Character Development Thread--Discussion

Basically this, but I'd like to add that I've met writers who use RP style stuff to help understand their characters and that some writers do benefit from that kind of thing, as opposed to generic "sit around at a table with weird people, drink pangalactic gargleblasters and discuss the weather" stuff.

One thing I feel the need to point out, particularly because of the bit between Se and the Transcendent in Island, is that these worldviews are not mutually exclusive. A lot of people have in the past treated them as if they are, as Blackfire alludes to.

Shouting matches and arguments are drama. We don't necessarily need people hitting each other, though I won't complain if we have that happen.

Screw it.

edited 17th Apr '14 1:50:23 PM by CrystalGlacia

Speaking only for myself, my dislike of structured plots is mostly from my past experience as a DM (where I was emphatically against heavily-railroaded styles of play) and secondarily from seeing prior attempts here fail. The "spirit of spontaneity" has nothing to do with it. In fact, as some of you may remember, I tended to dismiss it as a substance-devoid emotional appeal back when it played a big role in debates.

edited 5th Apr '14 10:40:42 PM by nrjxll

In my time in the CD Ts, there was one attempt that failed. Much as I hate to bring this "we tried it once and now it's a bad idea forever" discussion up again, but I feel that it alienates people who could join the CD Ts and participate longer, because opportunities with different styles are not being explored properly.

I'm including the Shared Story Thread in that.

I don't believe I participated in that, so I don't count it.

I just noticed something that is now really bugging me.

...the entire structure would suggest materials science advancing the direction of stronger and lighter for at least a hundred years from anything else on the island.

That's quite an assumption to make — off the top of my head, m8e and Sonzai could very well have things on the island that equal or surpass the mech's technology. Perhaps you simply misstated?

edited 6th Apr '14 11:50:31 AM by KillerClowns

Sonzai and m8e's big constructs are both floating offshore at the moment. It's a minor but important distinction.

I suppose there's Claire herself, but whether she's even noticeable yet is something I'm dubious on.

I was actually thinking of the computer-place Sonzai had you exploring as a possibility — unless it's also offshore, in which case, d'oh, my bad for not paying enough attention to that storyline.

I'm pretty certain that place was in the jungle somewhere.

That occurred to me as well, but given that the metagrams had orders to self-destruct to prevent contaminating the timestream, I assume their rescue operation would have pulled or scorched anything that might also do so.

Any more discussion today?

Since it's been rather quiet lately, I'll speak a little about the proposed "structured CDT."

I wasn't around for the past "failed attempts" at such a thread, but from my standing those failed attempts (I'm assuming that refers to Titanic and Heist) fell flat due to reasons other than that they were structured CDTs. Titanic's setting was so specific that most characters couldn't participate without extensive retooling. Heist's failure, meanwhile, looks to be more or less the fault of one member (though the issues Titanic had probably also applied, just to a lesser extent).

This being said, I agree that going with a really RP-like CDT is probably a bad idea. If nothing else, it'd probably be really restrictive on character choice depending on the setting chosen, and constant invasions of the plot are probably bad for character building (especially if the character in question never encounters anything like it in their home story).

However, what I think could work instead is providing an Excuse Plot with some goal to accomplish. That way, characters have something to do that isn't just sitting around and talking, but there's still plenty of room for spontaneity as well as avoiding severe restriction of character choice.

On another note, I'm probably going to get back to work on the new thread sometime tonight. I know discussion isn't entirely over yet, but it'd probably be helpful to have it ready to go when we finally reach some sort of consensus.

Speaking of the new thread, I've decided that it might be better to replace the youkai staff with a staff mostly consisting of humans. The youkai were a big part of my original concept, but at the same time youkai aren't exactly common knowledge and it might be a bit of a turnoff for newcomers if they have to constantly look up what the heck a tsukumogami (for example) is.

edited 7th Apr '14 1:51:14 PM by Yomegami

Aww, I'm gonna have to edit my intro post drafts now! (My current version involves Moonlit Blossom idly wondering about youkai biology, and if there is any way to discover details without scaring her hosts.)

Seriously, I feel you reconsider the change — I like the extra flavor it could grant.

edited 7th Apr '14 1:57:18 PM by KillerClowns

@Night and KC: Yep, the metagrams are gone, without any significant traces of them ever being there. (And they were in the Jungle, but in a different direction from the Ruins.)

The only thing significantly advanced that I have still on Pax Island would be Kina's spyglass. It's from the Swashcoupler, but it looks like a completely ordinary antique or souvenir, so she hasn't tried to use it (and it's completely dormant/off at the moment.) Of course, Azatha's fortress is completely separate and doesn't count. Also, the yacht hasn't arrived yet, so doesn't count either, even though it's likely more advanced than it looks, although not nearly to Swashcoupler levels.

