RWBY General Discussion

The more I think about this, the more absurd it gets. An armed team comes onto a military base to steal a fighter jet, a weapon of war, succeeds in disrupting the communications of the sixth-largest city on the planet, possibly (and in actual fact) killing several guards in the process, and it's "crazy" for the base commander to use power armor, to such an extent that everything that happens afterwards is her fault?

Edited by TwinBird on Sep 26th 2021 at 4:57:04 AM

My posts make considerably more sense read in the voice of John Ratzenberger.

Everything that happned after the MECH thing is assuredly her fault, as it directly resulted in negativity for the City and summoning the Leviathan. Now without the defense against it thanks to her pulling it out.

And yes, it's completely crazy. Put aside exaggerations there...None of that's in the show, were shown her getting pissed because of Maria trolling her with the Cashews and then she pulls a superweapon out, and she basically says the reason she's doing this is to show off Atlas might.

Edited by Snoketrope on Sep 26th 2021 at 2:03:21 AM

The First man

Exaggerations? I did not exaggerate a single word.

My posts make considerably more sense read in the voice of John Ratzenberger.

"Like how he randomly decides he's all for Ironwood in one scene but then we don't get any build up from that. Like, if it was more gradual, then it would make sense.

"

Mostly because they show dosent really have people debating were james or RWBY are doing the right thing, they stick on their position

"They didn't 'Have her' Do crap, and stealing the airship was basically there best option. "

It is still their fault and saying "cordovin made me do it" is still wrong, as far cordovin is concern, they are a bunch of nobody who decide to enter just because.

there is a reason fandom didnt like the end of season 6 since the whole thing feel contrived , there is also another stuff like Adam SOMEHOW managing to get a head of Blake and having time to murder the guards to catch her, which mean he somehow knew about the plan which it should be imposible unless is stealh power are over 100.

Or the fact that cinder bypass ALL THAT by...using a crminal network, really if Qrow could just bribe some spider and would be on ironwood door in a second, crime do really pay off.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

No, it wasn't wrong. It was against the rules, that's not the same thing.

And again, it dosent make them responsible for Covordin being nuts.

And, when is it indicated that the Spiders had anything to do with Cinder getting into Atlas?

Edited by Snoketrope on Sep 26th 2021 at 2:27:55 AM

The First man

Sorry, she use the spider to know were ruby is headed, them they stole a ship and just head to atlas, easy peasy without much dificulty were RWBY have to stole and airship and fight a crazy woman with a mecha.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

stealing the airship and sabotaging comms was absolutely wrong lmao wtf

She didn't use the criminal network to bypass the system though, just find out where Ruby is going.

Not really? There on a mission to save the world and it's there best option, they don't kill anyone they just...steal shit, so what?

The First man

There's a big fucking difference between "stole something" and "stole a military jet while sabotaging the communications equipment of a town that can be exposed to grim attacks".

The rest of the it is a question of whether the ends justify the means and given that they had alternatives I don't think their incredibly reckless plan was at all justified.

What alternatives did they have? They tried to get through legally and the only one Cordovin would let in was Weiss

Send Weiss, contact Ironwood

Like. I know Jacques is awful and no-one should have to deal with that situation.

But stealing military equipment and messing with a city's defense systems to avoid that is really fucking hard to defend, especially when it plain wasn't there only option.

And, you know, ends =/= justify means.

Because Ironwood, the guy who started the blockade in the first place and was previously fine with Weiss being stuck in Jacques' house (because there's no way he just doesn't realize her situation when he sees her in the house, hears her literally sing about her captivity, and has Winter as a second source) is the guy they wanna put their trust in to help them out? I mean, we all saw how he turned out, but he already wasn't exactly somebody they could trust offhand.

As a group, not sending one person and just hoping he'd listen

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Sep 26th 2021 at 10:11:08 AM

but they were literally going there to see him??

I feel like people are falsely equating Ren's Issues to the Cordovin situation. Except he never specifically brought up the Cordovin situation. This was the direct quote from RWBY V8 E4 "Fault".

Now, let's dissect this piece by piece.

This is true. Huntsman academies are specifically four year institutions, whereas they didn't even finish their first year. It's just the Fall of Beacon and Salem sending Tyrian after Ruby forced them into the Secret War earlier than they should have, no longer giving them the luxury of finishing their training, but in turn leaving them inexperienced and unprepared.

