Series: Leverage

I'm jealous because I would love to experience the show for the first time again

Ah.

I share that same jealousy then. Getting to listen to DVD commentary for the first time fortunately has been a new experience, but still.

The whole "scamming the criminals to help the helpless" reminds me of Burn Notice a little bit. Unlike when I was watching that show, in this one I'm just going to not think about any Myth Arc and just watch the episodes for sheer audacity.

In case you haven't watched Burn Notice, let's just say that the Myth Arc of that show dragged on for a LONG time.

Helping the helpless is fun.

Both shows are influenced by things like Mission: Impossible, the A-Team, and various other things from the 80s past & shared genre. I actually really enjoy seeing the similarities & differences between each show.

Helping the helpless is the old trick that always works. It is a noble heroic quest, it's easy to understand and it provides ample opportunity for all kind of things.

I know that helping the helpless is an old genre, but did shows like M:I and A-Team involve conning the conmen as well? I never got to watch either of those.

Watching ep 7 of season 2.

Boy, is it good to see a female fighter who actually have some body mass! Are you watching this, Fionna Glennen?

Techinically speaking Leverage would be a merge of MI and The A-Team. Mission Impossible involved the complicated mind gambits, forgery, fakery, high tech, pscychological manipulation and overall Gambit Pile Up Leverage is known for, but it was about spies hunting spies and other manner of international criminals.

The A-Team was a show with less Gambit Pile Up and more action. Leverage takes from the A-Team the plot structure (We Help the Helpless, facing all sort of bizarre criminals along the way) and the bickering team dynamic, as well as the lighter Rule of Fun tone (Mission Impossible was darker than Leverage, I believe).

I still lament that there were never crossover eps. There was so much potential for fun.

Leverage/Psych or Leverage/White Collar...

Better yet, Leverage/Person of Interest.

Leverage/Burn Notice

I like Leverage/White Collar most of all since Peter would never excuse the crew for what they do. Plus both sides face plenty of white collar criminals.

Also, the above about Mission: Impossible & The A-Team are correct about the setup. As to why I referenced them, the creators themselves admitted that those two were some of their influences. Ironically, A-Team itself was influenced by Mission: Impossible as well, though it more shows in the first season than others. Plus they leaned into more doing their own thing as well, which I'm glad. Emulate, not imitate.

Also, the other reason for the whole help the helpless factor is because they felt that was something that so many modern heist things were missing. They felt they understood the trick factor, but was missing the "Robin Hood factor". I personally agree. It's one reason I love Leverage way more than, say, Hustle. Of course, many other reasons I consider Hustle the inferior show, but that's another story.

Actually, a Hustle/Leverage crossover would be cool as well. Though the Hustle crew would be way out of their league compared to Leverage.

edited 7th Mar '14 12:01:10 PM by Prime_of_Perfection

Yeah that was my problem with Hustle, too...I watched the pilot, but found the characters utterly unlikable. Not that the story of a true criminal can't be enjoyable too.

I find one of the problems with Hustle is that they pretend to be like the Leverage crew without the majority of the Pet the Dog moments & tons of double standards. For instance, despite making a big deal of "You can't con an honest man" (which is bullshit), they routinely play short cons on random people for their own selfish needs. They say it's not about the money, but they have no higher objectives beyond that really. They don't do anything to actually stop their marks from going right back to harming people and they rarely do anything with the money aside from spend it on themselves. Yet we're supposed to see them as lovable rogues.

Another good example, they routinely scam Eddie all the time, despite their whole thing about "looking out for the little guy." Them looking out for the little guy involves them conning corrupt people (but not TOO corrupt. Plenty of the marks the Leverage crew goes after the Hustle crew would pass on out of self-preservation.) then keeping the money for themselves. One season opener had them joking about it in a way that legit pissed me off. They were comparing themselves to Robin Hood though added that they steal from the rich and then spend the money on nice clothes. Then they laughed.

The writing surrounding their cons is not all that compelling. It's really by the numbers most of the time. Some episodes do break the formula & those are the ones I appreciate, but they're rare. The show has some good qualities and elements to take away from it, but it's weaknesses always pull me down. They really aren't all that imaginative with most of the cons and their characters aren't that alluring. I could go on and on, plus I still can say some of the pros I found in the show & their characters at time such as them being graceful losers the very rare times they do lose, but regardless, I consider it average, at best.

