Split?: Added Alliterative Appeal

@Madrugada: This is like the difference between Incredibly Lame Pun (which is about puns) and Just For Pun (the punny trope title index).

Added Alliterative Appeal is not a Super-Trope, genre, or index of tropes related to each other in meaningful ways.

^ That analogy is faulty. Incredibly Lame Pun is about a specific occurrence with puns. But there still has not been a specific occurrence with alliteration proposed by you for a new trope page.

And I don't know where you're getting your argument from about Added Alliterative Appeal NOT being "an index of tropes related to each other in meaningful ways." That's exactly what it is; everything listed on that page has one wholly objective feature in common: they're articles with alliterative appellations. That's perfectly suitable for an index, no different than This Trope Name References Itself, Index Of Exact Trope Titles, and the Just For Pun page you had just mentioned.

edited 14th Jun '11 8:51:29 AM by SeanMurrayI

^ They're suitable as a Just For Fun index, yes, because Just for Fun gets to break some of the expectations required of normal tropes. Otherwise, it's tiptoeing fairly close to a Regex Generated Index because the tropes' only relation to each other is that their titles follow a particular pattern.

On another note, since nobody's done any sampling of usage yet, let me see what I can find:

This sample is conducted across the "The" range, Main and media namespaces only:

Potholed as a Troper Tic

• The Amazing Race (alleged Fan Nickname)
• The Amazing World Of Gumball
• The Black Fleet Crisis
• The Butcher
• The Lucifer And Biscuit Hammer
• The Secret Island Of Dr Quandary
• The Simpsons A-L
• The Tales Of Beedle The Bard
• The Three Facesof Eve
• The TV Tropes Cast List

Works with only occasional occurences of alliteration (questionable tropability)

• The Beach Boys
• The Beatles
• The Fairly Odd Parents
• WebOriginal.The Fantastic Favio Bros
• The Father Luke Wolfe Trilogy
• The Karate Kid
• The Muppet Show
• The Nostalgia Critic
• The Powerpuff Girls
• FanFic.The Private Diary Of Elizabeth Quatermain
• The Producers
• The Red Green Show
• The Seventh Guest
• The Suite Life Of Zack And Cody

Works with claims of significant alliteration

• The Angry Video Game Nerd
• The Bards Tale (one character's Verbal Tic)
• FanFic.The End Is Near
• The Kalevala
• The Letter People
• The Magic Treehouse
• The Middle Man
• The Perils Of Penelope Pitstop (unexplained)
• The Sacred Diary Of Adrian Plass
• The Secret Life Of The American Teenager (Brenda's Verbal Tic)
• The Thrawn Trilogy (?)
• The Three Investigators
• The Venture Brothers

Should be linking to Alliterative Name

• The Bone Palace
• The Descended
• The Joker
• The Middle Man
• The West Wing

edited 15th Jun '11 10:39:11 AM by Stratadrake

Agreed. We need a trope to cover alliteration.

Crowner needs more votes.

I think the crowner is Borked. The "Leave As Is" option is at -1, but had 7 Nays and 4 Yays.

S/he's right - two "nay" votes don't seem to be registering on the "leave as is" option (as of now, it's at 0 exactly with 6 in favor and 8 against).

It happened to me once. My connection cut out just as I was registering a vote. When I got back, my vote had been added to the total count of yeas and nays, but not to the +/- number. I trust the total count, but not the +/- number.

Despite the crowner's poor maths, there's only one option that that is dominating all the others, so I say the course of action is pretty clear, especially since the crowner's been running for almost 5 months.

edited 11th Oct '11 7:43:57 PM by Ghilz

Although that still leaves the issue of determining the exact guidelines for this new alliteration trope.

edited 11th Oct '11 7:52:26 PM by SeanMurrayI

YKTTW is for that, I believe. Or write a sandbox.

Yeah, we can make a sandbox for that. As for the new index name, how about Alliterative Article Appellations?

