RWBY General Discussion

The Beyond Redemption Trope has basically nothing to do with what the villain does, it's the Hero giving up on trying to redeem the Villain.

Also, I realized that something's been bugging me, and it's just now that I've come up with the words to articulate it.

• In Season 2, Yang talks at length about Summer Rose, or as she liked to call her, "Supermom".
  • Summer loved her and treated her like she was her own, even though Raven was her biological mother.
• Once she meets Raven for the first time (not counting the retconned Volume 2 scene), she calls her "Mom", despite Raven being, essentially, a complete stranger.
• And after meeting Raven, she didn't talk about Summer at all for the rest of the series.

Why? Why does Yang suddenly forget her "Supermom" and call a complete stranger "Mom?" Raven abandoned them when they were young, and Summer was the one to raise her for at least five-ish years. But nope, it's the plot that makes her switch ways all of a sudden.

Yang, you disloyal-

Edit: formatting

Edited by Dacool1here on Mar 1st 2020 at 8:55:38 PM

Raven is still her biological mother.

Things are really about to get Fun around here

Because she (and Ruby) accepted that Summer died on a mission. Summer's end was pretty clear cut in her eyes versus the still very much alive biological parent that had abandoned her.

As for why she called Raven "Mom"...because she IS her mother even if she doesn't act like it. Also, you didnt catch the tone of Yang's voice? She wasnt exactly happy to meet her.

None of that is plot contrivance. Shes been searching for her birth mother for at least a decade in world time and since the yellow trailer in our time.

Why doesn't she mention Summer?

Let's see between their meeting and the current point theres been an Ambush at Haven, the train crash, Ozpin's story, Brunswick, the Plane heist, Adam, Mantle and its Civil unrest, missions as liscenced huntsmen, her budding relationship with Blake, Ironwood's freakout and Warrant for their detainment and Salem showing up with a Whale the size of a city with Demon Flippers and something something etc. Within the span of a month at most. I think it's understandable that Summer isn't mentioned when so much is going on at the same time.

If you can't handle being outed by a signature, that's on you.

Her first use of 'Mom' came across to me as loaded with sarcasm and disdain. It was said in a tone that was looking for a fight.

When she later uses the 'Because we're family' and crosses her heart with both hands, that's pure sarcasm as well.

It very much comes across to me as tossing in Raven's face the difference between what she should be and what she really isn't.

Beyond that, Raven is Yang's mother and, no matter how angry and disappointed in her Yang may be, Yang did spend years searching for her so she's always been 'Mom' to Yang on some level.

It does jar a bit when she refers to Summer by name, but that's also happened in conversations with other people that have involved the different parent relations that the two sisters have, so it's almost like a clarification. That said, I did like the fact it was Yang who ran to Ruby when Ruby collapsed in front of Salem — it wasn't just because Yang is Ruby's sister and surrogate mother, but because what happened to Summer should also hurt Yang as well, as the woman Yang thought was her mother until she learned about Raven.

You know, it's weird to think that Salem probably had that conversation in Ironwood's office from the back of a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers. it's probably a good thing the detail started fading from Salem's appearance from about her shoulders down... imagine that Seer Grimm trying to manifest the whale in Ironwood's office.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Mar 2nd 2020 at 10:12:16 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Oh, that's the rest of that phrase.

If you can't handle being outed by a signature, that's on you.

In a way, yang still bitter about raven and havent let it go, in fact she angry against ozpin kinda sorta feel a leftover of her resentment to her, like she is angry because another parent figure lie.

if anything, that inhability to let go resenment kinda make her look like Adam.....is just intersting how much foil she is of him.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

x3 You know, I was just thinking that maybe the reason why Raven bolted was not just because she discovered that Salem is immortal but also because she has a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers at her beck and call.

Sure, immortal enemy is already scary enough, but adding a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers to that? No wonder Raven fly away.

I assure you, I'm a completely trustworthy person.

It makes you wonder exactly what Qrow's been seeing, out there beyond the kingdoms. Remember what he said in Volume 3?

"I've seen the things she's made. And, let me tell you: they are fear!"

I wonder if even Qrow had a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers in mind when he said that. It was even Ironwood he was saying that to.

Look at them now.

In a volume dedicated to fear.

Eat your words, Qrow. Eat your words.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Mar 2nd 2020 at 10:39:21 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

It make you wonder why of all things salem could have made, she went for sperm whale.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

Wasn't Sin in FFX a giant whale like thing?

Also, Moby Dick.

Kaze ni Nare!

I'm sorry, but "Giant Flying Sperm Whale with Oversized Teeth and Dragon Wings for Flippers" is still so god damn funny to me! I'm having trouble stopping myself from laughing when I see it in a post!

Edited by RebelFalcon on Mar 2nd 2020 at 5:56:07 AM

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!

Sorta, but not quite as closely resembling a whale as Salem's giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers.

