The General Religion, Mythology, and Theology Thread

I just try to be practical about it. As long as the belief (in whichever divinity) results in net good, I think it's okay.

Though, usually, this only apply to charity works, there are also times when religion saved knowledge or produced knowledge. The monks in the Middle Ages copied books, while Islam scientists were producing a lot. Of course, these days - there's the Religion vs Science thing...

Conversely, when idiots start using their belief in (whoever) to justify violence, just BLAH. This is why I don't even bother defending the Crusades.

edited 4th Apr '13 8:17:42 AM by probablyinsane

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.

One could argue that that was the case of people loving the good name of the organization over the well-being of children, not of people loving God over the well-being of children. In a sense, one could even say that these people made a god out of their reputation, which of course is one of the worst forms of idolatry.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

I can always count on Carciofus to call it like it really is.

It was an honor

No "real Christian" stuff please. The definition of Christian is solely those who believe in Christ and the teachings of the Bible.

And with how often the Word of God in manipulated for things like abuse, discrimination, and more... yeah, the Love of God doesn't ultimately help humankind. He's more or less a fictional being. Respecting his teachings, the real ones, is ultimately all that matters.

Love of Humankind is far more important than Love of God.

And considering how often God has taken vengeance on Mankind with plagues, like against the Egyptians, the entire Noah's Arc business... yeah, I doubt he's without bias at this point. So I don't believe that's any better than the love or your family having biased problems as well.

Well, religion really is like a tool. Depending on the person wielding it, it can do great good and also great evil. That was why Jesus couldn't stand the Pharisees.

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.

The problem is those rules don't work for everyone. Not everyone is gonna be happy following his rules even the right way.

No, that's not true. There are some core tenets to the teaching of Christ, and in the Bible overall. And if you don't follow them, you cannot call yourself a Christian. It is that simple.

And the truth is I too can list a ton of ugly things done in the name of love of people/family/friends. Guys that won't snitch on their bro for raping someone; parents that coddle and babysit their children into adulthood, ensuring they're useless as functional human beings; people that kill people over "love"; I can go all day.

It was an honor

They are meant to be the same thing. The idea is that god loves us more then anything and that if we love god more then anything then he will channel our love in such a way that it will benefit humanity. I believe it's meant to stop situations where you save one loved one over a dozen innocents. If you love god more then you will trust him when he instructs you to make the correct moral choice (saving the innocents).

Obviously problems comes about rather quickly, not jut because god has a track record of petty vengeance and destruction (see the entire Old Testament), but also because people confuse loving god with loving the church. You should actually love god above the church. As god is on the record as against child abuse your not loving god by abusing your child or allowing them to be abused by a priest. Your loving yourself, the priest or maybe even the church, but not god.

edited 4th Apr '13 8:27:00 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

Sorry, I swear I am not trying to be polemical, but...

Thomas Bradwardine says hi. So does Pope Sylvester II, and — if we count formal logic as a science, which we totally should — so do Peter Abelard, Albertus Magnus, Duns Scotus, William of Ockam and the other Scholastics. Oh, and Ramon Llull, who invented the first "thinking machine" (which, he believed, would have convinced all people ever of the truth of Catholicism). And I could continue for quite a while here.

Now, I am not denying that the Islamic civilization made very significant contributions to human knowledge, because it totally did. But European Medieval religious people did a lot more than "copying books".

edited 4th Apr '13 8:32:53 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

I wouldn't call those things done in the name of "love". More like a twisted obsession they think of as love.

Well, then I wouldn't call the abuses people like pinning on Christianity as actual Christianity.

About "petty vengeance", many of the more graphic instances of God's "petty" vengeance include God warning people to knock off whatever heinous shit they were doing several times before finally dropping the hammer as it were.

And the Old Testament is actually rife with God sparing people in spite of their crimes, repeatedly.

edited 4th Apr '13 8:32:46 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor

The line between obsession and love can be pretty thin at times. I can't be the the only person who would do some pretty horrible things to keep someone I love safe. With me it's actually reached the point that the person I love's best friend is genuinely afraid that I'd hurt her if she ever screwed up and hurt the friend that I love (which for the record is her being silly, she's screwed up plenty and I haven't even shouted at her), because I've made it very clear that if I had a choice between that which is best for the friend that I love and that which is moral. I'd go with what's best for the person I love (assuming no third option).

