Fits in Heavy's pocket!
I'm (genuinely, I didn't understand most of that big post on the other page tbh) confused. When were Trans people mentioned?
The last thing you hear before an unstoppable juggernaut bisects you with a minigun.
What, me worry?
Something I've been thinking about: when it comes to an atheist's (or any non-Christian really) thoughts on prayer. They seem to get offended by that when you pray for them. Lack of belief aside, I hear them saying how it makes them feel like they can't do anything by themselves. Which I don't understand that. Are they really that insecure with themselves? The way I see it, even if they don't believe in God, isn't praying a form of well-wishing? Believe in God or not, you do want them to pull through with their struggles in life. That's how I see it.
Fits in Heavy's pocket!
I dunno, I've met a lot of non-Christians who at least understand and appreciate the sentiment, even if they don't believe it has an effect. Depends on the person.
The last thing you hear before an unstoppable juggernaut bisects you with a minigun.
Collector Of Fine Oddities
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Coming from the South, saying you'll pray for someone is about on the same level as a vile curse with the proper tone. It's often used in a condescending and sarcastic manner to offend and humiliate the other person, especially in a public setting.
Probably implying the other person is an enemy as in pray for your enemies. People don't generally think they are the jerk, so...
I think it can be a matter of, feeling like it's their being involved in your beliefs even if they don't want to. But yeah it can have a condescending tone to. I don't know how I'd feel if a Pagan was to involve me indirectly like that, I don't think I'd mind but Pagans are less common than Christians.
nor there
Personal experience and reading tells me that, on average, there's more of a "meh, okay" feeling towards being told that they're being prayed for. The "average" in this case being made of mostly more extreme sentiments with some moderate feelings.
If I were to guess, I'd make two guesses: first, the backlash might be more from (seeming) overuse of that as a response or parting phrase to other things ; second, one can say anything good or true and then get people to go against it by the sheer repulsiveness of the person/personality saying those things. The former seems more prevalent than the later, but the later can be more powerful even in smaller instances.
In my case, it's like how I'm annoyed at being told to 'take care of yourself first' or 'stay healthy for yourself' more and more often nowadays (even before the pandemic), or putting a smiley emoticon text at the end of a declaration. These admittedly have more to do with bad but very memorable experiences that turned them into minor(?) triggers for me.
I'm going to try something this lent season.
I'm going to try to bring about some content I've found that talks about the some aspects of Christianity, namely its history, a perspective of the Bible, and maybe some other things on occasion.
But before that, A Disclaimer.
To give a preview of the things I'm going to post, here's the links for two of the major sources I'll post from.
- Ryan Reeves
- Ted Sherman (the controversial source I went on about)
- Fall 2019 ENGL 2020 Bible as Literature
- (the videos aren't about being Orthodox, though he does give that perspective at times)
- Fall 2019 ENGL 2020 Bible as Literature
And I'll likely put some things from some other sources.
Now what I'm hoping to do with this is to get some more activity in this thread. I'm aware that some/many of the things in these might be controversial to many here. But I request that, at least, if you do comment on these (here on this thread, not in the videos themselves (unless you want to and can)), then please engage in the content of these videos beyond just "I disagree witht the politics and political views displayed here". The only things I have that come close to matching the overall leanings of this thread (and site as whole) are some editorial and magazine-ish sites. And those are texts, so they don't fit in with what I'm going for. Also they're mostly Catholic.
I'll likely be posting either double posts or time-marked edits to the last post I made.
Also the church history set is really long and I might not get to posting all of it. Maybe.
Alsoso the stuff I post can likely reach 1hr+ in total length, so if you ignore this even just for that reason alone, then I entirely understand.
Having said all of that, and in relation to it, I'll start with this:
From Bishop Robert Barron:
And then I'll see if I can keep this up for 40 days.
Edited by Ikiniks on Feb 20th 2021 at 11:09:12 AM
but maybe somewhere
nor there
Gonna do this as a hybrid of double-post and post update. Namely, double-post first and then edit that post provided nothing's there to prevent a triple post.
So these first few are just primers for what's to follow, but they do contain interesting discussions on things in regards to what to at least take into account before heading into discussing...
From Ryan Reeves:
Plato, Aristotle, and Stoicism
...the context of what Christianity was working with in its inception, namely the culture of the dominant Mediterranean cultures at the time. and...
