Tom Clancy

I watched the first Jack Ryan movie, "The Hunt for Red October" earlier on, and was struck by two things. The first one was how good it still was, the second by how many changes there were from the book, which is still one of Tom Clancy's best, if not the best.

Yeah, I still pop Hunt in the DVD player every now and then. I would've preferred a little more of the book to make it in, but I can more or less understand the cuts that were made. Even though it made the US look better as it was filmed, I wouldn't have minded the UK branch of the plot being made little more than a token dialogue mention (IIRC only the source of the pics were mentioned), but overall I think the movie was a pretty faithful adaptation of the novel's spirit.

The following movies... less so.

The fact that The Cardinal of the Kremlin never got an adaptation is a travesty.

Not dramatic enough, I think. The A-plot lacks the Bond-esque extravagance of The Hunt for Red October and Clear and Present Danger. The real drama is the B-plot with the laser bases, and Ryan isn't a part of that. You can't have a major Hollywood action film without your main character being a part of the big battle somehow.

Cardinal has a bunch of main protagonists: Ryan, Bondarenko, Gregory, Clark, and possibly the Archer, with none of them being explicitly evil. Bondarenko is at best a patriot for his country and at worst a Punch-Clock Villain. Hard to make that work in an AAA film.

You'd really have to sell it as a spy vs. spy game with Ryan on the one hand and Gerasimov on the other.

edited 30th Apr '13 11:28:02 AM by Fighteer

I think that's a fairly YMMV matter - personally, I found the A-plot with Filitov much more enjoyable than Bondarenko, despite his badassery.

Something I also thought would be nice would be a present-day adaptation of Clear, maybe set in Mexico instead of Columbia. With a competent screenwriter and director, you could present a lot of questions about US policy without doing the bloody bleedin obvious trick of setting the film in Qurac.

Out of curiosity, has anyone read Threat Vector, the latest one in the Ryanverse series?

The previous one, Locked On, wasn't complete shit, but it didn't exactly encourage me to go and find Vector to read it, either.

'Fraid not.

You could try the Amazon reviews?

On a related note: is it just me, or does Clancy give arguments that don't agree with his position a lot more of a fair hearing in his earlier books? I mean, I didn't so much mind the way he uses the books to promote conservative positions early on, because he usually took the time to articulate the counterpoints, and maybe even give them a sympathetic character (like the pirate's lawyer in Clear and Present Danger, who makes the anti-death penalty case) for emphasis. He even gives Ding Chavez an internal monologue about how he could have ended up a Cartel shooter due to his poverty, and takes the time to have the Escobar-figure note that legalizing drugs would put people like him out of business. Beginning with Debt of Honor (which is, imho, by far his weakest), he begins just dismissing people who disagree with him out of hand, especially when Ryan becomes President.

edited 19th May '13 6:24:38 PM by Achaemenid

You aren't the only one who noticed. It may have had something to do with Protection from Editors; as Clancy got big, he simply decided that he didn't need to pull punches where his political viewpoints were concerned. I will offer that many of Ryan's opponents are shown to be bad by virtue of being politicians, not liberals: for example, Kealty's major character flaw is that he views political power as his birthright, not something given to him by the people. Of major recent Presidential candidates, the one who most closely fits that description is Mitt Romney.

Still, I admit to being turned off by some of his proselytizing in the later books.

Isn't Ed Kealty meant to be Ted Kennedy? I do recall Van Damm noting that Kealty has no principles at all. Is it ever specified which party Roger Durling belongs to? He was Fowler's veep, and Fowler is, I believe, meant to be a Democrat, given his (few) stated political positions (anti-death penalty in all cases).

Which does, somewhat, throw Ryan's rather conservative policies post-attack into an unintentionally unsympathetic light.

edited 21st May '13 5:29:18 AM by Achaemenid

Yep. Ed Kealty is Ted Kennedy with the serial numbers filed off. I don't object to his portrayal in the books, as Kealty is exactly the same sort of sleekit, sly, sanctimonious bastard that I consider Ted Kennedy to have been in real life.

And no, I don't despise the man because he was a "liberal". That's far too easy.

Let's not forget that the president before Fowler — a Republican — was the one who ordered the attack on the Columbian drug cartel in Clear and Present Danger, and with whom Ryan struck a deal to throw the next election in exchange for not having the scandal made public. Also, Arnie Van Damm, the White House chief of staff under Fowler, Durling, and Ryan, is a staunch liberal whom Ryan greatly respects.

edited 21st May '13 6:55:08 AM by Fighteer

I like Van Damm. I prefer Greer. Mainly because he is such a good character and also because he was played by Darth Fucking Vader in the films. In the sayings of my old work, I would share a slit trench with the guy, whereas I wouldn't piss on Kealty if he was on fire.

Oh, it is certainly more even handed. It's just in Executive Orders Clancy portrays the press and Kealty as being eeevil for asking Ryan hard questions, but in all fairness Ryan implements some pretty conservative reforms and policies (flat tax, his Roe v Wade comments) despite being VP of a Democrat administration!

By the way, there is a new Jack Ryan film starring Chris Pine in the works, tentatively titled Moscow. Some details here.

I am not hopeful. I'd always hoped for a bid budget and spiritually faithful adaptation of Clear, maybe set in the present day.

edited 23rd May '13 1:56:48 AM by Achaemenid

So, it's Jack Ryan in Name Only, with the man who has single-handedly drained any interest I had in the Star Trek reboots as the star?

Think I will pass, ta muchly.

While I wouldn't say Pine drained any interest in ST, he's definitely one of the weaker points of the Abrams reboot, which in and of itself leaves me somewhat less than thrilled.

Also, the test screening was apparently several months ago, according to one comment, while the article first came out years ago. Not exactly encouraging.

So it's shit then.

Aw, Clancy died today, at 66. I can't find any article links but it's a headline on CNN.

Edit: The BBC has a placeholder story.

edited 2nd Oct '13 7:44:03 AM by Fighteer

Just saw that. RIP.

At least he'll still be able to write books...

CNN now has a story up. The fifth picture in the slideshow features Tom Clancy Is About To Shoot You for anyone who wants an extra trope in their media coverage.

~Raises her canteen~

Thanks for the good books Mr. Clancy!

This is horrible news. 66 is no age to die in this day and age. He must have had some underlying health issues.

Rest in peace, Mister Clancy. Thanks for the books.

RIP. Red Storm Rising was one of the best thrillers I've ever read, it just struck a chord with me. I hope his family is doing okay. He brightened the lives of a lot of people.

I might finally start Cardinal of the Kremlin in his memory. I didn't enjoy Patriot Games, but Rainbow Six and The Hunt for Red October were amazing. Might just reread RSR and THFRO, since they were so much fun to read.

Damn... Only 66.

I remember randomly picking up Patriot Games at the school library. I loved that book.

Rest in peace.

The Ryan Doctrine is over.

Kinda tangential to this thread, but since it was mentioned I started a thread over in the Live Action Film forum about Jack Ryan: Shadow Recruit, here, which I just got back from seeing a little bit ago.

TLDR: Good action/espionage movie, kinda In Name Only-ish as a Jack Ryan story as far as feeling goes (since it wasn't written from an existing book).

edited 26th Jan '14 12:40:13 PM by Nohbody

With a super-long weekend on my hands and a library copy, I finished reading Command Authority the other day.

It was a passable Ryanverse story, but needed a more attentive editor, and I don't mean to rein in any tracts or anything like that (which are relatively minor compared to EO, in this case primarily from the Big Bad using the state-controlled TV to speechify In-Universe). Given that the "techno" in "technothriller" is there for a reason, it really should have been given a closer look.

In one of the more glaring examples, they say an OH-58D Kiowa Warrior has a Rolls-Royce turbine, and then an Allison one... in the very same paragraph. The Kiowa hasn't been using Alison turbines since the A/B model, and has never had more than one engine. Also given to the Kiowa Warrior was mounting for 4 Hellfires, which is 2 more than the real thing (even the F model upgrade) is able to carry.

Overall, I'm glad I borrowed this (and the previous volume Threat Vector) from the library, and if I buy it at all it will be in the mass market paperback whenever that comes out.