Marvel Cinematic Universe

To be clear, I absolutely don't fall into that mindset. I can sniff out poor writing coming from writers themselves when I see it. Hack writers don't need time travelling to still be hackneyed or forced.

Mandatory Edit: Aaaaaaaand I pagetopped. Well okay, to provide context, I responded to someone, highlighting that so often do writers fumble time-travelling as a concept for stories, the concept itself has that stigma as an inherently poor idea in the minds of viewers.

Edited by Ego-Man25 on Apr 25th 2024 at 8:59:09 AM

I do hope that Deadpool and Wolverine does do well in theaters. The MCU really needs to get back on its feet after a string of disasters (with a few exceptions like Spider-Man: No Way Home and Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3.

Edited by Rabbitearsblog on Apr 25th 2024 at 12:56:36 PM

I actually can't recall too many live-action things that have multiple time-travel rules as a plot point. Like maybe there are multiple time travel devices involved but they all still follow the same general rules, meanwhile the MCU (much like the Marvel Universe proper) actually has different rules depending on the methods used.

And, like, that's cool, y'know? One of the things I love about the Marvel universe is how much of a hodgepodge kitchen sink it can be, just throwing a bunch of things together that shouldn't necessarily work in the same shared setting but they ultimately just have to. And that messiness results in stuff like the Marvel universe having different ways to time travel thanks to decades of writers just doing their own time travel stories how they wanted to and the canon being forced to mold around them.

Now if anything's the actual real bummer IMO in terms of "concepts being considered Ruined FOREVER by general audiences" it's the way people have started souring on multiverse stuff. Especially with lazy writers essentially training people to only see the multiverse as a way to negate consequences or suddenly modify characters without actually retconning. Just.....ugh.

Wasn't that also some people's issues with the use of the Multiverse?

I think my issue with Multi-verse stuff just comes down to the fact that I don't find alternate universes or what ifs nearly as interesting as a lot of comic readers do.

Like, we already have tropes like Evil Counterpart and Shadow Archetype that are meant to highlight how a character would wind up if things had gone differently, they just do so using another character with their own identity. I don't need to see an evil alternate universe version of a character. XD

Edited by GNinja on Apr 25th 2024 at 10:11:29 AM

Speaking only for myself, time travel and multiverses can work just fine in many settings. But I actually think that they're poisonous in a shared universe like the MCU, where the attraction is that it's one shared, consistent universe.

With the MCU I'd argue it is a bit more harmed than helped by multiverse. Vaguely the problem can be summarized as the MCU kind of already being a multiverse of sorts.

But to be more specific:

• The MCU is already extremely versatile and covers genres ranging from fantasy to political thriller to space opera.

• Likewise, the MCU was always designed to be extremely crossover-friendly.

• Part of the appeal of adaptions of comic books is seeing people invent their own versions of characters or arcs. For example, I'd be much more interested in seeing the MCU's take on Doc Ock or Green Goblin than seeing them imported from the Sony pictures.
  • Likewise I'm not personally all that interested in seeing team-ups between different versions of Peter Parker, for example.

• Multiversal travel, as a vehicle for crossovers, often doesn't have the same immersive qualities as a shared universe. Indeed, it often highlights the lack of shared continuity between the works.

• I would argue multiversal travel makes the quality that "anything can happen" too literal. In essence, it's the difference between Magic The Gathering and Calvinball.

Yeah, but at least with Calvinball, you're able to outplay the rulemaster.

Though I will say THIS: the Deadpool film fans and MCU fans have a MASSIVE overlap. Chances are rather high that if you've been following along most of the MCU movies, you've likely also enjoyed your kicks of Deadpool 1 and 2 thus far... and, of course, vice-versa, going from someone meandering back and forth with X-Men films, before being jolted to life with Deadpool, and Deadpool 2 immediately thereafter... probably jumping into some MCU films before long.

Look, I'm gonna say this: fun as it might be to trashtalk the Multiverse shit (and believe me there is no shortage of riffing material I mine from it), the uncomfortable elephant in the room is that there is a chance to actually make it work here. It won't be easy, but if there's ANY chances they have at selling this as an idea that can work, Deadpool & Wolverine is that chance.

Kang they do it though? I mean, the one main thing that the Multiverse Saga was supposed to lead up to kinda blew up in Marvel's face. In more ways than one.

What was it supposed to lead up to? Kang before Jonathan Majors was fired?

Even besides Majors, I still think it was a mistake to go the replaceable Kang route rather than a singular Kang who goes through defeats and triumphs during his tenure as the villain.

Like, all those arguments over if Quantumania Kang could have been a great villain is null when he's replaceable and Immortus is supposedly the big leader for some reason.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Apr 26th 2024 at 6:31:54 PM

So, in the spirit of cautious optimism, maybe we're about to witness a good ol' pivot going down. I'm not here to entertain someone giving defense towards the idea that "Quantumania Kang was supposed to go down in Quantuma-" NO. Fact is, we got a new movie, new life potentially being breathed into this thing, so, y'know, let's potentially fucking go, see the cards that get played, and if the Time Variance Authority mooks are still being horribly butchered, then hey, perhaps they've got more malicious intentions still up their sleeves.

Kang will likely just be another Ultron hell Cassandra Nova seems like a more threatning multiverse threat in the trailers alone. That decision had a butterfly effect on the MCU going forward.

Edited by Mizerous on Apr 26th 2024 at 8:16:09 AM

I'm just disappointed they dumped Kang after botching him.

Fix your damn mess instead of throwing it out.

Of course, the thing with Jonathan Majors being a dick kinda soured things, but note that they were getting ready to dump Kang even before that all came out.

Then again, I've made it clear I don't think Quantumania Kang was weak. Like, they barely beat him, and you could argue it's a diss on Antman that people think Kang is a joke because he lost to him.

But it is how it is. Kang gets thrown under the bus and now non comic book readers will see him as a loser. Good work Marvel.

It’s official they’re dumping the character?

Rob just likes to make wild assumptions sometimes.

But you know I love you Rob.

That said, it actually hasn't been confirmed that Kang is being dropped.

I mean, didn't they say they were moving away from him?

Didn't someone post an article on this very thread about it?

Was it not official? If so, shit, now I'm an asshole again. Thanks Marvel.

Ok, I 100% could have sworn we had official word that they were moving away from Kang. Honestly.

The most they've done AFAIK officially is Kang Dynasty is no longer locked in as the subtitle for Avengers 5. Everything else is speculation.

The most recent rumor I heard is that Kang Dynasty is still happening with him as the villain of that, but he will not be the villain of Secret Wars.

Edited by lbssb on Apr 26th 2024 at 1:27:40 PM

Tbh that's fair. I'd rather have Beyonder

I feel like anytime I hear anything about the Avengers movies, they've been delayed another year. Kang Dynasty was supposed to come out this November originally. Now it's slated for 2026.

Yeah remove the council just use one Kang and Beyonder with like other multiverse baddies instead of a horde of Kangs

If we get Beyonder, I wonder if they will lift anything from his portrayal in Moon Girl, given that would likely be where most audiences know him from.

The big question I have regarding Avengers 5 is if Namor is still involved. Back when Loveness was still attached, he said that he was going to play a big role in the movie.

Guessing whatever Loveness had in mind went away with him.