From Ted Sherman:
...the formation of the Bible as it is "now" and some things to take into account when considering some things.
Do I also think his voice takes some used to? Yes.
This might be the longest set in a day, but they get a lot of things out of the way.
...and considering the length of this, I might think of just using plain links instead of embeds.
Yup. Going with plain links.
These videos cover the period just after the apostles.
From Ryan Reeves:
Christian Apologists and Early Heresies
And by now many of you should be aware of how much mythology and unhistorical claims many people who try to argue against Christianity, or any religion for that matter, have had to buy into in order to support their arguments. Especially as archeological finds keep having this bizarre tendency to support at the very least, the locations and people mentioned in either Testament. No one, few, or many invented Jesus. Jesus found us and was found by us in turn. And no amount of abused authority and credibility granted by any doctorate or PhD changes that.
Gnosticism and the Early Church
Rome and the Third Century Crisis
... and things get even rougher, until suddenly...
Edited by Ikiniks on Feb 20th 2021 at 11:09:48 AM
but maybe somewhere
What, me worry?
Curious about something. On a Discord chat, someone I know got into a bit of a debate over evolution (and those people are non-Christians) and argued Christians can believe in evolution. The person who argued with them said they believed in micro-evolution, as in forms evolving over time, but doesn't believe we evolved from apes. I definitely don't believe we used to be monkeys. But I am curious if any one here who does and believes in God too
I believe in both. And not just micro-evolution. God had a whole understanding of things. I admit it's pretty niche to not believe in it, like it's pretty accepted among Catholics and I think mainline Protestants (but I've never been brave enough to actually go, for all I was entranced by the promise of the rainbows and sign of Affirmation at the United Church I went for something else, of course now the point is pretty moot since pandemic).
Edited by phantom1 on Feb 20th 2021 at 4:25:23 AM
Collector Of Fine Oddities
"Micro-evolution" as a standalone concept is a pretty nonsensical copout in my opinion and falls apart under any sort of scrutiny. The proponents simply use observable instances of evolution but then suddenly draw a big red line at whatever point thy start to feel uncomfortable at. Usually at whatever point their particular flavour of creationism starts at. I had numerous headaches with a college professor who believed in it and his brand of "catastrophism" to ty to insist that the earth was only 4,000 years old while he himself taught introductory geology, probably one of the biggest sledgehammers against his own beliefs.
Young Earth Creationism in a Geology professor (or any science professor really) sounds like an impressive form of cognitive dissonance.
nor there
Unfortunately, that kind of dissonance might not be uncommon for uni teachers, religious or not. At the very least, if they can keep it out of their actual lessons, then it might be fine, even if knowing their (dis)beliefs requires a grain of salt to be taken with their words. But from what y'all describe, they were going into a curriculum that's contrary to the field they teach, full revisionist pseudo-science.
That said, the vast majority of religious people I've met and I do believe in un-modified, non-reductionist evolution .
Speaking of college-level things... This set of videos cover Constantine and his successors and the early parts of Genesis.
Much as Constantine gets maligned for his effect on the development of Christianity's place in society and politics... I can't really pin down that much blame on him. As much as he can be characterized as very imperfect and often immoral man in the highest position of power in his realm, I'm not seeing legalizing a religion as a tremendous misuse of his authority. I can say at least, that maybe he set a less than ideal precedent for political rulers interacting with theological matters. I can criticize that. All in all, his interaction with the early Church hierarchy seems more like,
The Byzantine Christian Empire
... But his descendants and successors on the other hand, can be blamed for shoving Christianity onto the populace. One of them can even be blamed for making Paganism look pretty bad even as he tried to bring it back.
From Ted Sherman:
It's never not of boggling to me how much precise wording really matters when talking about this kind of thing, especially in when it comes to saying who did what at what did they do. I remember John Lennox gave a speech on interpreting the creation days..
Maybe I'll include that Lennox speech in the next part.
Edited by Ikiniks on Feb 20th 2021 at 12:09:39 PM
but maybe somewhere
so i made a new avatar
I'm convinced the only reason God keeps us around is because of the Sunk Cost Fallacy.
To pity someone is to tell them "I feel bad about being better than you."
Yeah most other Christians I know do, too. Believe in evolution.
Are you ok Physical Stamina or just annoyed at something?
