Jim Sterling (The Jimquisition)

The Rise of YouTube Fodder

Huh, an episode about Industry PR bullcrap on why they can't have diversity

Revivify the Cold Jimquisition Thread time.

Here's the latest. It says exactly what it says on the tin.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/9695-Quit-Using-The-Term-Social-Justice-Warriors

I kinda agree on this one. The term is overused to begin with, and is usually deployed to shut down debate that the user doesn't agree with.

That is one video I wish to see linked out there. Too bad Jim's persona can easily turns people off.

Sent you brought him back I think I want to discuss his opinion on sex Dragon age origins.

Now personally I don't like the amount of 'adult content' in the Dragon age series, I felt it was rather unnecessary and a little creepy myself. But I don't think he's taking a very fair attitude to bioware away here.

So people want to role-play the characters getting it on? I don't think that's a sign of someone seeing sex some sort of special bonus reward they should get for being good in a game >_>

^Thats how its presented though.

Not really, at last not aways. Indigo Prophecy was mentioned, but the only sex scene that was actually shown on screen, as far I can remember, was not a reward. It was direct part of the story and unavoidable.

Now, Bioware games do, to some extend, treats sex as a reward of a "mini game". You make the right choices, give the right gifts, and you get romance in the end. And, indeed, after that subplot is finished, it often feels it never happened. But I would counter argue that this is not and issue with sex or romance. The same exact thing happens to other relationships with your teammates.

Also, I feel it is a bit unfair to those games to say it truly all there is to the sex and relationship there. I am honestly a big fan of these kind of subplot. Dragon Age 1 didn't have a sex scene as far I can remember, but I did enjoy the romance. Same with the old Baldurs Gate. IT is not necessarily about sex, but about the characters. Furthermore, I feel it is also unfair to say it completely ends once the sex happens. Sure, the romance is rarely brought again once the plot ends^note same as all relationships subplots, but it does happen. I remember quite well Mass Effect remembering I was a couple with Lianna through the second and third games. Not as much as I would like, granted, but still happened.

I see his point and he is right the industry as a whole, as well as the developers he mentioned, still need to improve in how they portray relationships in their games. But I don't think "sex in video games is always immature and pandering" is a good mind set. I also don't think it is fair to pan on Dragon Age inquisition before it comes out based purely in what could be a poor word choosing by a single person.

Umm, Dragon Age 1 had most notable example of humping while wearing underwear scene in entire Bioware library

True but he has chosen the wrong target then, regardless I think it's a long bow to draw between sex in a videogame and spawning the Entitledto Have You attitude in real life.

While admittedly you only have sex if you choose the right dialogue options and make the right choices in the game the series doesn't treated as a 'reward' in the strictest sense.

edited 7th Sep '14 2:56:07 AM by joeyjojo

Really? My mistaken then, I honestly don't remember it (it have been years, after all). That is as much as I care about sex scenes, despite being a fan of romantic subplots. So I really just disagree with the notion sex invalidates them.

This. The comparison to the entitled "Nice Guy" really rubbed me off. He focused on sex and romance but everything he said could be applied to other standard features in games. The "entitlement" is a big almost omnipresent one. In most games, if you do a good action you are rewarded with a good outcome, even if there is no logical link between the two. It feels odd when it doesn't happen^note which, of course, good games use to great success. Should we criticize Mass Effect for every Paragon action always working? Even when talking strictly about relationships, this is true for non romantic ones as well. If you are nice to someone in a game, you usually expect them to be nice to you in return and/or even give you bonus. And we are expected to instantly dislike the character who doesn't follow that, even if they have good reasons of their own.

As said, Jim is miss targeting here. He points real issues, but it is not solely about how sex and relationship are portrayed in games. I don't think Bioware (and others) should get flak for including those things in their games, much the opposite. Yes, maybe their use of sex is not ideal, but that doesn't mean they should stop altogether. It is fair to say they need to improve, but I disagree entirely with the notion that as soon as sex is included, it must be pandering and, therefore, it shouldn't be there.

About Indigo Prophecy: there were two other optional romance scenes. One was offscreen, and another came up later after playing guitar to an ex.

I remembered those ones but, unless I am misremembering again, even that second is not shown with details.

^^^Amen, and bioware despite being far from egalitarian to it's credit doesn't forced you into the role of the straight male hero for the purely optional romance. Although admittedly the same criticism could and should be apply regardless.

Idk, any playable romance in a game is going to boil down to doing a few basic actions until you fill out trust gauge.

If he's got a problem with and thinks it's tacky and deeming I can see he is coming from. But I still think he's being rather unfair them to bioware and it's kin.

