Marvel Cinematic Universe

Man just helped save the universe.

He deserves to be a little selfish & relax.

Edited by slimcoder on Oct 19th 2019 at 12:40:14 PM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Yeah, even if Peggy has a husband in the future that Steve's from, he'd be going back to a point in time where she's still single.

Though, if Peggy and her hubby had any kids, it would be a little disturbing for Steve to go back and Ret-Gone them from existence.

"It takes an idiot to do cool things, that's why it's cool" - Haruhara Haruko

You can dislike Steve going back to Peggy all you want, but the whole homewrecker thing doesn't have anything to support it.

Yes, Prime Peggy married someone else, but that doesn't mean she was already on a relationship when Steve went back.

They are just assuming that in order to justify the Unintentionally Unsympathetic entry for the Russo interpretation

That would be a more valid entry for the Russo time travel scenario. I don't personally take any issue with it, but I can see why it would bother others.

Edited by MrSeyker on Oct 19th 2019 at 12:51:51 PM

Thing is, he went both in time and undid what action, so more than homewreker he is home retcoing.

Which sound like the next spiderman title

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

Mephisto makes his MCU debut.

This is why the time travel in Endgame is crap. It's painfully obvious they didn't think it through well enough — hell, the writers and directors couldn't even agree on how it worked.

If you're going to use time travel in your work, either leave it as a one-off gag for one episode, or actually think it through from the beginning. If fucking Futurama could put in the effort, the people behind Endgame could do it too.

Disgusted, but not surprised

The whole Time Travel nonsense is one of the major reasons why I prefer IW over Endgame.

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Ya know I think this would be less painful if we’d stop thinking about it.

Cause it’s doing no one any favors & honestly it’s not very fun.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

I never once think about time travel in Endgame again after I finished watching it. And it does me a lot of good.

Bite my shiny metal ass.

I'm still of the opinion that Endgame really drags in the middle. It has a great beginning and a fantastic end, but the middle has too much madcap comic shenanagains and comedy of errors style contrivances for my tastes, considering this is the climax of the saga.

Edited by GNinja on Oct 19th 2019 at 10:11:22 AM

Kaze ni Nare!

I'm of the opposite opinion that it picks up once the Time Heist actually gets going and turns the movie into a celebration of the MCU's highlights. The first act is where the pace really drags, especially since so many of the "getting the gang back together" scenes are almost repeats of each other.

Hell I think the 5 year Time Skip was completely unnecessary.

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Like, I guess I'm more interested in seeing everyone at their lowest point than in seeing Avengers highlights. Which makes sense, given that it's me.

Kaze ni Nare!

No we needed that.

Gotta age Cassie up after all.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

When you restructure the entire universe at the most foundational level just to age up one character.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Oct 19th 2019 at 3:53:50 AM

It was the only way.

Literally, like no other options, do or die, nothing else was possible or feasible, just like...... something that happened once before.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

The movie also had to jump through a lot of hoops and contrivances in order to keep Thanos as the climactic villain.

I think my issue with Captain America's resolution is less about the time travel (oh no, I've gone cross-eyed) and more that he dropped his life in the present to be with one particular girl. It might be a nice What If? thought but he basically abandoned the friends and Family of Choice, of which he had just rescued from the Snap, for a completely different life. And with no actual goodbye, just informing them LONG after he made that decision, and all the themes of learning to move on with your life undone because... time travel.

Endgame's time travel does work. They explain it the movie and what happens lines up.

Its alternate realities.

In the interview where the writers say Cap was always on this timeline, they start the bloody thing explaining time travel on the alternate realities model.

The movie and the directors and the writers all line up on the time travel mechanics right until the Cap twist, where the writers deliberately start ignoring the rules to make Cap Peggy's secret husband.

I think that really bothered me too actually. The Thanos we get at the end of Endgame is not the same Thanos we'd just spent an entire movie fleshing out and getting to know in Infinity War. Just the same way the Nebula that gets killed isn't our Nebula and the Gamora we have at the end isn't the one from Guardians.

And the way they go about it is really spurious as well. Thanos basically gets insanely lucky and just gets handed the information that the gang are up to something. It's not even a mistake on the hero's part that does it either. Something completely out of left field happens.

Kaze ni Nare!

No, it is neat, clean, and simple. The film lays out its rules very clearly, unlike a variety of time travel works that demand the audience try to guess at them.

