Martial Arts Thread

Oh, my!

So there's a new judo gym five minutes on foot from my place. Awesome, I practiced both judo and wrestling during college. If available, I'd rather go with either wrestling or BJJ, but hey, the power of convenience cannot be ignored.

I wonder which is better for self-defense, judo or BJJ?

BJJ often has an actual curriculum related to self-defense and is generally more multi-dimensional. Depends on the gym a bit whether it's taught.

Edited by TerminusEst on Jul 29th 2018 at 10:11:06 AM

Convenience was by far the biggest factor contributing to my current choice of gym.

5-10 mins after work on foot, after which traffic has disappeared, AND a Pokemon Go gym in the same location = win.

I have been practicing Kickboxing the past month. According to the coach I'm already reaching the level of making my physical exam to start competing. Either I'm picking up things absurdly fast or he's getting ahead of himself, not sure which.

Well, you don't hear that kind of things if you are messing things up, so it's a good thing either way.

Some of the drills used by beginners in Baraw Sugbo aka Arnes Diablo. It's basically the only FMA that's all about knife attack defense, and isn't really concerned with fighting with one. I had limited exposure to it.

I know this statement was made almost a month ago, but BJJ might be more useful overall, assuming you can't train in both. At this point, there's enough cross-pollination between judoka and BJJ practitioners that it's becoming easier and easier to find a BJJ school that has a solid understanding of takedowns. Many BJJ schools already have at least one moderate-to-high-ranking person (blue, purple or brown belt) who has gone to some judo and wrestling schools for cross-training. I can't speak for all gyms, but I like how promiscuous my gym is when it comes to training doctrines.

Granted, in the two years or so I've been training in jiujitsu, I can see the potential problems it can have in terms of practicality just like any other martial art. For example, pulling guard from a standing position instead of working takedowns is fine for competitions, but I personally think one shouldn't make a habit out of it. I'm sure you can find videos of street fights where at least one person successfully swept their attacker after dropping to their butt and going to spider guard or single X, but that's pretty risky for the average person.

On that note, I suggest training in both gi and no-gi just for variety's sake. Don't overthink the self-defense aspects of either approach. Sometimes your attacker will be fully clothed. Sometimes they might be sleeveless. And really, you can just do gi or just do no-gi and intuit how to establish grips, passes and chokes without getting too thrown off too much - metaphorically and literally.

To change the subject, there's a guy on You Tube called The Pink Man who has debunked a lot of the myths and misconceptions associated with ninjutsu. His humor might be a little too crass for some people, but he basically sums up a lot of the problems I've had with ninjutsu, the pseudo-history of the ninja, and ultimately why I don't really study ninjutsu anymore.

I had some good times studying ninjutsu, but I also encountered too many weird people and weird problems with the techniques, training methods and community standards, so I can't in good conscience return to it.

Pink sounds like a much more sarcastic take on Turnbull's recantation of his participation on the historical side of the ninja craze.

He pretty much uses Turnbull's recantation as a source. Also, Turnbull recently wrote a book on the subject of Ninja myths.

Suddenly reminded how Bujinkan and Aikido guys always come to our demos to see if they can glean some secrets.

Edited by TerminusEst on Aug 26th 2018 at 11:06:59 AM

For the curious. This is what I am talking about.

The Ninja: An Invented Tradition by Steven Turnbull.

Former Bujinkan guy here. I saw plenty of that. Cross-training is great, but don't take skills from another school or style and pretend that they're part of some 500-year-old ninja scroll that was sealed away in a cave by Ryu Hyabusa himself.

The tracking seminars were legit and a ton of fun, especially since the instructors who led them were conservationists, environmentalists, firefighters and retired SOF personnel with easily verifiable credentials. I honestly think that was the reason why our school was as good as it was. Once those people left (and I left with them), I'm told things started to get a little Jim Jones-esque.

Edited by Aprilla on Aug 27th 2018 at 8:59:17 AM

Hey! We actually do have 500-year old scrolls (no ninjas though)! Well, some of them were lost in the 60's, but thankfully photos had been taken (and several reproductions made) so the information wasn't lost. Damn is it a shame though.

Edited by TerminusEst on Aug 27th 2018 at 12:23:14 PM

So I've been watching Cobra Kai recently.

It's great. I need more series like this.

@Aprilla - Sorry for the looong overdue reply.

Seems like BJJ is the better option for me.

An article on the Takamura-ha Shindo Yoshin-ryu school of martial arts, it's history and technique. It's one of the few actual koryu schools headed by a foreigner (as in he's the actual headmaster), namely Toby Threadgill. Also recently landed in Finland as well, adding to the existing schools already here, which is always nice.

Edited by TerminusEst on Nov 6th 2018 at 8:09:45 AM

No rush, man. We're all busy.

So. I tried BJJ for a month now...and now I am calling quits.

I just can't catch up, even in the beginner level, both in terms of stamina and comprehending instructions. Also, I am far too introverted to ask someone to be my sparring partner. And those two combine - I struggle to find a sparring partner, then lack practice, fall more behind, lose self confidence, and repeat - into one vicious cycle of ineptitude.

-grumbles grumbles-

Edited by dRoy on Dec 12th 2018 at 8:23:55 PM

It's completely normal to feel overwhelmed and like you have no idea what's going on.