They weren't ready when that happened, nor can it even be attributed to them. Lionheart led them into a trap where they were ambushed by Cinder, Raven, Vernal, Hazel, Mercury, and Emerald. The only reason Haven Tower wasn't destroyed was due to the intervention of the Faunus Militia, something they had no way of knowing about, and the only reason Salem didn't immediately gain the Lamp of Knowledge was because of Raven betraying Cinder, something they also couldn't have known of. As far as they knew, they sent Yang alone to confront two maidens and a trained huntsman with only one arm, which would have been a death sentence for her had Raven truly been on Salem's side and Vernal had been the actual Spring Maiden. The fact they saved Haven was thanks to pure luck.

They didn't take down the Leviathan. Ruby tried using her eyes on it, but it only stopped it for less than a minute, and was all set to attack her were it not for Cordovin's last minute Heel–Face Turn, resulting in her using the Colossus to impale and kill the Leviathan, and suddenly allowing the heroes to go to Atlas with no further issue.

Again, true. The moment after meeting Pietro and seeing Penny was alive again, they got ambushed by the Ace-Ops and Clover took the Lamp. Since they had no idea Clover was directly reporting to Ironwood, they technically already "lost it" there, only for him to give it back after they met with Ironwood. Oscar then held onto it, only to lose it to Neo when she attacked him when he was all alone, with their attempt to get it back failing due to her tricking Oscar and playing on Ren's emotions when she turned into Nora, and some horrible writing in regards to where everyone even was in terms of placement.

This is more debatable. At the time when Ren said this, the only decisions they truly made and that Ren was aware of were:

• Yang and Blake telling Robyn about Amity, which didn't immediately secure Robyn's trust but did eventually, but also convinced Ironwood they couldn't be trusted with contributed to his turning on them.
• Going against Ironwood, which, yeah, that was a good decision no matter how you try and spin it.
• Dividing into two groups to try and fix Amity and help the people of Mantle, with the latter prematurely ending once Oscar got nabbed by the Hound.
• Chasing after the Hound into the tundra to save Oscar, which only resulted in them getting stranded out there, down two bikes, and emotionally exhausted.

Again, true. At the time, they really did have no plan aside from the vague hope RNBW would start up Amity, which again, Ruby did hope would get people magically there to help them as proven in RWBY V8 E11 "Risk", They were stuck in the tundra with the cold chipping away at their aura, Salem had Oscar and the Lamp in her possession, and they had no back up outside of the Happy Huntresses, who they just left to handle Mantle due to needing to save Oscar.

Again, even if hard to accept, true. No doubt Ironwood's The Elites Jump Ship plan was going to fail, but by keeping Penny from him, they unintentionally set into motion the entire bruhaha over her getting hacked, along with the many soldiers that died trying to stop the Grimm spewing out of Monstra from zerg rushing Atlas, which only happened because it was still stuck where it was. At least had Penny willingly helped Ironwood, not only would she never have been hit with the virus, but the deaths would be on his hands entirely, not partially on the heroes.

And this is the crux of the issue and Ren's reason behind his rant: they can't do this themselves. While Yang is quick to accuse Ren of giving of Ironwood what he wants, that's not what Ren was doing. Ren wasn't arguing what Ironwood wanted was right, he was arguing what they did wasn't working. The two aren't the same thing. He was saying that they can't do this on their own. They need someone to make the tough decisions because they aren't ready to do so themselves.

And notice, Yang doesn't have a counterargument to that. Instead, she just accuses Ren of trying to push everyone away, rather than admit he has a point.

Edited by RebelFalcon on Sep 26th 2021 at 10:21:06 AM

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

Yeah, uh, even if they went through with the plan of sending Weiss to Atlas, there is no guarantee Ironwood would be willing to invite them. Worst case scenario, Weiss is now stuck away from her team and friends, smack-dab in the middle of the growing unrest with her terrible dad and an increasingly worsening second father figure, and the rest of the group is similarly stuck in Argus.

Was it a terrible idea to hijack a military aircraft and jam comms? Yes. Were there better ideas available? Not really. About the only other thing the team could have done would be asking Jinn for advice ("How can we get to Atlas without causing trouble?" or something like that), but that disables the Lamp and is not even guaranteed to give them a solution.

