Marvel Cinematic Universe

Iron Man does not

• Join a secret sect of ancient warriors after discovering them through an ex-member.
• Have a prolonged training montage where they teach him his new powers.
• Develop a budding frenemy relationship with a prominent member of their order who will betray him in the sequel because he's his iconic archnemesis.
• Discover an alien threat of limitless power that threatens his world and is the sworn enemy of his secret order.
• Face off multiple times against the human minion of the limitless god-being, someone he's never really had a relationship with before but who threatens to bring the god-being's destruction upon the world.
• Realize that all hope is lost because the limitless god-being has arrived to destroy the Earth and the order is powerless to stop it.
• Fly off into the sky to meet the god-being on its own turf and single-handedly defeat it, saving the world and proving himself the greatest of his order.

You want to compare Green Lantern to Iron Man because Hal is a blatant Expy of Tony Stark. They just copied Tony's personality and glued it onto Hal for this movie, and the trailers made this pretty explicit. But the similarities between their movies begin and end there.

Dr. Strange, on the other hand, hits every single plot point from Green Lantern. Dr. Strange is Green Lantern done right. Green Lantern attempted to imitate Iron Man and did poorly, while Dr. Strange just straight-up flexed on Green Lantern and showed it how that exact story is done.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 17th 2019 at 12:03:29 PM

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AOS Season 5 had Thanos' attack happen simultaneously with Graviton's rampage. And between 5 and 6, at least a few months passed by.

No matter how you spin it, Season 6 showing nothing of the snap makes absolutely no sense.

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They retconned the time frame. Simple as that

Forever liveblogging the Avengers

There are small hints that is what's happening, but no actual confirmation. You could easily handwave those hints to mean something else — from the Confederacy lying to Graviton to the "alien attack" on New York being something else entirely. There is no point where it's completely confirmed that Thanos's forces are invading Wakanda.

There was an interview where the showrunners stated that they didn't know when Season 6 would be airing and didn't want to spoil Endgame, so decided that it would take place pre-Infinity War. So it does.

Edited by alliterator on Oct 17th 2019 at 11:43:01 AM

The fact that you even have to hand-wave the Red Skies Crossover into something else to pretend AOS is still in-continuity with a film series that has never once cared about it is, itself, another demonstration of how much the MCU doesn't care about AOS.

The MCU is the red-headed step-child of the MCU. It always has been, it always will be. Kevin Feige hasn't been out getting cigarettes these last seven years.

AOS is in-continuity with the MCU in the same way that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is in-continuity with DareDevil. Per the first issue of their comic, the Ninja Turtles got their powers from the same mutagen that blinded Matt Murdock and have spent their lives battling Hand knock-off ninjas, the Foot. DareDevil, however, has never addressed this and will never address it, because that continuity relationship only flows one way.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 17th 2019 at 12:48:17 PM

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Yes, yes it is.

As for the fact that we have to handwave away those hints, it's the exact same thing in the movies. We have to handwave away the "Eight Years Later" in Spider-Man: Homecoming and we have to handwave away Fury saying it was Thor's fault in Avengers when he had already met aliens in Captain Marvel and we have to handwave away lots of other small details that don't matter.

Agents of SHIELD (and the other Marvel TV shows) are in the same universe as the movies, much in the same way that the Daredevil comic is in the same universe as the Guardians of the Galaxy comic. Matt Murdock isn't going to show up next to the Guardians and vice versa, but they all still take place in the same universe.

This is a page from Star-Lord #1◊.

The comics do this all the time. So do the movies. And the shows reference the movies.

But the movies don't reference the shows. In ten years, the closest to acknowledgement the shows have ever gotten was that one character from the cancelled Agent Carter series cameo'd for five seconds in a single shot of Avengers: Endgame.

Agents, meanwhile, has spent seven years begging for senpai to notice them, and has gotten absolutely nothing for their effort.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 17th 2019 at 1:16:21 PM

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

That was from several years ago when Star-Lord was trapped on Earth. Also, I said Guardians of the Galaxy, not Star-Lord, so thank you for proving my point.

In any case, the reason that comics are able to do this and not the movies with the show is very, very simple: comics have an unlimited budget, no actors, and zero filming schedules. Movies and TV shows have vastly different filming schedules, which is why they've never been able to do a proper crossover, aside from Jarvis showing up. But Jarvis did show up, proving that they all exist in the same universe.

Not that it needed proving, because they are all in the MCU anyway and Feige has never stated otherwise. Why people keep trying to disavow that, I don't know.

Does any of this matter for either side of the aisle?

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

People who dislike the shows tend to try and "prove" that they aren't a part of the MCU. It's silly.

Once again: Nick Fury has cameo'd in AOS twice, Maria Hill multiple times, Lady Sif twice, and a massive storyline involved The Winter Soldier. Just because the movies don't acknowledge the shows (since, again, vastly different film schedules and writers and directors who don't want to make the audience watch a show to understand a reference) doesn't mean they are both aren't in the same universe.

Edited by alliterator on Oct 17th 2019 at 12:26:41 PM

Allot of that was Perlmutter he was still in charge of the TV shows post the split of the films from everything else. So while Feige and the other creatives (TV and films) might have wanted to coordinate more, corporate politics (ie Perlmutter being an ass) may have prevented it. Several people post the split came out stating that a great deal of the Fox/Marvel/Disney conflicts were 90% thanks to Perlmutter being a jerk. Once HE was out of the way the relationship with Fox (regarding character rights at least on the movie side- Usage of Ego and Nega Sonic Teenage Warhead as examples) was much smoother.