Edited by phantom1 on Feb 21st 2021 at 10:06:30 AM
so i made a new avatar
Kinda annoyed with everything. I'm at the point where I just wanna stop caring.
Oh that's a very difficult place to be in.
nor there
That feeling is familiar. If you would take it, I'd like to give you my condolences. The past few years have not been demonstrating humanity's collective... "maturity". If I have been part of that annoyance, then I also offer my apologies and an ear to any criticism you give.
If you wish to, I think this thread would be willing to hear out what has led you to this point, either by DMs to any member here or by a post here in (semi?) public, and we'll give out any aide if you will have it. For now, I recommend a retreat into various media or activities that you know will not irritate you. It can help a little when the anger starts boiling out.
Also I'd like to affirm that the sunk cost fallacy might not apply to one who outpaces omnipresence and overpowers omnipotence. Jesus knows what he got back up for.
This set of videos deals with how the first ~500 years of the Church tries to hash things out about how to talk about its doctrines.
From Ryan Reeves:
Creeds and Councils: What are they?
Early Church and Trinity: Father and Son
"It was already there, but this is the first time it really had to be expressed verbally and written down.[sic]" I think this tiny little facet of history really needs to be hammered home. It's a simple concept, but also surprisingly hard to grasp fully, even as it demonstrates itself today in an age where its popular and easy to write first then attempt to make it a reality.
Disputes on Christ: Nestorius and Cyril
"Going to the extreme sides or the extreme center on any issue tend to be bad ideas when defending anything.[sic]" Another concept that feels novel due to under-use, despite its continued self-demonstration.
Debates never really changed, huh. Just imagine them in suits, on a semi-minimalist, modern stage, pacing around as they use big words that get cheered on for their bigness. I will say though that a point in favor of yesterday is that, AFAIS, there's less of a sense of "it's correct because it eases my preconceptions and sensations" going around. Seemingly.
... And lot of these controversies are still around today.
Edited by Ikiniks on Feb 25th 2021 at 10:26:35 AM
but maybe somewhere
nor there
This set of videos deals with some of the biggest names from before the middle ages and the last parts of Genesis
From Ryan Reeves:
Perhaps it can be said that maybe there are too many Jeromes and not enough Ambroses in the Church today. That said, I do feel Jerome at times.
And here he is. The big man of pre-medieval, post-Apostolic Christian thinking. We're not gonna feel great with a lot of the things he says, and nowadays we may feel the need to go against it, but at least a lot of the rationale behind it can still be observed as being not entirely and utterly un-true even today. Probably. Also that life narrative probably feels like something you've heard of from people who have no idea who Augustine even is. Almost stereotypically familiar.
From Ted Sherman:
The naratives of Jacob/Israel and Joseph. Aaand also the reason why there were that many Israelites in Egypt come the next book.
From John Lennox:
Seven Days That Divide the World
That John Lennox video about the creation narrative.
This set of videos is about the foundations of the medieval era, mostly in regards to the more Northern and Western parts of Europe.
From Ryan Reeves:
Brunhilde stuck around for quite a bit in Germanic cultural memory, didn't she?
Remember that whole entangling of Church and state that really sends people into fits? The one that kinda really got going immediately after Constantine? Yeah about that...
Alfred the Great & the Anglo Saxons
That point in time when one can probably say with complete lack of irony or inaccuracy, "Spain ain't European (anymore)."
This set of videos deals with the Crusades and the people who fought in them, and the familiar part of Exodus.
From Ryan Reeves:
Knights and Chivalry
Well hey, these horse warriors didn't need two or more horses at once to use. Also, "Why did they make/do it like this!?" "Because what it was trying to fix, whether or not it did fix it, was that much worse." But then came...
... yup. Do I wish that the whole, "we can't really stop or enforce against this through the state, so we'll find better ways to provide our alternatives that aren't just scolding and finger wagging" thing was applied to more than just this nowadays? Yes.
From Ted Sherman:
I think it should be at this point that a sense of cause and effect really starts to either become clear and/or really build up.
This set of videos deals with the outline of medieval life along with some major events and the Book of Judges.
From Ryan Reeves:
Medieval Life, Death, and Marriage
Tilling's that thing where you essentially fluff up the ground to make it easier for plants to grow, right? Also, I guess this just shows how much of a forgotten art charioteering was.