I call it petty because it includes things that are just related to god and what's good for god (or at least appear to be with our current understanding of morality), also because when god drops the hammer he has a tendency to throw the baby out with the bath water. Or drown the baby along with his entire civilisation, for something he had nothing to do with.

edited 4th Apr '13 8:35:47 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

I would agree if the rules of Christianity didn't seem as vague as it does. "Spare the rod, spoil the child" can be taken as an endorsement of abuse or as an endorsement of discipline in general.

edited 4th Apr '13 8:35:02 AM by Wildcard

Well, I've been considering that maybe I should just refer to myself as following Jesuism - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuism and Buddhism.

Okay, okay. It's good to know the Middle Ages have such stalwart defenders. FYI, I adore Ellis Peter's Brother Cadfael series. I actually had a xerox copy made of the only Brother Cadfael book in my uni's library. And brought a whole bunch of them at Singapore's Kinokuniya Bookstore. Derek Jacobi is perfect as Brother Cadfael though I do wish they had stuck with just one actor for the Sheriff.

edited 4th Apr '13 8:38:18 AM by probablyinsane

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.

"Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name."

I think there’s a global conspiracy to see who can get the most clicks on the worst lies

Try: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuism

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.

Sorry if I sounded too polemical. It's just, well, I work with formal logic in Real Life, and we are still taking a lot of cool ideas from the works of Scholastic thinkers (of course, we need to make them math-ier, and therefore better; but still ), and this is a bit of a passion of mine (I still have to learn Latin properly, though... )

I have not read that series yet. Thanks for the recommendation, I'll give it a try!

edited 4th Apr '13 8:39:34 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Jesuism looks good to me. I've previously described myself as more of a follower of Jesus so this is right up my street. Though it does kinda look like Jesus Was Way Cool, with a bit more organisation.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

Au contraire my dear Card. I know this because I had to throw this back in the face of my own abusive parents. Many abusers love to quote the 4th commandment as well as Ephesians 6:2-3

. Ah, but they ignore the very next verse Ephesians 6:4

See, it all goes back to taking the Bible in its entirety'. You can't cherry-pick what verses you will and won't follow.

It was an honor

I dunno why so often — in that page, for example — people contrast Paul with Jesus. Judging by the Gospels, Jesus was a lot more into Hellfire And Brimstone Preaching than Paul ever was...

Now, I will grant that some of Paul's letters betray sexist attitudes; but all things considered, it seems to me that — if anything — one could accuse Paul of being a stinking liberal who turned the severe Christian message into some sort of hippieish hugfest

edited 4th Apr '13 8:45:54 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

It's okay. You're right to be concern about this overall negative impression about the Middle Ages (cause it is not fair). Even though I like: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/Cadfael (a lot!), it's definitely not one of my favorite epochs of history.

And, I'm definitely found of Medieval Fantasy (extremely fond of King Arthur lore). Back in high school, there was a (very old dusty) book about it in the school library's storage which I begged the librarian to get. Lol, she didn't mind but she definitely thought I was crazy as no one had borrowed the book for years (that's why it was in storage).

I just try to not think about the Middle Ages. I'm sorry, but all the good the Christians did during that time is just so overshadowed by the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition. (sighs)

edited 4th Apr '13 8:46:06 AM by probablyinsane

Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.

Christianity IS a bit of a hugfest when you think about it. I'm surprised people don't use the Bible to justify orgies.

It was an honor

Maybe this would make more sense to somebody who studies the Bible. But:

What exactly does this mean? Only discipline using methods described in The Bible? Or only use the lords methods.

Might be because of how the Bible says you can only have sex while married.

edited 4th Apr '13 8:48:12 AM by Wildcard

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Well I wasn't expecting that... Actually the Spanish Inquisition was rather level headed for its time. It required evidence and refused to believe in witchcraft bring real.

challenge expected.

Edit: I think it means the lord's methods. Which going from the New Testament would be love, forgiveness, not passing judgment and all sorts of other hippy shit.

Edit 2: also allowance for self determination. As god has always allowed his children (us) a massive amount of self determination and control over our own lives. *gives Starship a look*

edited 4th Apr '13 8:53:04 AM by Silasw

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran