Essential Anime: Proposed Additions

There has been recent interest in making changes to the Essential Anime page, and because no one seems to visit the discussion page it seems better to have a thread on it here in the anime forum. And because I don't want to make a new thread every time the subject comes up I am creating a single thread to discuss proposed additions.

General Rules for proposals:

The purpose of Essential Anime is to highlight trendsetters in Anime, anime of historical note, and series that epitomize particular genres. Specifically we are looking for the Trope Maker, Trope Codifier, and Deconstructions that effect future anime in that genre.

Entries are divided by genre and sub-genre, and presented in chronological order by date of first airing in Japan.

So don't propose an anime because it is "good", "the best ever", "extremely popular", "bestseller", "made tons of money", or "I really liked it".

That's not what the list is.

A strong defense of a proposed addition is to identify how it has influenced later anime. Either by codifying a definable subgenre, or by creating new variations on old tropes, that sort of thing.

As a visual aid consider the adjacent chart showing the path for development of the Mecha Genre.

Basically we are looking for splits, generally the Trope Codifier, when a definable and recognizable sub-genre is created. Or we are looking for shifts, major changes in the way the genre is handled, (usually cause by Deconstructions, Reconstructions, and occasionally a Genre Throwback).

You will notice the current shows listed as "Essential" under the Mecha Genre are all shows that either caused a split or a shift in the adjacent chart.

I have also included Gurren Lagann and Code Geass on the chart, notice that while these are popular, notable anime, they have not (yet) been seen to cause a recognizable split or shift in their respective genre. That is why they are currently not on the Essential Anime page. (This is not to exclude those anime from being proposed for the page in the future- just that you will need to show how they caused some kind of shift or split in the genre).

Go look at the Essential Anime page for more examples.

edited 17th Jan '11 8:32:46 PM by Sackett

One Piece was proposed as an addition by The Pope

See the thread on it here.

To sum up, the outcome was a consensus that One Piece, while notable as the bestselling book ever in Japan, was simply not a trendsetter or codifier in it's genre. So it is not qualified for the Essential Anime page.

Lord Aaronus has proposed a new genre:

Proposed new category: Widget Series (since anime is such a mainstream thing now, it's the ones that can still be considered weird by those standards that still stand out)

Examples in chrono order:

• Ge Ge Ge No Kitaro (the subject matter, about Japanese things that go bump in the night, has pretty much ensured widgetness)
• Akazukin Chacha (can be considered a gateway Widget by way of getting licenced)
• FLCL (when Widget goes Beyond The Impossible)
• Keroro Gunsou (successfully making Widget mainstream, coming full circle)

Lord Aaronus has added this under the Fantasy Genre (which was mostly empty because during YKTTW nobody know anything about the subject).

Trope Codifier: Record Of Lodoss War, the Most Triumphant Example of cross-cultural osmosis for integrating all the best known Western fantasy tropes in an anime.

What about Essential Manga?

I think Love Hina probably deserves a spot under the harem genre. Tenchi Muyo may have done it both earlier and better, but Love Hina is the one that really set the ball rolling for whatever reason.

edited 14th Jan '11 8:33:03 PM by Arha

It seems like a page we shouldn't really have at all. We don't have an "Essential" page for anything else.

That might be a sign that those pages should be created rather than this one deleted.

My feelings on the matter is that I'm not sure if we should have a Widget Series genre. I mean, almost all anime is considered weird already.

If we did create it I'd identify Ge Ge Ge No Kitaro as the Trope Maker I guess, and FLCL as the Trope Codifier.

As for the addition to the Fantasy genre I'm fine with it, but then I don't know much about that genre. I guess the question is: Where there any earlier anime that used traditional Western/Tolkien/D&D type fantasy motifs? (That would be the trope makers). And second, was there an earlier anime that used traditional fantasy motifs in the same fashion, leading to other anime using it that way too? (trope codifier)

Record Of Lodoss War would probably be the go to series for that one.

Love Hina was the reason why I asked on Essential Manga.

edited 14th Jan '11 8:37:03 PM by Raso

That might be a sign that those pages should be created rather than this one deleted.

The idea of trying to get knowledgeable people to agree on an Essential Literature list... Especially around here, most people probably haven't even heard of most of the members of some professional candidates.

^ No doubt, which is why such a page doesn't exist. Plus length issues. But the difficulty in making an essential literature or films list does not mean that such pages serve no purpose if they can be controlled.

There was a YKTTW made for Essential [...]

But it never went anywhere.

