Mary Sue Must Die: a call to arms

What is it?

"What is a Mary Sue?" has become so clouded that the answer might as well be "42".

How's that - I found the question before the Earth got destroyed...

Everyone, please, just stop.

Particularly, I would like to address the people who want to contest the validity of the initial statement. I'll put it bluntly: You will continue to use this term whether or not anyone else makes a persuasive argument as to why it is not a valuable criticism because you have given it your own definition and it is easier for you to summarise things that way. And you know what? That's fine. Just please, don't use your personal use of the term to justify the cluttering-up of this forum with more "Is My Character A Mary Sue?!" threads. Those threads are pointless for exactly the reasons that you see illustrated here.

Stop beating this horse and let it die already.

This also goes for the other side of this argument. Continuing to engage in this debate only helps propagate further discord, and as much as watching Internet DRAMA™ unfold warms the cockles of my black and poisonous heart—and believe me, it's fun—I'd rather we saw some actual variation as to what the conflict is focusing upon.

You call this "Internet DRAMA™"? I do agree this debate has been going in circles, and I'd also love to see some fresh thoughts thrown into the mix. But from what I can tell, it's been very civil, and although I can tell some people feel very strongly about the topic, there's no sign of any genuine anger, personal resentment, or true discord beyond what is expected when civilized people disagree on a matter.

At least speaking personally, that's primarily because this is occurring on the internet.

By the way, I want to write a blog post based on the idea of not using the phrase "Mary Sue", so I can present it to other writers. Is this okay?

If you're asking me, go right ahead. I'd do one myself if I had (or wanted) a blog.

True, but the law of entropy still applies here. Plus, this argument is exceedingly circular and repetitive, and a lack of progress in this arena can go nowhere good if left unchecked.

If you aren't taking other people's statements and attributing them as your own, then you can really do what you want... unless you mean quoting nrjxll specifically, in which case you're probably doing the right thing in asking. Redundant...

edited 26th Sep '12 6:11:34 PM by JHM

What I meant is that I would probably not be coming across as very civilized if this was occurring in real life. The nature of the internet (in multiple senses) has imposed some degree of moderation.

I was actually addressing Killer Clowns there, but yes, that's true.

I've already been drafting a blog post. It's about halfway done.

And it might be helpful to facilitate a discussion on this in writing club, especially because I know there's at least one person who regularly uses litmus tests.

I would totally give nrjxll a hug for articulating my suspicions about this.

edited 26th Sep '12 9:25:34 PM by SnowyFoxes

By the way, I'm almost done with the blog post. It's going up Monday if there aren't objections.

Thoughts on what I have so far? Note

edited 30th Sep '12 7:00:29 AM by chihuahua0

After reading various stuff on the subject matter from many sources, I do feel that Mary Sue has become both a meaningless term and a cheap argument. People just label something a Mary Sue and don't bother explaining why, giving no examples and just thinking the term speaks for itself. And that is really, really, not the case.

I'll just quote myself from Writer's Block.