Yeah, they came a long way since Baldurs Gate. Giving only freaking Anomen as a male romance option was a damn sin. I mean, if they were going to give a single option for the ladies, they should at last chose a character that doesn't suck.

^^It doesn't really HAVE to be that way though. I mean, why would it have to be that way?

It doesn't have to be that way, true, but it does have to be a "reward". In a loose definition, almost everything in a game is a reward, when they are not punishment. You play the game, you get an outcome. If the outcome is something you desire, it is a "reward". Even if it is a perfectly tasteful, meaningful relationship that serves t further the characters forward, it will still be a reward for the players who "played it right".

I agree that Dragon Age approach of a Dating Sim-like "trust bar" that fills with basic interaction and gifts is quite silly and I hope less games employ this. But that wasn't the case in Mass Effect and Indigo Prophecy, where the romance happens through interaction that the devs deemed to be as natural as they could make. You can argue that they failed in their intent, but this is an arguent for them to try harder next time, not for the method to be abandoned in its entirety.

edited 8th Sep '14 12:10:56 AM by Heatth

Well playing Video games by their very nature are nothing more then doing a predefined set of action to achieving conditions certain.

Indigo Prophecy and Mass Effect try to make it seem more naturalistic then the average dating sim with scripted dialogue options and in game interactions, but it's still ultimately filling out a approval rating.

Yes, that was exactly my point.

That said, presentation matters. I do think having an actual relationship bar displayed is considerably worse than having the same bar hidden. Also, my main problem with Dragon Age style is the gifting, really. It kinda feels like buying affection, which is a shitty mentality. I could get if each gift had a nice scene attached to them, to make it feel as if they matter. But giving a flower and seeing a number pop up is kinda disgusting.

Even then I like Dragon Age romantic subplot (or, rather, the party relationship subplots). Just because I think its implementation was poorly done it doesn't mean I advocate for it to be removed. I think that would make for a poorer game, not a better one.

edited 8th Sep '14 12:16:19 AM by Heatth

That's probably what Jim was complaining about. Although I think he is painting the series of a pretty wide brush especially as the Dragon age Inquisition hasn't even been released yet and he's already wrote off their claims to be more tasteful.

Anyone here play Alpha Protocol? What did you think to their Sex scenes?

That is the thing. He was complaining about a game that haven't been released yet based solely on a couple of words in a interview. Said interview could be just a result of bad wording or the speaker not actually having an clear idea of what he was talking about.

Worse, he treated sex as it was the problem, but almost all the problems he pointed also happen in non sexual relationships on those games. Furthermore, the solution of Video-Games not being able to portray sexuality adequately is never forbid sex from being handled, much the opposite. The industry will only archive a place where they can tackle the issue adequately if they keep tackling the issue. They might fumble a lot along the way but that is the way it is.

I am all for calling out the devs for exploitative sexual content, but I think "characters engage in romantic relationship and eventually have sex" is hardly an outrageous concept in itself. Complain about the presentation, but not the concept.

Never played Alpha Protocol myself, sorry. Sounds interesting, though. Is it actually good, sex scenes aside?

edited 8th Sep '14 12:34:23 AM by Heatth

Oh... It's has the makings of a all-time classic that needed a good six months of polish. Where in works like in it's story and character options it is brilliant.... But it is let down by it's shoddy controls and horribly broken unbalance gameplay.

It's worth playing, just don't come in with the expectations of the epic bioware style RPG it clearly wants to be.

Yes. It is awesome. I love how literally the only person who never lies to or tries to kill you is the Blood Knight psychopath.

There's an achievement for "getting" all four in a single playthrough. Kind of disgusting. There's also an achievement for having absolutely no sex at all during a run. Alpha Protocol is the kind of game where every behavior is rewarded, with the rewards just making the game play differently according to how you've played so far.

^^Its still better than ME games though

^They aren't achievements really, they are stat bonuses you get from behaving in particular way. There is bonus pretty much everything you could potentially behave like, including acting really random

They come across less as rewards and more as "This is what you did!" pop ups since it doesn't really matter whether you get them or not and you ARE going to get them anyway no matter what you do

edited 8th Sep '14 6:50:49 AM by SpookyMask

I don't know how many of you folks care, but Jim Sterling has left the Escapist to go solo.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/138617-Goodbye-to-Jim-Sterling

http://www.patreon.com/jimquisition is his Patreon page.

Huh. That's unexpected. I wonder what his reasons are. You'd think he'd take a steady paycheck over the generosity of the big internet blob.

Not to mention that he was more or less a third of the Escapist. You'd think they'd made him some good offers to make him stay.