It seemed that Eddie was okay with an Essential page for other media if they focus on things like Trope Maker and Trope Codifier rather than more subjective opinions. The main difficulty is that it is a huge undertaking. It took me months to launch the redrafted Essential Anime page, and the amount of work was such that I began dreading visiting the wiki. Even so I ended by launching it without a full completion. And that was redrafting a page that already had most of the needed information. I can't imagine drafting one from scratch.

As for Love Hina, I'm afraid it just isn't a trope maker or even a codifier. You can't even say it popularized the trope since it's popularity is probably why Love Hina was made. Plus Love Hina's plot comes from Maison Ikkoku. It's more that Love Hina took several good elements from several areas and made a decent story out of it. It was a big hit that spawned imitators, except Love Hina was an imitation itself. It would almost be a Genre Throwback, except that the genre hadn't died out.

Tenchi Muyo was definitely the harem anime trope codifier. (It was also hugely popular - even more so than Love Hina - witness the 3 different continuities, plus several movies, and a couple spin-offs).

edited 14th Jan '11 8:47:35 PM by Sackett

But did Tenchi Muyo really set the way the harem dynamics played out or the setup itself? I am not saying it should be cut out in favor of Love Hina, but Love Hina did lead to more stories built in that manner. While that may not be a positive change, and the story itself may not be particularly novel, I think it does merit a place.

Absolutely Tenchi Muyo established the harem dynamics.

The indecision (see Tenchi Solution), the way some of the harem members are in open pursuit, the way others are in denial over their own feelings. The tricking of the male lead into "dates". The demands for "fairness" in the amount of attention he give each one. The it's Not What It Looks Like situations.

It's all there. Especially once you get to the Tenchi Universe continuity. Tenchi in Tokyo was pretty much nothing except harem antic (which was why it sucked).

In fact Love Hina is less harem then Tenchi Muyo because there is a set heroine in Naru that we know has the inside track for the hero.

And that's not new either, that goes back at least as far as Ranma 1/2.

Look, I have a fond spot for Love Hina myslef since it was one of the early anime I watched, but it just isn't codifying anything. It's a (well done) imitation that then spawned even more (poorer) imitations because it was successful.

edited 14th Jan '11 8:59:29 PM by Sackett

But lots of harems do give you one girl that is obviously the real heroine. Ai Yori Aoshi did, Rosario To Vampire does and likely more, only I can't really of many harem stuff I've actually read or watched at the moment. And you said yourself that Love Hina was responsible for lots of clones, meaning it did have an effect.

Also, if it has an effect, and it's such a famous example of what a harem series is, why would we not include it?

edited 14th Jan '11 9:01:43 PM by Arha

Mobile Suit Gundam absolutely, which created the real-robot sub genre. It also named and codified several tropes such as Gundam Jack, Colony Drop, Minovsky Particle, Bright Slap, and Char Clone.

edited 16th Jan '11 1:12:21 AM by CommandoDude

This... but however there is some YMMV on if the first series aged well enough to actually recommend. (the movies did though)

edited 16th Jan '11 1:12:29 AM by Raso

Actually what about Haruhi, since this is being handled by genre, Haruhi is the mother of Gender Bending, coul it get a mention becuase of that.

^^ It's not about what you would actually recommend to people.

^ No.

Nailing Haruhi to a Genre is all but impossible... and Haruhi's Gender Bending is entirely Fanon.

well its something that "you really should watch" which I really cant say on the first series due to so many problems that even the author hates. The movies on the other hand pretty much distill all of what is good about the series while removing the crap. An overview of the 21 different series might work.

edited 16th Jan '11 1:29:35 AM by Raso

How is it fanon? while it is episodic(with almost every episode being a different gender) you get one episode of Mystery follow by an slice of life and then one with Mecha elements(Day of sagitarious), there is of everything to pick, and while the author has never said "oh yeah i wanted to mix different genders" its really easy to reach that conclusion.

Edit:Oh shit its Genre Bending, well its 3:39 am so, i should probably go to sleep now.

edited 16th Jan '11 1:40:15 AM by shark33

Gender Bending was never in the main series that was made on the internet [1].

Now if you are talking about Genre-Busting that is another story.

I think that in order to count Haruhi you would have to give reasons other than it being good or popular. How has it influenced works that come after it?

Its certainly one of the series that started to shove Moe Blob into the forefront. Aside from the Genre-Busting, Mind Screw s and such it doesn't do anything really super unique... It is one of my all time fav series (s1) though.

edited 16th Jan '11 2:32:07 AM by Raso