The General US Politics Thread

Bullies are especially than bullies when society encourages their bullying. This is not a matter to ignore.

Hopefully nobody burns them down and they simply shut down on their own due to lack of business.

edited 6th Jun '17 11:09:59 AM by M84

They're done for once he is no longer president anyways.

They seem done for precisely because he's President

There was talk about how the Republican establishment were told by their own people some years back that they had to make some serious changes if they wanted to remain viable, and they ignored it to go in the opposite direction even harder than they already were.

It does seem fairly likely that Trump could bite them in the ass about that, but at this point I wonder what the chances of them actually (slowly but steadily) easy off their...horribleness to something more sane. Because things like their new strategy for the 2018 and 2020 makes it seem like they're going to dig their heels in even deeper because they just don't see any turning back now.

x7 That article makes me sad.

We live in a reality where the President may live-tweet the testimony of the former FBI Director testifying (presumably) against him...on my birthday. What a time to be alive.

Any possibility that the Republican party would recognize the error of their ways and make efforts to turn around and come back to sanity died on November 9th, 2016. Trump was a huge gamble, and if you listened to party leaders leading up to election day, you know that they knew it. Trump was naked, unapologetic, monstrous bigotry incarnate. He sidestepped dogwhistles and just fed hate and fear directly to the public.

And the reason why Trump is a Point of No Return is the fact that it worked. Trump worked. Trump proved that monstrous, naked, unapologetic bigotry would be rewarded with infinite success and prosperity. He proved once and for all to the Republican Party that if they want results, all they have to do is stop trying to be decent people and just embrace the horror show. He established in no uncertain terms that if they just came out and pushed authoritarian drivel and hateful policies, America would have their back.

They aren't coming back from that. Individuals here or there may, but they'll be drummed out of the party faster than you can say, "We authoritarians now!" Expecting them to turn around now is asking them to abandon a working, proven, successful strategy in favor of something intangible like basic human decency which is a nice thing to pay lip service to but doesn't put asses in Congress.

EDIT: ...and there is nothing more important to the Republican party than putting asses in Congress.

edited 6th Jun '17 12:34:38 PM by TobiasDrake

Lindsey Graham on Trump Russia: "I don't believe Trump colluded with the Russians because I don't think he colludes with his own staff."

Gonna need some burn heal!

edited 6th Jun '17 12:37:44 PM by tclittle

He's not wrong. The actual conspiracy could very well be limited to his minions.

I mean, as much as you can call this them winning. They care barely do anything, he's under constant investigation and scrutiny, there is a very real chance they could lose the house (and maybe Senate) and Trump still lost the popular vote in election with one of the worst turnouts ever, and his approval ratings are terrible.

Not to downgrade the danger of Trump and what he can do and represents, but this really isn't as clear a "win" as you're making it out to be. It wasn't an overwhelming defeat or win for the Democrats, unfortunately, but perspective.

edited 6th Jun '17 12:50:50 PM by LSBK

Not knowing what to do with a trophy isn't the same as not knowing how to win one. This Presidency hasn't been a victory for anyone but Trump's fevered delusions, but the election was and that's what they're going to be looking at when the time comes back around to ask themselves, "How do I win an election?"

Right now, we live in a world where a Republican can honestly say, "I body-slammed a journalist and then I won the election!" That's the state of affairs for the GOP. Look forward to seeing shit like this that you'd think politicians should rightly be ashamed of instead glorified in tomorrow's campaign ads.

"I chokeslammed a protestor. Vote for me, the man not afraid to f*ck up protestors."

Most likely. The larger a conspiracy is and the longer it goes on for, the logically more likely it is a mistake is made or someone blows the whistle. That's precisely why such ludicrous theories as the moon landing hoax or '9/11 was an inside job' wouldn't be feasible; they're simply too big and would require the silencing or paying off of hundreds if not thousands of people. And the United States has a very poor track record when it comes to keeping these things a secret for any significant length of time (e.g: Watergate, Iran-Contra, Edward Snowden... they couldn't even cover up a simple affair, fer chrissakes. :V)

Apologies, went a bit off-topic there. I just realised that if Trump deliberately limited the conspiracy to a handful of people, that might be giving him too much credit. I don't think he has that much common sense; I'm more inclined to think he can only get a handful of people to go along with it in the first place. :V

Agreed. I'm going to be an idealist again, but I reckon if the Republicans don't take Trump's unpopularity as a warning sign, then there'll be some kind of internal schism. Either that or the whole party will go down in flames, but that's rather unlikely.

edited 6th Jun '17 1:08:59 PM by PresidentStalkeyes

"Trump is a Point of No Return is the fact that it worked. Trump worked."