Edited by FergardStratoavis on Sep 26th 2021 at 4:30:27 PM

grah

They could've sent Qrow along with Weiss by exploiting his bird transformation. Either trick Cordovin into openly letting the bird on as a pet Weiss keeps, hiding him in some "luggage", or just flying onto the ship.

and was previously fine with Weiss being stuck in Jacques' house (because there's no way he just doesn't realize her situation when he sees her in the house, hears her literally sing about her captivity, and has Winter as a second source) is the guy they wanna put their trust in to help them out?

When he first ran into Weiss he took the time to imply she could stay at Atlas Academy instead of the Schnee manor once it was opened back up with him talking about how she'd always have a home at Atlas Academy.

Edited by doineedaname on Sep 26th 2021 at 11:01:49 AM

It's not even played as "this is wrong, but we have no other choice," but "stupid Cordo is making us do this stupid thing, and stupidly not letting us get away with it, either" (as has been the tone of this thread).

My posts make considerably more sense read in the voice of John Ratzenberger.

The only reason I brought up the Cordo situation was because that was their first real decision they made without any adults telling them what to do and even then, it was an extension of Oz's instructions to take the Lamp to Atlas.

Not like they were going to use it anyways because their intent was to just dump it in Atlas. In fact, it would benefit them a lot if they used that question since if in a situation where they lost the lamp, Salem has 100 years at most of time she needs to waste.

Edited by Psyga315 on Sep 26th 2021 at 10:20:32 AM

We have no idea if Weiss would be able to contact Ironwood, she would be under Jac again and it's not at all guaranteed she would still be able to get in contact with James. Between risking your friend being put into that situation and just stealing something, the former is the worse option.

Again, it's just robbery. It's against the rules, but they don't kill anyone or do anything bad from a moral standpoint

The First man

That just makes it sound worse than it already is.

You know, if the kids did think to use the Lamp, Cinder would not have been able to know what Ruby was planning in Volume 8, and likely Team RWBY and Jaune would not have fallen to the island.

For the record, I do think we’ll be seeing them again just because Ruby, Weiss, Blake, and Yang are the protagonists. And yes I have seen the Volume 9 teaser.

You know, I have to wonder why Pit is obsessed with this site. It’s gonna ruin his life!

I was going to point this out myself. Technically, the reason Cordovin went for the disproportionate response is because Maria decided to bait her. Cordovin was pissed off with the kids, yes, but it was Maria who sent her stratospheric.

The problem the heroes had was two-fold:

• How do you convince Atlesian soldiers who slavishly obey orders from military command to disobey military orders and let you through, when they've got no way to verify you have the connections you claim to have, thanks to no CCT.
• How do you handle a base leader with an insane ego and a personal grudge going back decades towards a member of your party... who herself has absolutely no desire to hold back pressing that leader's buttons?

The first problem was poorly handled from the outset by the heroes: Qrow said, at the very beginning of the volume, that they needed to play their cards right to be able to get the military to let them go to Atlas.

Did they plan a strategy? No. They joked about having Weiss as their trump card and teased her about her precarious situation at home. But they didn't bother planning anything.

Team JNPR took it upon themselves to visit the base when they arrived in Argus, and failed. As it happened off-screen, we have no idea which side blew it, but we do have a hint that Cordovin and Nora hit it off badly, and that's probably how it fell apart.

Knowing that, did the heroes try to plan a new approach? No, they didn't. They planned so little, in fact, that Team JNPR's experience didn't even make Maria realise in advance that they'd been dealing with Cordovin. They knew they had an uphill battle back in at beginning of V6 ("play our cards right"), and that it was now much tougher after Team JNPR's experience, but they still didn't bother planning anything.

They instantly concluded that their only option was to steal an airship (no other options discussed or explored) using their joke fall-back (Weiss), their ex-terrorist (Blake), an old lady (who enjoys pressing the base commander's buttons at every opportunity), and a creepily trainable baby as their lynchpins.

Despite this, the plan is actually implied to have been capable of succeeding — and would have — if not for Adam.

So, really Adam scuppered the plan, which allowed Cordovin to find out about it. Then it was Maria's inability to stop pressing Cordovin's buttons, and Cordovin's complete lack of self-control where Maria is concerned, that caused Cordovin to lose her rag so completely that she sent out a giant mech instead of scrambling fighters as she was supposed to do.

