General Sonic The Hedgehog thread

In Gamma's story, it's telling that it's only the robot the NPC cast reacts to. Knuckles, Amy, Tails, they're fine talking to them.

I honestly feel like there would be less incoherence if the animals and humans are separated not by dimensions or worlds, but only by like, a traversably short distance.

Like animals in a human city is the equivalent of seeing a California surfer dude in Pennsylvania.

I always figured that different places just had different demographics. For example, hedgehogs are a minority in Station Square, hence why Amy is the only one we see. Conversion of detail also comes into play.

It's hard to describe the characters without using the term "Mobian", but I'd prefer if Sega didn't call Funny Animals by a special name. It's weird to separate them into their own species when they're actually varying animal species. Then you get into the confusion where humans begin and Mobians end. Humans are apes, so maybe they're Mobians too by this logic? If "Mobian" was to be canon, it'd make more sense as an equivalent to "Earthling"; everyone on the planet is a Mobian.

(x4) Colors is when I've seen people cite Sega trying to distance themselves from humans. Generations is when the aesthetic really began to change, with its circular trees and its literal interpretation of Green Hills.

It's weird that they changed so abruptly after Unleashed perfected Earth. They finally got the perfect designs for humans - not too realistic like in 06 or Adventure 2 but not animesque like Adventure - and they made worldbuilding progress with the countries. Sega should have expanded upon what's seen in Unleashed instead of backpedaled. Unleashed was to Sonic what Odyssey is to Mario: the best look at a the series' Fictional Earth.

I don't mind Sonic not having a 100% concrete planet, though. If they stick too close to one then that leaves little wiggle room. I like the idea that their planet is a place where you have realistic islands one place and futuristic cities elsewhere. It's a mishmash ala Mario, not a down-to-earth Earth. They had space colonies in the 1950s for one.

But Sonic's world is Earth right? Just really really odd?

The worst thing about this split Earth thing, besides it being completely thought up on the spot and incompatible with past canon, is that if you delved into it you'd get some cool worldbuilding out of it.

OTOH, you could have, like, dimensional portals that connect the worlds together. Eggman could have come to Sonic's world in order to conquer it because he views the Animal people as less intelligent.

I know it'll never matter and I'm not putting too many braincells into Sonic canon, but it's another missed opportunity.

I think that's what the Archie comics did.

I wouldn't be so sure.

Considering how much backlash the Two Worlds thing has gotten, how Sonic Team likes to bend over backward to please as many people as possible, and how utterly irrelevant it is in the actual games, I honestly think it'll get retconned at some point that humans and Funny Animals have always co-existed, on one world.

Probably with the inevitable SA1 remake.

That, I wouldn't mind.

I dunno. If there's one thing I've come to expect from Sonic Team, it's stubbornly sticking to their conclusions while always taking the wrong lessons from criticism.

It's what led to, say, only Sonic being playable for so long.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Sep 24th 2019 at 10:31:15 AM

x6 Speaking of space stations in 1950s, do you think they are gonna retcon it the 70s seeing how SA 2 is almost 20 years old?

Edited by 123tbones on Sep 25th 2019 at 12:01:37 PM

I don't think a specific date was set. I don't think they care.

Sonic has been fifteen for twenty-eight years.

I guess it's one of those weird plot choices Sonic is known for.

This is when gender-neutral pronouns get weird.

I mean Gamma is a bird with no defined gender, but not necessarily an absent one, and Gamma is also a robot with an unquestionably masculine, robotic voice. I've always heard Gamma referred to as "he." Amy even calls him "Mr. Robot" when escaping the Egg Carrier.

Buuuut technically it's a freaking bird inside of a robot so it doesn't really matter. It's just the quoted sentence that threw me.

Edited by Soble on Sep 25th 2019 at 4:07:59 AM

Ah, but here's a question for you. Is Gamma, in fact, the bird, or — considering the programming and robotic elements, and their impact on the bird's psychology and the mechanical parts' own processing — should Gamma be considered a separate entity or identity that simply uses the bird as a component? Is the programming mere brainwashing that subjugates the original personality, or is the collective combining of the programming and the bird equal to a new person?

Furthermore! If we accept Gamma as an entity distinct from the bird, we must then turn to decide whether 'it', 'they' or 'he' are appropriate descriptors! Perhaps 'Gamma' is a separate entity, but is simply a machine being piloted by the bird, in which case 'it' is indeed most likely the correct answer. But if we accept Gamma as a sentient person, we must gauge whether or not Gamma's organic components or sentienthood mark them as not-an-object, and if so, whether Gamma's gender can be reasonably ascertained and is part of their psychological make-up.

Truly a debate to spice up grammatical circles.