I spent like 6 months getting tossed around. Only reason I stopped is due to transportation issues during non-daylight-savings-time, and am going back once it's DST again.

Measure your improvement by how much longer it takes you to get tapped compared to the beginning.

The Modern Martial Artist, a youtuber who talks about boxing and MMA fights and fighters, did a profile on one of the most absolute;y insane and fun to watch boxers I've ever watched, Emmanuel Augustus, sometimes called The Drunken Master by fan after an announcer compared Augustus' unique style to drunken jung fu in an attempt to describe it.

While the episode is heavy on technical jargon, (with terms like centerline, head slot, open vs narrow stance, etc.) not all of which may be easily understandable, I nonetheless strongly encourage everyone to watch if only to enjoy seeing an unorthodox, Crazy Awesome, Dance Battler type of style used successfully in boxing, and the sheer fun of that. Youtube link

For bonus points, the ex-boxer on Imgur who does profiles of particular fights and the careers of fighters did a special on one of Augustus' fights not too long ago, and I think it's something else a lot of folks in this thread would enjoy. Especially with the ending: Augustus' opponent seems to develop a head injury late in the bout, (actually a pinched nerve in the neck) and not knowing what the injury is but obviously seeing the severity of it and the way it's effecting him, Augustus refuses to throw any punches to head so as to not potentially put his opponent's health in risk until the fight is stopped. Imgur link

Oh, and since I mentioned escudo, (the Imgur ex-boxer) he also recently did a breakdown of the first Castillo vs Corrales fight, one of the biggest and best wars in the last 20 years of boxing, complete with an absolutely astounding ending. Castillo vs Corrales

I quite like MMA and Escudonbk's work. Emmanuel Augustus might just be the best Boxer nobody ever heard of, really. A journeyman with world-class skills. The only thing that held him back was having a below-average power and average hand-speed. That difference in power and hand-speed was really the deciding factor in his war against Mayweather (a guy with above-average power and absurd hand-speed), which Mayweather still considers the toughest fight of his career (which, given Mayweather's career, is one Hell of an accomplishment), because in technical regards they were actually mostly evenly-matched.

His war with Micky Ward was really one for the ages, too.

While this thread is great, I wish we had a boxing one to discuss this kind of subject in-depth.

As a fan of guys like Pacquiao and Cotto, I'm somehow going to (mostly) resist the urge to tease about Mayweather not fighting the big fights until his opponent got old or were at some other sort of disadvantage...

But you're dead on about Augustus' skills and technical abilities. The man knew the sport and how to box inside and out, as good as a top level technical fighter like Mayweather or Juan Manuel Marquez, he just didn't have the physical tools that could translate that knowledge and technical mastery to a spot atop the sport, the way Mayweather and Marquez could. Although I doubt that anything ever hurt Augustus like judges with a stick up their ass who decided he was making a mockery of the sport or whatever and scored against him in blatantly BS ways. (Guys who foul their way to the top or get there on daddy's name and connections? [Golota, Chavez Jr.] That's fine. Guys who have a good time, do something different, and win over fans? Making a laughingstock of the sport. I love boxing, but it's like everyone in the sport could win a gold medal in misplaced priorities...)

Hey, I don't actually disagree, but the man's still had a very impressive career and beat some big names (even if during their downturn or at some cruel catchweights), can't take that away form him. Given Mayweather is practically ancient by boxing standards and his wrists/hands have become very brittle, it's not like anything can be done about it except, maaaybe, May-Pac II to finish both of their careers. I think current Canelo could probably beat current Mayweather (and possibly beat Prime Mayweather) but it wouldn't really matter to match up a man in his absolute prime against a guy in his forties, so May-Pac II it is, more even ground.

Yeah, the judges robbing Augustus (alongside his habit of taking fights on absurdly short notice) may have been a even more crucial factor for his downfall than his physical shortcomings. Even his war against Ward, as legendary as it was, I kind of felt he won or was a draw, but Ward got the nod. It wasn't a robbery since it was a very close fight, but it was still symptomatic that Augustus's most mainstream fight (Fight of the Year and whatnot) still ended with the referees being uncharitable with him, particularly with it being a Unanimous Decision rather than a Split Decision.

@dRoy: That's a shame to hear. I would roll with you if you were in my gym. Right now, we have a fundamentals class and an advanced class, with mat rolls in between the two and a final one for the evening. Students can train as little or as often as they see fit.

I'm pondering about the size and rank composition of your class because a diverse enough group with plenty of people should offer more range in terms of learning aptitude. Not being able to find a partner sounds a bit odd, but I've heard of that problem in some gyms. Where I train, you just grab someone - anyone - and drill or roll. If someone is left out, it's usually because there are almost too many people on the mat.

In my experience, the "homecoming dance" problem is best alleviated when upper ranks just pair you off without hesitation so no one is shyly waiting for a partner. We have a black belt from Brazil who is a big stickler about that. Just grab someone and go. You're not asking them on a date. I remember how confusing it can be in the beginning, so if I see a new white belt on their first day of class, I try to grab them immediately so they don't feel awkward.

Regarding discussions about boxing, I think it's fine to keep it here in this thread. I enjoy lurking and reading what you two have to say on the matter. Very fascinating stuff.

Bumping because Zhang Weili just became China's first UFC champ last weekend.

Ouch. That looked really damn painful to lose that way. Grats to the victor though.