And note, while many somewhat correctly predicted that 'Endgame' would for the most part restore the status quo, ie return everybody who was snapped back to life, I don't think anybody predicted the FIVE YEAR GAP, its possible many eps were written/filmed and in the can before hand, and the Russos were keeping such a tight lid on SPOILERS, the AOS crew had no idea they were going to GET another season so yeah...its little wonder that Ao S is so wonky.

It's true that the AOS showrunners expected Season 5 to be their last and didn't really have a plan for Season 6. When they were renewed, they were asked if they had a story and they said yes — but only for the next two seasons and that was it.

I'm willing to bet you that they will mention the Snap in the last season.

I mean, I actually like Agents, so I'm gonna flip that right around on you.

Some fans of the show are super insistent on trying to validate the show by proving that the shows really do have deep connections to the series and that ANY DAY NOW, JUST YOU WAIT, Agents Fitzsimmons will be in Avengers 2/3/4 IT'LL HAPPEN 'CAUSE IT'S ALL CANON.

But the reality is that it's not. The shows are a secondary canon tier. The shows acknowledge the movies, but the movies don't acknowledge the shows. If Avengers 4 blew up the Earth, Agents would incorporate that in their show. But if Agents blew up the Earth (And yes, I know they technically did but it was an alternate timeline), the movies would keep on trucking like it never happened.

What happens in the films is canon to the shows but what happens in the shows is not canon to the films. This is true of both Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and the Netflix shows. That's not a measure of quality. You don't need to prove that Luke Cage will be in Thor 4 JUST YOU WAIT in order for Luke Cage to be a good show worth watching. That's just how it is.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Oct 17th 2019 at 1:58:25 PM

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To wit, I actually preferred the Netflix shows (with the exception of Iron Fist) over most of the movies.

Well, DD season 2 was bad but even that had a great version of the Punisher so it wasn't all bad.

I honestly still can't quite fathom that the Marvel Netflix era is over. It was such a unique format. Loved the "Release an entire Season at once" concept.

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To be honest I've been kind of slacking on finishing the remaining seasons. The news about the Netflixverse coming to an end kind of put me off, though I hear DD season 3 and LC season 2 are really good.

Luke Cage season 2 basically takes everything great about season 1 and keeps it while taking everything bad about season 1 and replacing it with something better.

I fell behind on the Netflix Marvel series because the next one I had to watch was season one of Iron Fist (2017)...

And yes, I heard it supposedly got better in the second season. I just have problems justifying myself watching 8+ hours of bad TV to get there.

Then again, I once watched 17+ hours of Transformers: Energon for the Complete Monster thread, so I guess I'm a massive hypocrite or something. :/

Edited by chasemaddigan on Oct 17th 2019 at 4:44:54 AM

I don't blame you. Even the first season does improve a lot in the second half, but even then

1. It improves enough to be entertaining, but still far below the other shows.

2. The first half is soul-crushingly boring. It was honestly some of the worst TV I'd seen in a long time.

Edited by Draghinazzo on Oct 17th 2019 at 4:46:24 AM

Well at least you had a reason for Energon.

So try to find one for Iron Fist.

Huh what was it like when the Netflix shows were announced?

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

I didn't say you, I said people who dislike the shows. You are against it because you believe there are "tiers" to canon in the MCU. There aren't. Everything — the movies and the shows — are canon. It doesn't matter if the movies don't reference the shows, it doesn't matter if it's a one-way street — a street is still a street. They are all part of the MCU.

I know that's never going to happen, because, again, the filming schedules are vastly different for movies and TV shows and the writers/directors for the movies don't want to bog down their audience with references and random cameos from characters they don't know. But — and here's the thing you appear not to be getting — it doesn't matter. The shows are still part of the MCU, no matter if the movies reference them or not.

Some people took the phrase "it's all connected" and assumed that it should be taken super literally and if it wasn't, then none of the shows were canon. But fuck that shit. All of the shows are canon.

JUST A RUMOR: Marvel Studios has made the decision to move ahead with the third 'ANT-MAN' film. Expected to film Summer of 2021: https://twitter.com/PodcastMurphy/status/1184858490134642690?s=19

Assuming Blade gets the February 2022 release (and we already know Black Panther took the May slot), does this mean we might not even get Guardians 3 until 2023?

I guess, after a night of pillaging and raping, a Viking wants a little something to go with his cocoa.

You did bring it up as an explanation as to the nature of the argument, and you've been called out on doing that exact thing before when this topic gets brought up. It's not exactly difficult to read it as an accusation, given the context, and if it wasn't I wonder why you even said so in the first place?

Edited by KnownUnknown on Oct 17th 2019 at 2:23:20 AM

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

We don't know when Blade is being released. We do know that James Gunn probably won't jump right into GOTG vol 3 until after he is done doing the press tour for The Suicide Squad, which will probably be 2021 (the movie comes out August 2021). If Gunn starts filming GOTG Vol 3 late 2021, the movie itself probably won't be out until 2023.

Because I've encountered plenty of people who attempt to distance the movies from the shows because they hate the shows.

Edited by alliterator on Oct 17th 2019 at 2:23:50 AM

Just watch the first half of season 1 while making dinner or something.

I say, having still only seen four and a half seasons of the Netflix shows, none of which were Iron Fist seasons.