He BARELY work, this is a distintion, this is not episode 3 were he declared is own galatic empire and wiped all is enemies while basket in is own glory, trump barely manage to win and he is losing more and more engagement, he WIN....and them he fuck up is own triumph because that is what he is, now the republican party is drag down with him because of that.

Barely is still winning. I'm going to wait until the time comes when the Republicans aren't in full control of Washington before I start doomsaying the party. All the Democrats have demonstrated since November is that we're really good at two things: infighting and narrow losses.

People have been saying that Trump spells doom for the GOP since the primaries. I used to be one of them, even. But to still be saying it now is just blindly optimistic. The fact is: they don't give out government offices for second place. Losing is losing. A narrow loss is still a loss. A Democrat that was only 2% or 3% behind the needed votes still means a Republican now holds that office.

Hillary won the popular vote! That's great, but there's a Republican in office. A Democrat almost won in Kansas! That's great, but there's a Republican in office. A Democrat almost beat the guy who body-slammed a reporter! That's great, but there's a Republican in office.

There is no existential threat to the fate of the Republican party when every Democratic "victory" finishes with, "but he lost and now there's a Republican in office." This is the biggest problem Democrats face right now: we, as a party, were so shocked by Trump's victory that we've entered into a delusional coma and now we live in a magical land in which the Republicans somehow aren't a threat anymore and the only thing that matters is what flavor of Democrat should lose to them going forward.

We need to be gearing up to fight harder, not patting ourselves on the back about how they'll totally implode under their own power any day now. Leave undeserved congratulations about imaginary successes to Trump.

edited 6th Jun '17 1:12:38 PM by TobiasDrake

But he barely won against someone who, despite all their qualifications, might very have been a terrible candidate for multiple reasons, incredibly low turnout, and only squeaking by in a key few states. Trump's victory is not in anyway and example of a standard election, and it's disingenuous to treat it as if it is. No one is saying that types like Trump can't win, but the fact remains that their chances of actually winning are much lower if you even just change the person he was running against. Among other things.

Given the timing of that body-slam and the election and voting, it's also disingenuous to say that guy winning would be the standard now.

I'm not trying to be idealistic and go "they didn't really win" or whatever, but you're blatantly ignoring a lot of things that make this entire state of affairs a lot more complicated than your narrative would imply. Giant gambles and terrible decisions don't stop existing just because once in a blue moon they pay off. And even then the "payoff" has been much less than it should have been.

Edit: And none of this is to say it's particularly likely the Republican establishment will change, just and acknowledgment that "Trump won, so they won't." is very flawed reasoning when you look at everything that made that win possible and everything that's been happening since then.

edited 6th Jun '17 1:27:36 PM by LSBK

There comes a point where you have to ask whether the Democrats even can win in the face of so much of this country's stupidity. The Republican Party, and Trump's people in particular, is less a fragmentary madhouse, less an organized political faction, and more of a force of nature, the human Id, a tornado of anthropomorphic malice, the Scourge of God, the political knoutmaster that will whip America's back raw, break us down, and destroy us until we can throw them off and rebuild.

NVM.

edited 6th Jun '17 1:23:03 PM by FireCrawler2002

Really? You forgot the David Vs Goliath analogy for some events then.

edited 6th Jun '17 1:21:56 PM by Luigisan98

I feel at this point it's probably better to just ignore what Fire Crawler 2002 says.

edited 6th Jun '17 1:22:50 PM by LSBK

I see.

But what you guys miss the point...is that whatever the things Trump will get, he'll eventually lose in terms of his legacy. Being remembered by many as a spineless, egotistical, selfish, racist and bigoted excuse of man who only did harm and only cared for his own self, nothing else, nothing more.

Once Trump's presidency is over, filmmakers will be scrambling to make a movie about him. It's perfect material. Hell, they'll probably have to tone down his antics to make it more believable.

edited 6th Jun '17 1:29:49 PM by PresidentStalkeyes

And could it win big at the Oscars.

Nothing that has happened since the election has called into question the Republican ability to win elections. That's the thing. It doesn't matter how effective they are at running the country; they aren't going to change tactics until it's clear that their present course is no longer causing Republicans to enter office.

Getting Republicans elected is like selling a product. You can bitch and moan and cry all you want about my product, but if you come back every month and buy the new version, then why the f*ck should I care what you have to say? It's the same thing. If Republicans are winning enough votes to get elected then what they're doing is working, regardless of how shitty they are at actual governance.

Thoughts on California's single-payer plan? I'm unsure.