Exactly, like Everything's Better With Indexes.

Everything's Better With Indexes isn't about a naming pattern, but about tropes about "writers throw X into a work for the hell of it". Several of the tropes on the list aren't even named "Everything's X With X".

Shouldn't that be Everythings Better With Tropes? If it's an index of works that use the tropes to use the tropes...

We have another thread to discuss that.

Anyway, should we make a crowner for the index name?

I think it's better if we work out exactly how the new trope is going to cover alliteration first. The winning crowner option still states that we've yet to determine this (or if it could even be a trope in the first place). "Alliteration in general" still doesn't appear to be any more fitting for a trope page than 'assonance in general' or 'rhyming in general'.

edited 21st Dec '11 1:21:09 PM by SeanMurrayI

Who says we can't do both at once? Last I checked, you can cover multiple points on replies, and reply to more than one in another reply.

But the alliteration parameters should not be for the new trope alone, but also the current index, as I just had to cut some bad examples.

I just think we're getting ahead of ourselves a little bit; I'd prefer that we already had some idea of exactly what we're looking to trope before a split. I'm a little upset that we've already had a crowner (and have had it called) before even that much has been realized.

The current index has perfectly fine parameters. Someone just has to keep an eye on it because not everyone reads the description or has a full grasp of what alliteration is (Alliterative Name has similar issues, too). I've been keeping this on my watchlist for this very reason; the large majority of tropes added incorrectly are typically being added by just one person though.

edited 21st Dec '11 1:47:47 PM by SeanMurrayI

Voting to split doesn't require defining the parameters first. It's not improper to make the split crowner and then decide what a new trope will be.

Still sounds pretty unorganized.

I know Fast Eddie has been making a big deal lately about making sure people voting in crowners know what they're voting on. Does anyone who voted for a split in this crowner actually know what they voted on? All the other crowners I've seen for page splits have always provided a much more concrete idea about what is intended to be constructed and achieved through that course of action than what we know regarding this topic.

Heck, at face value, the language in the leading crowner option would be most accurately suggesting a People Sitting On Chairs concept, which should make it null and void, anyway. The idea of "alliteration in general" should, at least, be placed lower on the totem pole than Stock Phrases nowadays; if "figures of speech" are being dismissed as not being tropeable, "general" grammar constructs should be right there with them.

edited 21st Dec '11 2:13:44 PM by SeanMurrayI

Well I think this might be a Super-Trope for most alliteration In-Universe. But I can see the potential for misuse, if people don't know what the actual parameters of alliteration are in the first place. It wouldn't invalidate the trope, but still be a problem.

Even as a Super-Trope for In-Universe occurrences, that seems too broad.

I can get behind a new trope which focuses on alliteration being used in a specific way (for example, the page quote from V For Vendetta being a full-on monologue built on alliteration; or works that incorporate alliteration as an intended, recurring theme, like a TV show with alliterative titles for all individual episodes), but to list any presence of alliteration In-Universe would just be too much; such a page would potentially include many coincidental, possibly inconsequential, or otherwise unrelated things.

edited 21st Dec '11 2:36:53 PM by SeanMurrayI

It isn't too broad. If there is deliberate alliteration, then it's still a trope. The sub tropes would be where the alliteration is (names, entire sentences, etc.). Being too broad would be those misusing it, which would be a problem with a general misunderstanding of the concept, not the super trope itself.

Not unless the alliteration carries meaning. A scene in a movie screenplay can be deliberately written to have the actors sitting in chairs, but that wouldn't make sitting in a chair a trope.

I can deliberately include a small example of assonance in a work for no other reason than that I like assonance. That wouldn't make the assonance itself a trope, either.

edited 21st Dec '11 3:03:35 PM by SeanMurrayI

Alliteration it wordplay. You'd need Word of God to state that such a thing is not deliberate, especially when done by the proper definition.

edited 21st Dec '11 5:01:32 PM by DragonQuestZ