Edited by Lavaeolus on Sep 25th 2019 at 12:58:38 PM

Ah, indeed. If we superimpose a robotic shell upon a creature and subjugate it's will to its new, scientist overlord's most insane wishes, upon which the original creature loses its sentience and is a slave to its newfound directives, I believe it is indeed fair to insist that - yes - Gamma is in fact a separate entity. The bird is a component, and Gamma himself or itself is a separate entity that has become molded from the subdued consciousness of the bird.

But then there's Gamma's programming being overwritten and his/it's seeming connection to the other robots. Which does beg the question of whether the bird itself was heroic initially, or if the programmed identity around the bird's subjugated consciousness itself became heroic independent of the bird itself? Further examination shows that it was the latter.

Because when you think about it that bird might have been a selfish prick. The moment Gamma blew up the bird inside of him/it just flocked off with its family and didn't participate in anymore adventures far as we know. And you can't say "oh it was just a little bird, what did you expect it to do" - Sonic's world is literally saved by a gang of adolescent animals on the regular and some of them even younger. Cream is like an 8-year old rabbit and even she went off to stop Eggman.

That bird has no excuse. Remember Gamma. Not the little Flicky that formed Gamma. That bird is probably crapping on somebody's car in Station Square.

Edited by Soble on Sep 25th 2019 at 5:06:17 AM

Speaking of Cream: On one hand, she's probably the one who has the easiest time fighting Eggman unless Super Sonic needs to show up, but on the other hand it's Cheese that does most of the fighting for her.

And now Cream and chao in general are being phased out and totally forgotten in the main games.

Sonic is likely showing up in Super Monkey Ball Banana Blitz as a playable character

Honestly a bit surprised Sega hasn't tried this type of crossover before as any Sonic character capable of doing a spindash would be a natural fit for the Monkey Ball titles.

It's almost as if SEGA executives are mandating that the developers not even try to implement Chao. I mean, there is no Chao Garden in Sonic '06, but with how much of a glitch-fest that game is right now, no Chao Garden there is probably a blessing becuase it might have played host to more bugs if it had to be put in the game.

Edited by CybranGeneralSturm on Sep 25th 2019 at 6:52:24 AM

(x9) ARK flashbacks always look very mid-20th century but the games are super ambiguous on specific dates, if dates as we know them even apply. Sonic X implies Gerald died in the 2000s according to his journal date. The games rely on Comic-Book Time so no one cares, but I like the retro-futuristic look of the ARK flashbacks. 1950s-esque clothes with futuristic scifi technology is a nice aesthetic.

(x13) The Fleetway comics explained that humans are aliens to Mobians and that Robotnik was an alien invader (though he started out as a benevolent scientist). The new film may also go with that interpretation. I'm not fond of it myself. It's an overdone cliche to have someone from another world invading. I'd rather have Eggman be a rogue human in a world of both humans and animals.

I'm still surprised there hasn't been a Chaos Garden spinoff. That would have been big ten years ago with the DS sims craze.

Edited by Pichu-kun on Sep 25th 2019 at 7:15:57 AM

The chao were supposed to appear in Sonic Boom, but were dropped when things went south.

The world is waiting for Chao Garden For Android.

Sonic Adventure is kind of funny for anyone that's played Skies of Arcadia, because it combines Sega's two favorite things, sound-based item finding, and pet simulation. One of your party members has a shape-shifting pet that becomes her weapon that morphs into stronger forms if you can feed it crystals. Which you find by using a variation on the Knuckles radar. And there's even a secondary system where you look for sky fish via sound.

x7: At least Cream has been used in the IWD comic, and some of the spinoffs. Though why she wasn't in Team Sonic Racing still baffles me. At least with her and Blaze, the comic gave a simple explanation for Forces. Unless they were really worried that Cream and Charmy being eight year olds driving cars wasn't acceptable (even though Tails is eight). Wish Espio was playable at least, a ninja car would be AWESOME. At least with Silver, Blaze, and Vector being on the same team, it makes some sense since Espio and Silver worked together in Sonic Rivals 2 and Vector hired Espio since he was suspect-full of Silver stealing the chao

I've been reading random info on Sonic and apparently Maria has an actual medical condition. In Japan, NIDS is described as "Primary immunodeficiency", which is a real thing referring to a group of disorders. That helps clear up what NIDS is since it's so vague in canon. It's not just "basically AIDS" like I thought.

Maria's Sonic Channel bio also confirms she was born this way. I've seen a lot of fan-works where she gained NIDS as a child. This is backed up by the original Japanese guide saying she has a "hereditary immune deficiency syndrome" (or something that roughly translates to that).

I never noticed it, but Maria having NIDS is apparently not referenced in the actual games. It is in X but not Adventure 2 or Shadow the Hedgehog. That seems like a large plot point for the games to ignore. If a remake comes out, they need to add that info in.

Edited by Pichu-kun on Sep 25th 2019 at 8:05:22 AM

It's not exactly important to the story...per se.

Not the way it plays out.

It doesnt really matter. She was sick. She was killed before the illness could take her. That's what relevant