Ironically, given Qrow's assessment of the military's normal response, it really does sound like the heroes would have been screwed if Cordovin had responded properly. It would be nice if we could say that Maria deliberately provoked Cordovin because her own experience of the military and Cordovin's personality meant she knew she had to find a way to avoid the "normal" response to what they had done. However, given that Maria was as taken aback as anyone by the mech response, it's almost certainly the case that she made Cordovin snap purely because she wanted to because, like Cordovin has no self-control when her buttons are pressed, Maria has no self-control where pressing Cordovin's buttons are concerned.

So, in the end, the mess really came down to the following things:

• The Atlesian military's loyalty to orders and the chain of command being inflexible (foreshadowing the Atlas Arc, but implied to be something Qrow was aware of, given that he said from the outset that they'd have to play their cards right).
• Cordovin's massive ego, Maria's constant desire to poke that ego, and the complete lack of self-control the two women have in how they deal with each other.
• The heroes not bothering to come up with any plan of action to negotiate in the first place — even though they had enough knowledge to know, predict and/or reasonably estimate the above two bullet points in advance of Team RWBY's attempt — which meant they were never going to be able to handle the situation well from the outset.
• Adam's attack on Blake (which the heroes couldn't have predicted without having audience-level knowledge).

Really, had the heroes actually sat down and started trying to properly plan and strategise, instead of only bothering to do that after the horse has bolted (and even then coming up with a plan that guaranteed the military would have to go after them for theft and sabotage), then the only thing they'd have had trouble with would have been Adam (as, even with a good plan of action, they still wouldn't have been able to predict Adam).

However, once they were left with that option and carried through with it, the main culprits in how bad things got were Adam, Cordovin, Maria, and — I'm afraid — Ruby, whose speech to Cordovin on the cliff was not heroic and just came across as a spoiled brat whose own ego was now starting to get in the way almost as much as Cordovin's; I have very big problems with most of Ruby's speeches — not all of them, however, but a break down of why is something best left to a dedicated post.

The Weiss part of the plan pretty much showed us that there was an alternative option: Take Weiss, you can put Maria or Ruby into the suitcase as you wish, and take along her pet bird (a crow). That's Weiss plus two allies. You could leave the pilots in command of the ship for the whole journey there if you want (so Ruby in the case rather than Maria). Ruby would be in a position to help Weiss should her father become an issue, while the pet bird flies off and goes straight to Ironwood.

If you want the Maria option, then you can have Weiss and Maria do exactly what we saw happen: the airship goes to Atlas, engages in an evasive landing, wait in Pietro's while Qrow wings his way to Ironwood. Then get Ironwood to send for Weiss and send an airship to Argus to pick up the rest of the gang.

Yes, Qrow's confidence was shot to hell, but he got talked into being more helpful by Ruby, so she could have done that no matter what plan they came up with.

That's why I mentioned "They instantly concluded..." above. Because, they actually didn't sit down and have any kind of strategy session. They had no plan of approach for the military base, and suffered the consequences, then had to tell JNPR about Ozpin, then had to search for Oscar, and all while Qrow was getting plastered.

So, they didn't sit down and discuss what options they had available to them. Only one option was ever considered. They went straight from "door slammed shut" to "we've got to steal an airship by sabotaging communications — there's nothing else we can do!"

Even here, I'm just spitballing. I'm betting if we sat down and thought through things, we could probably come up with multiple options. The point is that the creators wanted the heroes to steal military equipment and sabotage communications equipment because they wanted a mech fight and an Adam fight. That's fine, I don't personally have any particular problems with the way they wanted to do things, but the heroes most definitely do carry culpability for what happened. It can't be placed entirely on Cordovin's (and Adam's) shoulders.

If we deal with knowledge the characters have (which is what I've done above), then the characters trust Ironwood at this point. As far as they're concerned, the only problem is how to reach him. They don't see him as a problem. As a result, no plan they come up with in Argus will ever factor in not being able to trust Ironwood or Winter. That is a problem that only crops up later on, after they've reached Atlas.

This is actually something that's quite important. When they lash out at Ozpin after Jinn's reveal, and again when passing the information on to JNPR, the attitude is how do they win against her. How do they defeat her?

But Ozpin never gave them any instructions to deal with Salem. He wanted them to protect the Relic at Haven. He wanted them to take the Relic to Ironwood. But he never gave them any instructions to go and fight Salem. The most he ever did was prepare them for her minions.