...huh.
From Ted Sherman:
This is where the professor's political leanings become pretty clear, so uh, keep that in mind.
Anyways, Judges, I.E. A biblical demonstration of why people bothered to argue against decentralized human-led governments in that age. It just keeps happening.
This set of videos deals with the major breakups and turmoils in the church hierarchy and ethe establishment of ancient Israeli Monarchy.
From Ryan Reeves:
I'd like to go on record to say that I personally like the Orthodox patriarch's garments very much.
...I wonder if Orthodox adherents looked at this and the Avignon Papacy and thought, "Saw this coming a a mile away."
Hey look, it's that one French Girl from FGO who looks like that Brittish girl and that Italian girl from the same game! But why is she Real Life parody of her brunette and more fully armored?
From Ted Sherman:
The period after Judges, I.E. A biblical argument and demonstration of why centralized human-led governments aren't the best thing.
Edited by Ikiniks on Feb 27th 2021 at 4:50:10 AM
but maybe somewhere
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
Keep up the good works, Ikinks, that takes some dedications.
As for me, I just learned that the Lent has already started ten days ago. Seems like a pattern for me...
I'm going to keep things simple and feasible, reducing both numbers of pleasures and the intensity of their restriction.
I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
nor there
Thank you. May I suggest beginning some new good and continuous thing that adds to your day? If it's kept up, it might edge out the things you want/need to give up anyways.
But in any case, May you meet your Lent goals.
This set of videos deals with the context behind the development of Christian philosophy.
From Ryan Reeves:
Boethius and Christian Philosophy
The Christian Job, though this time he dies and his family doesn't.
Oh. Oooooh. This headache of a debate. Of course it's that old.
Anselm on God: the Ontological Argument
I go cross eyed at arguments that try to counter things like this. This might not fly today, and it almost didn't fly in its day, but I'd say it's a pretty good start.
A lot of this however, probably will probably fly very well today. But yeah, the honor thing is really alien to a lot of the internet-going populace nowadays (meybe), and you're unlikely to get an even-handed explanation on it.
Monkhood falling off the deep end and the belt-tightening in response.
This is also the point where one can notice that there's a slight anachronicness in the order of Mr. Reeves's videos, usually jumping back whenever a major topic category comes up.
From Brother Casey:
How Did Jesus' Death Save Us From Sins?
A supplement to the second Abelard video and a demonstration of that rationalist/obscurantist tension.
nor there
day 12 - 2/28
ENGL 2020 Bible and Lit F19 8and 9
Are any here aware of how much of a complete farce "the problem of evil" is? Especially in the Abrahamic context?
Because it is a farce.
Whether or not it is intended back in its formulation, the way it is used now essentially demands that, for even the slightest moment, that humanity is the arbiter an determiner of justice, right, wrong, and all that is good in the world by its will and reason.
So the we are asked to take a few moments to believe in the most unintelligent, mean-spirited, and short-sighted wannabe-gods to ever have anything called existence in the presence of sapient entities.
Ourselves.
We are not all knowing. In our quest to know, it must be known that we do not know all. We do not have all circumstances and contexts in our heads.
And we do not deserve that, for if we had that knowledge, we would misuse it and then pass it off as "reason".
Any Objective morality without consideration for things outside and beyond humanity is fragile and fallible, merely a projection of petty wants and precariously proclaimed needs that are repeatedly enforced by a self-righteous "will".
Consider this then: an all-knowing one will be considering things that aren't in the understanding of beings that still feel a need to seek knowledge (yet still proclaim that what they currently have is all there surely is). An all-powerful one who is also all-knowing will know to apply those capabilities in ways those limited in real power cannot act on. An all-present one who is all-knowing and all-powerful will always be there to do what they know unlike those that are limited in existence.
All of that taken in then, there is no good reason to truly consider why things don't go our way. Because our way is a delusion of correctness that accuses others of being wrong based on insufficient anythings that are necessary to determine what is really right. Because for God to obey humanity is to misuse presence, power, and knowledge. Good will not stop being Good just because something that isn't Good says otherwise.
And God is Good. He is the higher standard to which all else is judged, and He is only beholden to himself. He has not erred. He has committed no crimes against anyone or many, least of all humanity. He has not neglected it. He has not underestimated it.