For all of it's pros and cons though, the fact that they act like they're better people & more charismatic than they actually are as con artists tick me off. And I don't mean with regards to breaking the law factor. Any justice system is just a system, for better or worst. I mean even within the genre itself, they aren't as righteous as the show likes to pretend they are.

Oh and I do agree something regarding just straightforward criminals can work. I can think of examples even. However, they do have to be compelling criminals. I personally don't find the Hustle crew to be all that compelling. Make it someone the audience wants to watch. Of course, it worked for plenty of others in things, but regardless, I honestly wouldn't have watched every episode if not for fact I was researching pieces in the heist/con genre for the sake of own writing.

edited 8th Mar '14 1:33:25 AM by Prime_of_Perfection

Just finished ep 9 of season 2.

I gotta say, the twists, on both the client and the attorney was pretty clever. I think this is one of the better episodes, in my opinion.

Believe me, from that point onward the show goes better and better...to me, it became a little bit stale in the fourth season, but all in all it was going strong until the end.

Finished season 2.

Yeah, it does get better, all right. I especially loved the climax of the Bottle Job and the Future Job.

I love the logic given for Sterling joining Interpol I learned from DVD commentary. More they were planning the final heist of season, overall have concepts all over they consider using, and they wanted a law enforcement antagonist for it. The first mention was Sterling for it, seemed natural choice, but they ran into issue that Sterling's area is art crime and insurance fraud & this was outside of his field given how big it was. Then after all kinds of thinking and such, just came to solution "Why don't we just make Sterling Interpol?"

Anyway, I really hope you enjoy Season 3, especially for the latter half. My personal favorite season is 4 since I feel they really had a nice balance of standalone episode & the advancing arc. That and there is one other important element about 4 I really enjoy which I won't go into.

At any rate, Season 3's central theme is Patience.

edited 9th Mar '14 5:30:44 PM by Prime_of_Perfection

Watched season 3, ep 5.

It was lovely.

• Parker getting jealous and manhandling the guards.
• Eliot actually being mistaken as a workaholic desk jockey. Also, coffee. Twice.
• Nathan taking his bluffs to a whole new level.

Also, I like how the recklessness of Nathan is constantly brought up by Sophie.

The sheer amount of tech-magic used in this episode and others, at times this series feel like a lot less serious version of Person Of Interest.

You know which one episode is the really bad one? The White Rabbit Job. All others are OK, but this one annoyed me.

Watched season 3 ep 8.

Gotta say, I really like this season: there are so much character development.

Also, Parker is a rare live action character who manages to be both cute and hot. From ones I watched, anyway.

Oh, and Hardison is one of the most muscular nerds I've seen.

edited 16th Mar '14 10:41:58 PM by dRoy

Like I said, I consider the third the best.

And I adore Parker...she even got a "Honoring the Heroine" article from me. One of the first I ever wrote.

Mind sharing a link to it?

And I'm still looking forward to you reaching Season 4, d Roy. The Central Theme for season 4 is Consequences. For the other two seasons, Season 1 was Trust & Season 2 was Family.

edited 17th Mar '14 1:48:13 AM by Prime_of_Perfection

http://swanpride.wordpress.com/2014/01/11/honoring-the-heroine-parker/

Parker is indeed a great character.

What's the theme of season 3, if it isn't too much of a spoiler? Growth?

Watched season 3 ep 10. The end where Eliot says goodbye to the miner boy made me slightly tear up. To me, it seems as if during that short time he started to look at Eliot as a kind of a mentor/older brother figure. It reminded me of saying goodbye to my best friend boarding his train to the army. ;_;

edited 17th Mar '14 6:34:26 AM by dRoy

Patience, as mentioned above. Can see growth technically being something that goes on all throughout the series with the character arcs & points they wish to hit on with each season.

Oh yeah, there is something I am really interested in seeing your reaction to in the Big Bang Job, this season's 2 part finale. It's character related things regarding Eliot without giving too much away, though all the characters in the 2 part finale get

edited 17th Mar '14 7:47:56 AM by Prime_of_Perfection