And we've seen this with his older allies. In all these years of working for Ozpin, of fighting against Salem, Ozpin has never sent Qrow against Salem. He didn't even know what she looked like until Emerald's illusion in Haven. Raven's heavily implied that her learning the truth about Salem had nothing to do with Ozpin sending her against Salem. Thanks to Qrow, it looks like whatever Summer's last mission and confrontation with Salem were about, it wasn't because Ozpin told her to do it.

Ozpin's approach to "fighting against" Salem has consisted of the very strategy Taiyang told Yang to employ in Volume 4: if you have an obstacle that you can't bulldoze through, you shouldn't even try — find a way to work around it, instead.

That's all Ozpin ever got his followers to do. Now, Ironwood spotted this in Volume 2, which is why he felt that Ozpin was hiding something. He couldn't understand why Ozpin was working around Salem and fighting the symptoms of her instead of going straight for her and targeting the cause instead unless Ozpin knew something about the situation that he wasn't telling them.

So, since the heroes' only mission was to take the Relic to Atlas, what would they do after delivering it to Atlas? Their mission's over at that point. With Ozpin gone, they've got a choice: they can either walk away (their mission's finished, after all) or they find a reason to stay in the fight. What happened was that Ironwood asked them to stay in the fight, and Ruby accepted on behalf of everyone.

Now, the interesting thing is that, while Ozpin never got them to take the fight to Salem, Ironwood wanted them to do exactly that. Despite never being ordered to take the fight to Salem, the heroes turned on Ozpin as though that's precisely what he had done. Now, taking the fight to Salem is indeed what the heroes assumed they were doing, and Ozpin did let them think that. However, despite knowing that Salem couldn't be killed, when Ironwood asked them if they'd help him take the fight to Salem for the purpose of destroying her once and for all, Ruby agreed — despite knowing that it was impossible for his plan to achieve its goal (because she knew that Salem could not be destroyed).

By the time Ruby gets around to giving her "you can't be killed, but you can fail, so we can defeat you by defeating your schemes" she's hit Ozpin's territory — which is exactly how Ozpin has been fighting her for thousands of years. The problem for Ruby is that she then takes it a bit further... Ozpin's approach is clearly "defeat her schemes, but accept she'll keep coming back, so just keep defeating her schemes". Ruby's decided that she doesn't want to defeat Salem's schemes, she wants to defeat Salem herself. As if that'll achieve an outcome different to the stalemate Ozpin's had with her for millennia. But, that's where Salem indicates that Ruby is thinking like her mother, who already tried that tactic and failed.

Now, in this type of story, the failure of the previous generation is because they did it alone. The hero succeeds because they have back up — they work as a team instead of alone. It was a big theme in the Buffy series — Buffy was the most successful Slayer ever because she rejected the tradition of it just being the Slayer and her Watcher against the world. She had friends and allies, and team-work was the difference that mattered.

This show is all about the team-work, right down to the very war between the Big Bad and Big Good that's driving the entire plot being about the need to divide and conquor precisely because the power of unity and team-work will scupper her ultimate goal. In Volume 8, even Cinder accepted that, sometimes, team work is the way to go to achieve your goal.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Feb 16th 2023 at 7:36:43 PM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

This is probably where Alternate Character Interpretation kicks in, but I could see the reason why they initially got salty at Salem's immortality is that it's the culmination of their collected angst piling up until its breaking point.

Like, just a few months ago, they lost their home and a few friends. Their psyches have been damaged. Some more than others (i.e. Jaune and Yang). All because of Salem. They're still teenagers and they want this "inconvenience" solved quickly so they can go back to what remains of their life. And for them, that idea is that the way to solve that inconvenience is to shoot it in the head. When they find that they can't and that they're practically conscripted to a Forever War, they, being mentally traumatized kids who just went through near-death experiences and other troubling shit no kid has to go through, predictably freak out. Some even more than others by lashing out against Oscar/Ozpin.

When Ruby stated that she will take the plunge to defeat Salem's schemes and not just Salem, I could argue that's because she saw how Ironwood, someone who thought exactly like them, momentarily chose to work with who he considered an arch enemy for the betterment of a place he earlier dismissed as "a few city blocks". She began to realize the benefit of working together on a larger scale and was convinced that their plan could work.

