HUMONGOSAURIO HASTA LA MUERTE!"
No, there are tons of fan-made Dragonball animations that fall into what-if territory. Plenty of people who just recolor sprites or try to create Dragonball X through Z.
There aren't many fan projects this well-made.
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
I have a weird fondness for Nappa in fanfiction. Only Time Will Tell does some of it, as do Enter the Nappa and All the Stars Ahead.
Oh, and, uh, not to toot my own horn, but A Spring Mother and her Baby Carrot is a fic I wrote!
Yay!
It's come down to this. I'm so lazy these days I can't even write out the story anymore.
So, Masako X had this what-if week where he covered "What if Bulma never met Goku?" But he ended it shortly after Boss Rabbit, or, at least he kind of wrote off the heroes as having not made it past that point. I got to thinking, "what if he was wrong and the story really could go further than that?" I thought the idea was pretty cool and decided to write my own version.
Link here.
Fair warning, this is some 50 chapters' worth of bulleted lists, pure stream-of-consciousness, aka not easy to read. But I got a lot farther on this what-if timeline then I thought I would. It's fun to push the timeline in ways it's not meant to go. I thought I'd have to call it quits around Boss Rabbit or Mercenary Tao, but I've made it to the Ginyu Saga. I'll probably have a more legible version later.
Edited by Soble on Nov 9th 2018 at 4:34:15 AM
I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!
I could be completely wrong, but Turtle almost seems to be heading to Paozu when he meets Goku and Bulma. The Dub of the Anime explicitly says he's going in the wrong direction, but when you see the direction he's facing anx the direction Goku and Bulma set out from the Capsule House, that seems to be true generally.
So, even if Goku and Bulma never met, I almost think Goku would still have met Turtle and therefore Roshi and Krillin.
...Although, on the other hand, given how much time Turtle would have taken to get to Goku's place, maybe not before Raditz showed up.
...Part of me doesn't quite think Raditz would have killed Goku just for saying no like you seem to outline.
Like. Goku attacked Raditz when they fought. To get Gohan back, sure, but.
In Raditz's words "Youth I might forgive, but idiocy has no place on a Saiyan mission" before they fight, and Raditz says he'll kill Goku.
Which, I dunno if that's true, in my book and from what I can see, a Saiyan Mission might be one of the best or only places for idiocy. Most concentrated, anyway.
But anyway, up to that point, up to Goku showing up with a slug to fight Raditz, Goku hadn't done anything that Raditz would kill him for.
I can almost see Raditz knocking him out, killing the 100 humans for him, and totally telling Vegeta that Kakarot did it.
Even though Goku's power level would be. I dunno, not much higher than 10.
Nothing a few Zenkai and a healing chamber couldn't fix though.
Chapter 2 of Spring Onion and Baby Carrot!
I'm not entirely happy with the Roshi sequence and the ending, but as I am now I don't know how to fix it, so.
‾\_(ツ)_/‾
Page Topper
Edited by Fedetropes on Oct 22nd 2018 at 8:06:26 AM
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