In the Abrahamic context then, the answer to that "problem" is: God knows better.
It is not all of the information that we want. It is not the extensive explanation that is satisfying to the mind or comforting to the heart. It is the correct answer, and the correct answer is never a guarantee of comfort or satisfaction. It is right, and nothing humanity wants will matter in light of that.
And one correct way to act on that answer is to wonder why what we "think" is right, what we "understand" as the better course of action, what we "know" should be/have been done and ask
why we are wrong
and God is right.
...
...also, Job has alright friends, even if they're kinda persumptuous knuckleheads.
This set of videos deals with the rest of pre-reformation non-Orthodox Christian philosohy and the subsequent responses to it afterwards. Before the reformation.
day 14 - 3/1
The big name of Catholic philosophy that isn't Augustine or in the Bible.
... In hindsight, all this "will" talk really didn't go in a good direction.
The razor. Which even he knew/realized wasn't supposed to be an all purpose, infallible tool.
And would you look at that. All three of these figures pretty much completely and utterly dismantle and savage that rant I made in that last day, even as they essentially debate each other. I think.
Ain't it grand how these video sets actually sync up? I'm not even planning these that much, since I'm watching these as I post them. Because these ain't short videos and I'm not elephantine in my memory.
Let me go on record that this whole thing was a massive screw-up on the part of the church organization, and that I actually do agree with a lot of the stances Mr. Hus took. Namely the whole charging money for indulgences (any kind of them in general) and the issue of the wine in the Eucharist. I mean, I don't even like wine or booze of any kind, but if Jesus brings them together in that major event while still naming them separately, then I'm pretty sure it's not a good idea to withhold any part of the like that, regardless of the rationale behind it. Especially with the rationales given here. It just seems like a bad idea in principle.
Well here it is, the seeds of a grand wave of stupid that will soon follow... which at this part of history, I'm not all that against and I'm not really disagreeing with it either. IIRC, Tommy was the most Christian ethics that we got thus far.
This set of videos deals with the immediate background of the Reformation and parts of Psalms.
From Ryan Reeves:
The Importance of the Reformation
Remember folks, it is colonial times now.
Late Medieval Background to the Reformation
The screw-ups of the clerical hierarchy have kinda piled up pretty high at this point and it's about to tip over catastrophically.
As a side note, I wasn't originally thinking of including this playlist buuuuuut I kinda went through the first part pretty quickly. At this point, net video length per day will likely vary a lot more.
From Ted Sherman:
ENGL 2020 Bible and Lit F19 10
This is the part where the "literature" part really comes out, since explanations of the psalms require a greater focus on the language used and the context behind it. They are songs.
This set of videos covers the Part of Martin Luther's life before that event.
From Ryan Reeves:
Late medieval upper-middle class parenting.
Martin Luther and the Thunderstorm
This is the kind of thing where I'm very willing to take the side of official doctorine over popular conceptions, and encourage the disctinction between them.
Martin Luther's Life as a Monk
I don't think I've actually met many of these kinds of proffessors, but I wasn't in one of those books-up-the-wazoo degrees.
Martin Luther and Scholasticism
Sometimes, you definitely do believe in something but you start to ask, "What do I believe in in relation to this?"
Edited by Ikiniks on Mar 4th 2021 at 6:08:34 AM
but maybe somewhere
I just want to say this to my comrades.
Unlike what certain kinds of people will claim, you are not worthless, stupid, or an impediment to the development of the world.
You have a proud, rich heritage of two millennia which spans the globe.
The Church tilled the soil for modern science. It nurtured the arts. It saved lives and continues to do so. It has no shortage of inventors and doctors who revolutionized their fields; rebels and heroes who wouldn’t back down.
A blind eye is turned to such stories in favor of myths about how we caused the Middle Ages and are responsible for all the deaths and wars since that Shavuot morning.
Know your history and remember, my comrades... a day will come when you’ll be free.
Seriously, a lot of medieval based fantasy as well would be written differently if they actually read what the actual medieval ages was like.
As for current day, regardless of their faith, I believe they're more emotionally intelligent than parents of previous generations. Systematically the abuse likely won't be passed on because the literature on abuse is much more robust these days.
As for "redefining terms" sorry but Trans Rights are Human Rights. Deal with it :).
GIVE ME YOUR FACE