@Yomegami about the new thread: I vote for keeping the original youkai theme. After all, many youkai can shapeshift into more human or human-like forms anyways, and I think it would give it unique flavor. Of course, I also have plenty of youkai characters (from Kina's story and Hoshimira University) that I was thinking of adding. (At least one of them is on the yacht, in fact.) Or you could always just make them all cute girls. Either way works.

@About the discussion: I'm still quite busy, and while I will have the time to post occasionally, I do not have the time or energy to get involved in any serious discussions of the CDTs at the moment. Although just as an aside, I refer everyone to this Thomas Edison quote.◊ I think it sums up my opinion on these so-called "failures".

There's quite a number of ideas that previously caused obscene amounts of drama when attempted, and so which we decided to avoid like a plague. Now, owing to an evolution of community, I think we could try them again in some form. Perhaps there's some old abandoned ideas can be cautiously resurrected. If they fail, they fail, but this time, I'm sure nobody will mistake the post-mortem criticisms for personal slights or fear of change.

edited 7th Apr '14 3:54:31 PM by KillerClowns

Putting aside that I don't admire Thomas Edison in any way, shape or form, that quote is still excellent.

That's an excellent way of approaching it.

@Youkai Theme - Personally, I think it should stay thay way.

Don't have time for a detailed post, but a couple of quick responses.

Re Maybe-No-Longer-Youkai-Inn idea: Considering that the entirety of my familiarity with and exposure to the concept of youkai consists of having just clicked on that link, I have to admit I would be in favor of changing the staff to humans. But honestly, I'm not sure how much unfamiliarity would actually be a problem (especially since my characters would be unfamiliar as well).

Re Edison quote: The main issue with this line of thought, for me, is that - as I've said a couple of times now - I don't see a particularly compelling reason we need to find a "way that works" in the first place. My original post about past "failures" was explaining why I dislike structured plots, which is not the same thing as why I'm not in favor of trying one for the CDTs. It's a factor, yes, but the real issue is that (like the Setting thread) I think it's a solution in search of a problem.

edited 7th Apr '14 4:01:58 PM by nrjxll

Didn't get a whole lot done with the new thread today (I spent most of my free time today sleeping), but I have a basic overview and list of amenities ready.

The general gist, copied from my notes (Subject to change):

The inn is located in a remote, mountainous part of Japan.
It sits directly at the foot of one such mountain. The surrounding area mostly consists of bamboo forest, although the area around the inn is cleared. A dirt path leads up to the front of the inn, and another dirt path starting at the inn's back leads up the mountain to a garden and observatory area.
The inn itself is built in Shoin-zukuri style, mostly out of wood. It's colored very plainly in shades of naturalistic brown and tan. Its two most notable features are its large, sloping roof, and the fact that it seems to be built into the mountain's slope. It also has quite a few windows (mostly marking guest rooms), and the entrance is a large sliding door.
Internally, the inn very closely follows the Washitu style; tatami floors abound, and the grand majority of doors are sliding (although the guest room doors are hinged with locks, in the interest of keeping them secure).

And the list of amenities I came up with thus far:

• Dining Area/Kitchen
• Bar
• Garden/Observatory
• Dojo (Serves same purpose as Sparring Area)
• Outdoor Spring/Bathing Area (Rooms have private bathrooms)
• Game Room
• Gym

It's a rather short list, thus far. The trick is finding stuff that fits the setting, while at the same time gives as many types of characters something to do as possible.

After thinking about it some more, I've decided that the youkai staff will remain in place for now. Without the real-world context, there's really not a lot separating the youkai from, say, Mansion's drones, and the amount of research a potential newcomer might have to do could be remedied by throwing in a few informative links on the thread's page (there's already going to be a few links describing all the Japanese architectural terms).

Hopefully by the next update, the amenities list will be a little longer and I'll have a basic map ready.

edited 7th Apr '14 6:50:34 PM by Yomegami

It sounds awesome so far. Really good work.

Alternately, the newcomer could just not do research and stumble through things because their character is also ignorant.

I mean, we do try to impose divides between player and character knowledge, but if I don't have to risk accidental metagaming...

I could see the Japanese architectural terms being a problem, because even if a character wouldn't recognize something by name they'll still be seeing it. It might be better to work purely with descriptions.

I'm sure I'll end up participating in the next thread no matter what it turns out to be, and I still haven't done this enough to have a general preference (aside from a thread with lots of activity, but that's out of anyone's individual hands).

That said, anyone gonna post in Archipelago in the general 'today' region of time?

Duckie is kind of waiting for Howell to respond.