The rules are only complicated if you rack your brain trying to overcomplicate them, because you're concerned with things like scientific viability or consistency with other works in the franchise written by other people who used time travel in different ways to advance different plots. But here's the thing about time travel that people in many fandoms don't really get.

Time travel is not scientifically viable. If it were, it'd be a real thing that exists. Time travel is magical pseudo-science used to advance a plot. It makes as much sense as FTL hyperdrives, parallel dimension teleporters, or freeze rays that don't kill people but encase them in solid ice.

The rules of time travel are whatever the story says that the rules are, and then there are no other rules unless the story says otherwise. There are no paradoxes unless the story says there are paradoxes. There are no timeline splits unless the story says there are timeline splits. There are no predestined events unless the story says there are predestined events. The story gives you the rules, and those are just the rules, the end.

If a story says that traveling through time makes a bear appear on your head, then it does. And I'm sure fans would write up elaborate essays on how and why the bear appears on your head. Where does it come from? Is the bear made of pure concentrated time? Is it some sort of time guard, making sure you don't change history too much? Is it the cuddliest little lumpkin that ever lived, oh my god time bears for everyone? But at the end of the day, the bear is just there because that's the rule, no other explanation for it.

But people always struggle with time travel, because a lot of people have their own preconceived "favorite versions" of time travel, and have a subsequent tendency to tune out as soon as the story starts explaining the rules. Or wrestle with the rules to try and fit them back into those preconceived notions. If time travel "doesn't make sense", it's because you're overcomplicating and reinterpreting it rather than just accepting the rules the writer handed you at face value.

End of the day, it's just fictional metaphysics. It doesn't mean anything; it's not even relevant to the central themes or characters. It's literally just a prop used to make the story go to where the story needs to be and nothing more. The story will usually tell you whatever you need to know to understand time travel as depicted in the story, and if you just stop worrying about "time travel models" and take it, everything that transpires will be pretty clear and easy to understand.

Except Captain America, the T-1000 of Endgame.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 19th 2019 at 9:52:15 AM

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

I'm someone who gets easily annoyed with wonky time travel in stories, but aside from the situation with Steve, the time travel in Endgame sticks to an internal logic that I personally find relatively easy to follow. Also, I think that is trying to figure out all of the possible implications and applications of the time travel as seen in the movie is making things more complicated than they need to be.

Don't catch you slippin' now.

Honestly, at the end of the day, I think it mostly comes down to the question whether you LIKE Time Travel as a plot device or not.

Me, I am pretty sick of it, its been so done to death over the past few years, especially in the superhero genre. There are very few recent works where it didn't seem forced or just like a lazy, cheap plot device.

Hell, even Legends of Tomorrow (and I LOVE that show) would be better off if it scrapped the concept and switched to, lets say, parallel Earth hopping instead.

Edited by Forenperser on Oct 19th 2019 at 7:53:58 PM

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I dislike time travel for the most part, but I dig its use in Endgame to make a sort of homage to the ten years of MCU.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."

For all my complaining about time travel, I actually like quite a few works that use time travel. Quantum Leap, Futurama, Beast Wars, H.G. Wells The Time Machine, Girl Genius, Homestuck...

But as I've already stated, those works all introduced the time travel fairly early on. That makes it less of a cheap plot device.

I liked Eight Bit Theater's use of time travel too — mainly because it set up a Brick Joke years in the making namely the part where Thief loses his class upgrade because his past self steals it from him.

I don't like Endgame's uses of time travel, even though I did like the scenes with Tony and Thor and their meetings with their parents (I'm kind of a sucker for scenes of people finding closure with parental figures).

Edited by M84 on Oct 20th 2019 at 2:02:18 AM

Disgusted, but not surprised

It isn't, actually. I didn't have to "rack my brain" to overcomplicate it, all I had to do was think about it.

The problem, however, is that the movie leaves the rules of time travel vague and inconsistent. Like, we know taking an Infinity Stone will result in a branched timeline and returning it will cut the branch...but what happens to everything that was changed? If Gamora's branched timeline was clipped, why is she still here? What the hell happened with Loki? Is there or isn't there a timeline where Thanos and his army disappeared?

If you are left with a ton of questions about timelines, then your time travel was neither neat nor simple.

Hey, you know what movie had neat and simple time travel? Back to the Future. Not Endgame.