Unclear name, unexpectedly few wicks: Day Of The Jackboot

Just want to say that I consider myself relatively world-weary, and I have never heard the word "Jackboot" used to describe fascists. The people who have heard it before, where do you live? Maybe it's a regional thing?

edited 24th Feb '12 1:34:32 PM by abk0100

No, it's just a stupid, needless pun based on the title of a work.

I usually hear it used more as an adjective, as in "jackbooted fascist". I never hear it as just "jackboot".

edited 24th Feb '12 1:42:42 PM by SeanMurrayI

OK, a couple of things. First, and this is the second time I have written this, the association between "jackboot" and fascism/totalitarianism has nothing whatsoever to do with The Day Of The Jackal. It is an old word for a knee-high Army boot, and has been used to connote authoritarianism since 1768. The post above mine saying that it is a pun on The Day Of The Jackal is factually incorrect, and we need to stop saying that.

Secondly—well, I don't want to be mean about this, but some of you folks need to read books. Neither "jackboot" nor "brownshirt" is an obscure usage. Here is the google search for "jackboot". You will observe that on the very first page of the Google search, there are four uses of "jackboot" in the sense of "authoritarian", and two more listings under the "news" section.

The Google for "brownshirt" lists, besides the Wikipedia entry on Hitler's stormtroopers, three listings and a video hit for "brownshirt" in the figurative sense.

I also see above the assertion that doing nothing is not an option. I disagree. The term is clearly defined and is NOT an obsessively obscure name. God knows this website has a host of obscure trope titles, but this is not one.

Oh, puh-leez. If the current title owes more to emphasizing the long-associated history of the term "jackboot" with "fascism", then there's no reason why the term has to be used in a phrase clearly based off of the name of a work.

Or are you arguing that Day of the Jackboot in and of itself is a pre-existing phrase?

Regardless, it's a bad name. Many people aren't familiar with the terms "jackboot" and "brownshirt" no matter how prevalent the terms are (Although I'll admit to being familiar with both), and the trope is also intended to cover communist dictatorships coming to power with which neither "jackboot" nor "brownshirt" have any preexisting connotations. Strike one and strike two.

edited 24th Feb '12 2:22:05 PM by SeanMurrayI

deleted post

edited 24th Feb '12 2:08:00 PM by Vidor

I know. That's what I said. But, again, neither "jackboot" nor "brownshirt" have any preexisting connotations with communist dictatorships.

Not everyone has the luxury of having spare time or is interested enough to read books, especially ones dealing with history or politics, and especially if they live outside countries that have had a first- or second-hand experience with Nazi and/or Soviet authoritarian rule or military conflict with it (i.e. Europe, the US, Canada, or in other words the NATO members).

Then explain how the trope only has 70 wicks and (right now) 25 inbounds total. Clearly there is something with this article and/or trope name, for one would expect that such a plot would be much more commonly used/referenced. And before you say it, no, I distictly remember seeing this trope name around for at least two years by now, so there goes the "it's a newly made trope, give it time" excuse.

edited 24th Feb '12 2:28:31 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I don't think there needs to be anything more to the title other than Totalitarian Takeover, though I can see a little bit of abuse that could spring from the name; that is, it might be assumed that it means invasion when the takeover is mostly internal, and may or may not be hostile.

Totalitarian Demagogue Takeover would be closer to what's meant, but it's a lot of big words. A Totalitarian For The People is nice and cynical but doesn't suggest this takeover happens or happened.

Honestly, I don't read anything in the current description that rules out "invasion" as a cause for such a takeover.

Vidor: "Secondly—well, I don't want to be mean about this, but some of you folks need to read books."

You know, despite my reservations, I was actually voting against the rename.

Thanks to that single sentence, you've convinced me to change my vote. I now definitely want the trope renamed. Well done.

edited 24th Feb '12 2:46:57 PM by abk0100

Well no, it's not excluded; I'm just trying to anticipate Trope Decay, also is there another trope for where an enemy comes over and conquers your hometown already? It seems like there would be.

But if the trope is specifically to play on the reader's fear of such a scenario occurring, then yes invasion is also included. But what stops someone from using it to name any ol' invasion rather than one that preys on the fear of the audience?

edited 24th Feb '12 3:26:14 PM by RickGriffin

"Thanks to that single sentence, you've convinced me to change my vote. I now definitely want the trope renamed. Well done."

Up to you, of course, although one would hope everyone would vote for what they actually think the right thing to do with the trope is. As it happens it looks like the clear intention of the majority of people who have voted in this thread is to rename the trope in any case. What I was responding to was the assertion that words like "jackboot" and "brownshirt" are too obscure to be used as trope names. They are not, and I find it quite peculiar that these commonly used terms are singled out as too obscure to understand when we have dozens and dozens of far more obscurely named tropes on this forum.

As for the contention that Day of the Jackboot must be a pun off of Day Of The Jackal, I think that "day of the" is a pretty common usage. We have pages here for Day Of The Tentacle, The Day Of The Triffids, and Day Of The Dead.

Anyway, if the trope is to be renamed because it isn't used enough, that's fine. Certainly a rename is better than a split.

edited 24th Feb '12 4:27:03 PM by Vidor

Day Of The Tentacle is based on The Day Of The Jackal and the proposal to read is offensive. I like where this thread goes.

> I don't think there needs to be anything more to the title other than Totalitarian Takeover,

Yeah, but we'll have socialists arguing that it doesn't apply in an eyeblink.

...And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense - R.W.Wood

Calling crowner. No consensus to do anything.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Technically, the only option in the green is very much ahead of the other in-the-red options.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

But it's not a consensus. 2/1 is the rule if you don't want all the anti-rename people to come and bitch.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

But now this is a complete dead end. On the one hand, the crowner says no consencus to act. On the other, the option that said the page is fine and no fix is needed, is way in the red. So there's an issue...and the crowner has given us no solution on it.

What now?

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

Add it to Pages Needing Wicks is the only thing I can think of.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

I thought the 2:1 rule only applied when there's multiple options in the green.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

No. 2:1 or no rename.

"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer

Page already has over 14 wicks. It wouldn't belong there at all.

edited 22nd Mar '12 1:44:33 PM by SeanMurrayI

This is why we do dedicated rename crowners, not multiple choice ones. They make a mess of things.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Are you suggesting that we make a new crowner?

edited 22nd Mar '12 2:55:54 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

If the rename was voted down here, we shouldn't try to force it through with new crowners.

That's why I make Page Action crowners only if there are many different options to choose from, especially if they aren't mutually exclusive.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Well, the previous crowner says strongly that there is consensus that something needs to be done. What we need to do is figure out what that something is.

The rename wasn't voted down so much as it wasn't voted up enough. It won, but not by a large enough margin.

edited 22nd Mar '12 3:12:55 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick