Marvel Cinematic Universe

Tony Stark comes off as a person who has a life waiting for him. A normal life. Life with Pepper and whatever children they may have. And the only reason he is unable to enjoy it is because of his desire to save the world to make amends for his mistakes. He honestly deserves a peaceful retirement after all he's been through, and needs a Passing the Torch moment to the next generation of heroes that he can 100% trust to handle.

In contrast, Steve Rogers has no normal life waiting for him. He can't imagine having a normal life. To him, being Captain America fighting the good fight is what he considers to be normal. Because he has nothing left to lose at this point, he'll continuing fighting till the day he dies.

Hence why I believe Captain America is most likely going to die while Iron Man is most likely going to live but retire.

Edited by Shadao on Jan 17th 2019 at 7:28:02 AM

I wonder if that's what'll finally sideline him from heroing. The films have been calling attention to his physical injuries over the past few years, such as the scenes in ... Civil War? ... when he's suffering from pain and numbness in his arm.

It would be consistent if he retires simply due to disability. And I do want him to have a life with Pepper. Heck, she deserves that if nothing else.

This is partly why I expect it won't go that way, because it's too obvious and Marvel's been heaping subversions on us lately. But I agree with your reasoning.

It might leak out through the hole in his guts.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 17th 2019 at 10:33:57 AM

Funnily enough with this talk of Messiah types I think Tony,Vison and Steven Rogers fit into ' Messiah' espicaly when you look at how vision talks and regards humanity

Anymore obvious than Marvel won't use the Mysterio is really Evil All Along and a Fake Ultimate Hero twist because it's too obvious?

I will say that Endgame doesn't really make it clear if Iron Man is going to die or live. He's really a 50/50 by this point. Honestly, I'll be more surprised if the Cap lives and peacefully retires with Sharon Carter after this film. Now that's a subversion of my expectations.

Edited by Shadao on Jan 17th 2019 at 7:35:07 AM

Having a life waiting for him doesn't necessarily mean he isn't going to die, just that it's a bit crueler. See; retirony, 'I have a family', locket with picture of girlfriend/wife, etc.

I think one of the biggest reasons for why Tony retiring is hard to envision is because Tony's powerset is set up so that he doesn't really have to ever retire. He now has Iron Man drones. There's nothing keeping him from being an old man in a wheelchair, flying missions around the world through a remotely-piloted suit.

I think that's why people are so convinced Endgame is going to kill him off. RDJ wants to leave the franchise and it's difficult to imagine him actually stopping any other way.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 17th 2019 at 8:36:10 AM

To be fair, Far from Home is a Sony production, not Marvel. Marvel is sort of borrowing Spider-Man for the MCU, as I understand, but doesn't control the stories.

That said, I'm at the point with these films where I'm not counting on them to rabidly adhere to either the formulas of superhero stories in general or the strict plots of the comics they're using as source material. I go into each new one with an open mind. Marvel has earned that benefit of the doubt for me.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 17th 2019 at 10:38:33 AM

While possible futures in the comics do seem to have him still going or dead, I could maybe see him retiring if he had a trusted protege to pass the torch to. Don't think Peter (assuming revived) is quite ready for that though.

They could always kill Tony off as a way to start the Darkest Hour of the movie, while Cap dies at the end in a way that guarantees the victory of the team.

Of course, they could always just let Tony starve to death in the Guardian's ship. Which would be, if nothing else, a very ballsy move.

Like I said, it's a 50/50 in regards to Tony Stark's survival. I'm not entirely invested in one or the other since I am not certain how it will end, unlike Captain America which I always see a Heroic Sacrifice in the end.

As for him never retiring and thus has to die for RDJ to leave, while there is a point about Stark never retiring due to the convenience of his technology, it does give MCU an excuse to take him off-screen from Phase 4 if he's crippled in a wheelchair and replace him with The Other Darrin voice actor if RDJ doesn't really want to come back. And it does offer RDJ a way back in should he ever change his mind.

And admittedly, I do like the idea of Stark being Old Bruce Wayne from Batman Beyond.

Edited by Shadao on Jan 17th 2019 at 7:45:25 AM

I'd be a little miffed if Marvel pretends that RDJ is still behind the mask while using someone else; that's a cheap out. (And don't bring up Red Skull being played by someone impersonating Hugo Weaving; that was a bit part.)

I think it'd be more likely that the Iron Legion still exists in universe while being controlled by someone else, with Tony Stark in retirement to be pulled out for cameos whenever they offer RDJ enough money.

Edited by Fighteer on Jan 17th 2019 at 10:54:58 AM

That's actually a better scenario.

I totally expect them to do the obvious plot with Mysterio, because of what Rogues Gallery he’s from.

Despite being the small fry of the MCU, Spider-Man’s mythos is still way ahead of the others in terms of recognizability. With Black Panther, who audiences in general are completely unfamiliar with, you can take a despicable and problematic archenemy and turn him into an honorable and far less problematic heroic character. Not even the most pedantic comics fans were too invested in Man-Ape being adapted accurately.

But this is Mysterio, part of one of the most popular and well known rogues galleries of all time. People know Mysterio. People are hype to see Spidey fight, even in a roundabout way, the Mysterio they think of when they hear the name. This isn’t a character audiences barely know being introduced to them, this is a classic character liked even by general audiences making his film debut for the first time.

If there was ever a time to go In Name Only simply for the sake of being unexpected, this isn’t it. People like Kayfabe too. Plus, I think the only MCU director who did things like that solely for the sake of defying expectation was Whedon.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 17th 2019 at 8:06:08 AM

To me Tony dying feels right, but I would take a wedding, too.

Well, they kept Vulture as a villain in Homecoming, but completely changed his backstory and motivation, so it's not like they're allergic to deviating a nanometer from the comics. That said, I also expect Mysterio to be a villain; they aren't going to deviate that much.

Re: Old Man Tony

They should totally introduce the Iron Avengers and the Iron Mansion from Earth X.

And Captain America wearing a US flag like a Roman dress.

With regards to keeping the Iron Legion around, having Tony alive but "retired" also means they can make follow-up cameos easier.

In addition to other characters showing up in his place and being like, "I have instructions from Mr. Stark to do X," they can also pay RDJ to just do voice lines. Like, they could have an Iron Man drone show up and play a message from Tony or something.

The nature of the character means there's a lot of flexibility for longevity after RJD leaves, without ever having to actually bring him into a studio again or recasting. You can't really do that with Thor or Cap or the Hulk or whoever, but Stark's powerset is perfectly set up to keep the character going long after the actor leaves.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 17th 2019 at 10:35:03 AM

Also, I want to see Riri Williams, dammit. If only to make those Comicsgate fans heads explode.

God, yes. Riri would be a great way of keeping the Iron Man mythos going and give Tony someone to legitimately pass the torch to.

Spider-Man is Spider-Man and his relationship with Tony works great as a mentor/mentee relationship, but Spider-Man is never going to be the next Iron Man, nor would anyone want him to. He's Spider-Man! He's got Spider-Man stuff to do. Riri is a character who can actually wear the suit and carry on with the Iron Man mythos; a true successor to help with easing RDJ out of the MCU.

It's a legitimately good idea. Drinking huge mugs of salty Alt-Right tears when a black woman becomes the new Iron Man would just be a bonus.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jan 17th 2019 at 10:48:16 AM

I would be thrilled to see Riri be introduced in the MCU.

...and I also hope that the actress who gains the role receives a worthwhile social media team to stamp out the inevitable harassment mob. :/

Or Twitter and Insta could actually take this seriously like they never do...

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jan 17th 2019 at 10:04:25 AM

Sometimes I feel like I was ahead of the curve in hating social media like Twitter.

even before social media people sent them poison pen letters,some things never change

We all were, man.

Changing Vulture’s backstory but otherwise keeping him identifiably the same isn’t at all the same as changing Mysterio to be a hero.

One only changes the character deeper down while keeping them in major respects the same as their source. The other completely alters the character conceptually.

Pretty much every adaptation of Vulture changes his backstory, because why he’s an old man in a birdsuit who fights Spidey has never been as important to the character as the simple fact that he’s an old man in a bird suit who fights Spidey. And Homecoming absolutely adhered to that. And if they still wanted to stick that closely with Vulture, who isn’t as well known as Mysterio, it’s unlikely they would go even further with the latter.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jan 17th 2019 at 11:19:03 AM