adopting kitteh
Hm, most of those look like they should go to Troper Tales, but going as far as excising the RL section? Dunno. It's not like it hasn't been talked in RL media about how no one wants a prison or, more recently, a nuclear powerplant in their backyard.
EDIT: example that look like they should make it into the trope page:
- the cell towers one, provided a link to a study or newspaper publication can be added (otherwise it is just complaining)
- Wind turbines. Heck, we don't even need sourcing on that one.
- the child molesters and sex offenders one, in particular the first subexample.
example that definitively should be in troper tales: the whole first-person mentions to Florida and Chino.
edited 6th Apr '11 9:16:58 AM by SilentReverence
Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
It could also use some more fictional examples.
I see the Awesomeness.
It struck me as "taking over the page" which I've been warned to watch for. If you think they'd work better as Troper Tales, by all means.
Fight smart, not fair.
adopting kitteh
I think they'd work better there, yeah; in which case, would you mind helping me identify the examples which don't belong into Troper Tales just so we don't screw something when the move is made?
Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
I see the Awesomeness.
- [[color:red:This is a bad example and can probably be deleted.]]
- Real Life inversion: The town of Flora, IL lobbied to get a prison in their city, for the jobs. They went so far as to cut a rap video
and sent it to the governor.
- Similar things are happening in Upstate New York and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
- Prison lobbying is a real-life industrial complex: those who get one get the federal funding. Considering how the economy's right now, you've got tons of small towns lobbying for prisons. Now only if they'd push for schools like they did for prisons...
- On that note: Hardin, MT petitioned the federal government for use of their empty prison as a replacement for a facility the government was talking about shutting down. The facility in question? Guantanamo Bay. So while senators were saying that keeping suspected terrorists on American soil might be a security risk, a small town was saying, "Screw that, we'll take 'em."
- Subverted here in Chino: We're a stone's throw from the Chino Institute for Men and yet we're one of the safest cites around this side of Pomona. But are we known for our safe environment? Noooo....
- Truth in Television: In Florida, during the hunt for Serial Killer Danny Rollings, police at one point suspected a man named Edward Humphries committed the murders and arrested him. It took almost a month to clear Humphries name, but eventually the police did release him with a statement that Humphries was no longer a suspect. Despite Humphries' innocence, residents of Humphries' home town came forward with statements that they did not want the police to release "a serial killer" back into their town.
- This is a major obstacle for cell phone companies wanting to put up towers to cover some areas. The fact that nobody wants a big, ugly cell phone tower in their view is one thing keeping Can You Hear Me Now from becoming a Dead Horse Trope. So companies typically offer deals, or dress up the towers to hide them from view.
- More Truth in Television, this time regarding nuclear waste disposal in the United States (and elsewhere). Very few places are willing to take on this sort of waste, whether it be nuclear weapons related or energy production related and most fight tooth and nail to avoid even the mildest radioactive waste, often quoting this exact trope. This has made finding locations for safe and secure disposal extremely difficult.
- George Carlin did an entire bit about it.
- Two words: Wind Turbines. Yes, they're supposed to be better for the environment than power plants, but when they're in operation they're very noisy.
- Or they block the view of those living near the lake. Nevermind the idea that the long-term environmental effects of installing the turbines off-shore is a valid concern - focus on the aspect of having the view broken up by a wind turbine.
- Or more accurately, the view of the Kennedy's
- Or they block the view of those living near the lake. Nevermind the idea that the long-term environmental effects of installing the turbines off-shore is a valid concern - focus on the aspect of having the view broken up by a wind turbine.
- Highways and freeways. Sure, they can bring in a lot of business and tourists, but they also bring in a lot of noise and pollution. Often, a lot of residential areas are kept away from these for just these two reasons, and mostly businesses and public service buildings are near them.
- This doesn't just apply to housing; there are some businesses who can be just as picky about what's next to their parking lot as is a person who owns a house on some land. Some mall, hotel, and entertainment businesses will refuse to have their facilities built next to more "low-brow" businesses (like fast food joints, trucks stops, and grocery stores) or residents simply because it will make their overall image look bad.
- The strict laws and restrictions on convicted child molesters and sex offenders that stem from this trope have had an interesting side-effect in the US. Those on sex offender lists are usually not allowed to live or be within a certain distance (a thousand feet, a mile, whatever) from places where children often congregate (schools, playground, etc). In some cases, these restrictions are often so strong, those on the list end up not being allowed to live anywhere in or near a town, forcing them to move away and making it near impossible for them to hold on to a job. They move to the next town, who then see a large upswing in registered sex offenders living in the area and pass similar laws, forcing them to move again to the next town, lather-rinse-repeat. The end result is bands of sex offenders roaming the countryside, unable to settle down anywhere and make a living. Your Mileage May Vary as to whether this is unfortunate or they deserve this fate.
- There's also a case somewhere in Florida where a camp of about a hundred now-homeless registered sex offenders sprung up under a bridge because that was the only place outside the restricted zones set around schools and parks.
- It also leads to the Fridge Horror scenario that many sex offenders no longer maintain a permanent residence and tend to stay off the grid where possible, which means that all of those tracking laws are now essentially useless.