So when Salem told her that her mom thought that exact same thing and that she failed... It sent her into panic mode because "well shit, if beating Salem isn't going to work and if beating her plans isn't going to work, then what will?", especially since she just got the hard confirm that Salem had something to do with her disappearance. After this and subsequently working against Ironwood since he began to backtrack to his original ideology, she ends up doubting her ability as leader, something that took a bit of Volume 8 for her to hash out.

TL;DR: They got upset that fighting Salem isn't going to be super simple and that they would have to fight for the rest of their lives. It's only when Ironwood began to work with Robyn does Ruby realize that there could be a better way, though Salem's retort mentally broke her a bit.

I don't think the idea that trauma that's been piling up just exploded when the truth came out. It was lampshaded most heavily with Qrow's situation, but it was the case for everyone there. The irony that's been most discussed, of course, is that this includes Ozpin, too. His trauma is, at the same time, both the most displayed and the most hidden, and consequently is therefore the most ignored by everyone present.

However, I don't think Ruby was thinking about plans and what would and would not succeed against Salem. Not in that moment, anyway. I don't think that she could move past the fact that Salem had mentioned her mother at all. That alone completely blind-sided her. All she was focussed on in that moment was the idea that Salem knew her, that what's implied to be her last memory of her mother wasn't the happy, heroic, light-filled image she conjured in front of the Leviathan, it was the sad, tragic, storm-filled image she conjured in front of Salem. Her focus was on the sudden realisation that her mother's last mission had something to do with Salem and that Salem therefore had something to do with her mother's death. I don't think she was the only one; it's hard to see, but Yang was in tears when she rushed to cradle Ruby, so she was probably thinking along similar lines.

---

Complete aside, but I rewatched Volume 7, Chapter 4 today, and something in the graduation scene popped out at me, thanks to hindsight. We see a close-up of Penny holding her scroll, listing all Teams RWBY and JNPR's active licences. It says "Atlas Huntsman Licence Registry".

That's fine, we all saw that on first viewing. However, now we know that the entire kingdom has been totalled — and submerged under icy water. That's a huge loss of information in general, but that's going to include the loss of Atlas' Huntsman licence registry, too.

While individuals may have their licences on their own scrolls, there's no longer a registry to refer back to confirm things like genuine licences, who's active and who's not, and any other information that registry stores.

While the loss of information, technology, scientific endeavour has been mentioned, and we've had discussions about the business holdings (for example, does the SDC have any other head offices elsewhere on Remnant that can take up the slack), and even some brief conversations about how world economies and stock markets may react, I'm not sure if we've ever really discussed the loss of Huntsmen information. I wonder how many students lost their weapons, for example: there were Academy students down in the subways with the rest of the population. They were in their school uniforms, and were not carrying weapons as a result. Then again, they weren't fighting to defend the kingdom either. It was another similarity to the Beacon Arc — we saw students fleeing with the population, and even in tears. We spend so much time with the heroes, it's hard to remember that other kids in the school won't be ready to deal with this threat level yet — they're not heroes, they're just school kids.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Sep 26th 2021 at 11:12:57 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Oh man, catching up on this. From what I recall, Miles outright admitted that the crew were honestly surprised at the negative reaction to the Argus Heist. Their reasoning being that it's a Fantasy-Adventure series, and they never intended for that part to be super-realistic or something people would pick apart and moralize. The Adam v. Bees fight was intended to be heavy, while the Mecha battle/heist was intended to be more light-hearted and just plain fun Fantasy stuff.

They intended it to be a fun, teenage wish fulfilment of Screw the Rules, I'm Doing What's Right!. And people took it incredibly serious, and got upset that the heroes were criminals.

In terms of not having a more nuanced or diplomatic plan, I think the Relic and Oscar himself were both factors that placed extra pressure on them. From what they'd been told, the Relic is a Grimm magnet and they know the bad guys are hunting for it. They also know that Oscar is going to be a target, since Oz revealed himself and Hazel escaped the Haven battle.

So, having already been burned twice (or three times, if we count Raven) authority figures, they had absolutely zero interest in trying to be diplomatic with Argus base. They'd also just been reunited, so probably didn't want to send Weiss off on her own after she'd had to risk so much to escape.

Honestly though, I have to wonder whether this may end up coming back later on in the series. With Atlas gone, the Argus base is basically the only thing left. They clearly saw the broadcast, so know that Atlas is under attack. So will they show up late to the party and unite with the surviving Atlas fleet?