Sin's head part◊ is grotesquely whale-like, but the rest◊ is more eldritch◊ or Biblical-Leviathany◊.

Edited by TheAirman on Mar 2nd 2020 at 5:20:21 AM

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They

Riding in on a Giant Flying Sperm Whale with Oversized Teeth and Dragon Wings for Flippers, in a revenge dress.

Well, when I first saw the giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers, I immediately thought of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, hence my quote in my episode response post. But right on the heels of that came Moby-Dick — especially since Ironwood's going through a bit of a Captain Ahab phase right now.

It took a little while longer for the Pinocchio reference to kick in because I tend to think of the dogfish first (I'm more familiar with the literature than the Disney film), but then I remembered the sperm whale in Pietro's office back in episode 1 and it clicked.

But, honestly, we have Geppetto freed from the burden of having to sacrifice his Aura to keep rebuilding his artificial child and Pinocchio has just become a real girl. Cue them being swallowed in V8.

Well, as I said in my episode response post, a female villain's increasing threat level can be directly correlated to the increasing size her Cleavage Window.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Mar 2nd 2020 at 11:29:37 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

Also, I can see where the Moby Dick comparisons could come from, but is Ironwood really that much like Ahab here? His big villainous plan after he went crazy wasn't to try and kill Salem at all costs. It was to blast himself and a few others into space and hope things work themselves out. He's running away. I haven't read MB, but from what I understand Ahab's downfall was because he couldn't bring himself to do that.

Edited by GNinja on Mar 2nd 2020 at 11:30:21 AM

Kaze ni Nare!

It's the idea of becoming so focussed on achieving one goal that absolutely everything else gets sacrificed in the pursuit of that goal — including sanity itself.

So, Ironwood's plan doesn't have to be hunting Salem, or even her giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and dragon wings for flippers. His 'whale' in this case is saving Atlas.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Mar 2nd 2020 at 11:37:11 AM

If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.

(makes a crass joke about Oscar being a 14-year old with an ancient divorcee in his head, whose ex-wife just showed up with an increased.....threat level?)

Getting swallowed by the whale definitely allows for a classic Womb Level adventure?

Ahhhh, that makes sense.

No joke, if Oscar is at any point aroused by Salem because of screwed up memories of her being his wife, I might actually shrivel into a husk from how horrifying that would be.

Edited by GNinja on Mar 2nd 2020 at 11:45:54 AM

Kaze ni Nare!

I anxiously await for Oscar and Salem to interact.

Thankfully, I don't think the series would go that route, but there's definitely ground for emotional turmoil and conflict. We don't really know how things have gone with previous incarnations, but Oscar does have the rather unique position of not just potentially accessing Oz's memories....but also having everything that Jinn showed them.

Notably, Jinn stated that Salem left out her role in the end of the world and didn't tell Oz a lot of things during their marriage. Likewise, the God of Light lays the blame for everything squarely on his brother's shoulders. "My brother has done a terrible thing", as though he didn't have any involvement.

So Oscar comes into things with a perspective that isn't simply based on Oz's lifetimes of memory, but also the fuller picture of what Salem went through and did as well as what the Brothers did.

Also, will Salem be disappointed that her Great Enemy/Ex-husband is now a smol, adorable child? Does that increase or decrease the satisfaction of ruining his life?

Edited by harostar on Mar 2nd 2020 at 7:01:45 AM

If Ironwood is ahab, I wont put it to decide to just ram atlas right into the fucking whale in atempt to kill it.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

"Likewise, the God of Light lays the blame for everything squarely on his brother's shoulders. "My brother has done a terrible thing", as though he didn't have any involvement."

TBH, he really didn't. Darkness is the one who killed all of them, and didn't really give much time for Light to talk him out of it

Things are really about to get Fun around here

The God of Light is at the very least guilty of agreeing to let his brother do it. We've already seen in the same episode that he could reverse whatever his brother did, and was more powerful overall. He watches his brother gather power and rage at humanity, then simply averts his eyes from what is about to happen. He allows it to be done, and then departs from the world alongside his brother. It seems like a mutual agreement that their initial experiment has failed, even if he later on relents and offers Ozma the task of redeeming humanity.

I would both laugh and be pleased if, when Salem and Oscar do inevitably meet, Salem sees Oscar as a child first and another victim of the Gods bullshit rather than just consider him Ozpin like everyone else. It would make for a nice change of pace where, instead of everyone seeing him for Ozpin and not caring for the child he's inhabiting, Salem focuses more on Oscar and just considers Ozpin doing this another life he's stolen. I mean, the lyric in Sacrifice already seems to suggest Salem finds it pitiful how many lives Ozpin has taken thanks to his curse.

Besides, seeing her ex-husband who she blames for the deaths of her kids having taken on another child as his next host is likely gonna be a weird experience for her.

Vegeta: I'm back bitches!