- The proposed Tasmanian pulp mill has generated this reaction to the point of garnering national attention over the rather divided opinions, even to action against the company.
- In Germany, it's called the "St. Florians-Prinzip" (Saint Florian's principle). Named after the saint who saves believers from fires. What it means? This sentence tells it: "Dear Saint Florian, spare my house, light up someone else's!" (In German, it rhymes.)
- Home owner's associations (HO As) which have jurisdiction over homes in their area. They can restrict everything from the color of houses to the use of clothes lines. This has lead to several legal battles between residents and HO As claiming to act in the best interest of the community.
edited 6th Apr '11 12:58:01 PM by Deboss
Fight smart, not fair.
I see the Awesomeness.
Son of a whore, I can't get the colors to work right, so I'll just comment down here.
1) "inversion for prisons" etc: this is something that happens that might be better else where, it's not so much "it's okay in my backyard" as seeing it as a chance to earn money.
2) "subverted here in Chino" send straight to Troper Tales
3) "Serial Killer" seeing as it's a person, rather than an object or something, and it's a rumor mongering thing, I'd say delete this example.
4) cell phone towers: good example
5) nuclear waste: also good
6) George Carlin: belongs in Comedians rather than Real Life. Or something, I forget what the actual Namespace for comedians is.
7) Wind turbines: terminate "two words" with extreme prejudice in front of it's family and watch them suffer. Dump the two sub bullets and leave the rest.
8) Highways: fine.
9) Businesses: bad example, that's something else, not Not in My Backyard!, possibly related to reputation.
10) Child molesters: might work better under Witch Hunt or something. Dump both subbullets.
11) Pulp mill: probably on Troper Tales, it seems to be a specific instance.
12) German name: this isn't an example, it's Trivia. Maybe make it a description or do something with the German translation?
13) Home owners association: dunno what to do with this, probably fit better in Troper Tales.
Fight smart, not fair.
adopting kitteh
Aaah, interesting points on Witch Hunt (didn't expect us to have that trope) and the german thing. Since I know nothign about the comedian I'll wait for a better informed troper. Ditto for the house loaning or whatever thing. For now I'll reformat the examples that should be kept in the page in a first stage as I move the definitive Troper Tales ones to a Troper Tales page.
EDIT: moved Real Life examples from Not in My Backyard! to TroperTales.Not In My Backyard. Rationale for kept examples:
- Energy generation (nuclear or otherwise): a socially documented phenomena, not tiedc to a troper instance. Reworded the bullet explaining that the social effect is not caused only by this trope.
- Florida inversion: a notable, sourced and discussed inversion, not tied to a troper example.
- Cell towers: same criteria as energy generation.
- Highways: fairly documented phenomena, not tied to a troper example.
- German example: it should go to trivia, but I hesitate to create the page on a sole example.
Rationale for examples that have been moved to Troper Tales expecting more clarification (I think I may have screwed here):
- George Carlin example: shouldn't it go in a comedians section, or is this related to another trope altogether?
- HO As and business associations: not this trope (this is about rejecting negativities while still accepting the positives).
Rationale for elements removed:
- Pedophiles and child molester examples: not this trope (there is no positive externality applicable to letting a child molester live in any place). Fits under Witch Hunt.
edited 6th Apr '11 1:46:11 PM by SilentReverence
Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?
I see the Awesomeness.
I'm pretty sure we have a thing we're supposed to put Comedians under. I think it might be Stand-Up Comedy.
I'd consider moving the German thing into the description and making it a redirect, simply because it's just a different name for the same trope/effect.
edited 6th Apr '11 2:08:39 PM by Deboss
Fight smart, not fair.
I see the Awesomeness.
Bump since I ran across the page again.
Fight smart, not fair.
The Real Life examples are still a third of the total example length and nattery. They really should just be cut.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Think of the mooks!
Agreed - NIMBY may be a real-life phenomenon, but Wikipedia exists in part to catalog that sort of thing.
Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.
Zzzzzzzzzz
The Real Life section now is six lines out of 46 lines for the examples. I trimmed out the sub-bullets and the "inversion".
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
It's still six examples out of eighteen and it keeps growing back every time it's cut down.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Still think we should just cut it and be done with it.
Zzzzzzzzzz
But it's not meeting the usual criteria for Real Life sections being cut: It's not taking over the page or overwhelming the other examples; it's not causing problems; and it's not getting out of control.
edited 6th Oct '11 12:23:27 PM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
It's been repetatively overwhelming the rest of the examples and it keeps growing back like kudzu when cut.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
Well, for now at least. So are we done here?
Zzzzzzzzzz
I added the crosswicks from the related to page. There are now 15 media examples to 5 Real Life examples, and it's 5 lines out of 50.
And in looking through the edit history, there was no appreciable increase in Real Life examples since they were pruned back in April. Some small Natter-spats over adding the "Kennedy was a hypocrite" bit, but nothing major.
It is not "repeatedly overwhelming the rest of the examples," and it has not been "growing back like kudzu".
edited 6th Oct '11 12:51:33 PM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Fair enough. I'll bow to you then and we can lock this up for now.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick
It's longer than most of the rest of the page.
Fight smart, not fair.