Super Smash Bros.

It was Melee that Wario was almost in. And if I read correctly, Marth actually was almost in 64, too.

Edited by kablammin45 on Jan 23rd 2019 at 10:39:22 AM

I think Sakurai also stated that Peach was done and could have been playable in 64 but held her back.

Given how quick the turnaround was between the original and Melee, it makes sense that a bunch of Melee’s newcomers were designed during the development of the first game.

Marth and Roy were almost Version-Exclusive Content. Thankfully Sakurai changed his mind; if not, we probably would never have seen any Fire Emblem games in the west, and considering that's one of my favorite franchises, I'm eternally grateful.

Funny thing, Roy was almost replaced with Leif, but considering Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade was on the horizon, he was put in as an advertisement for the game, though Sakurai had to guess at his personality and made him Hot-Blooded instead of the calm, noble person he is in the game proper.

Plus Ness would have been cut from Melee in favor of Lucas if Mother 3 hadn't been delayed, funny enough. And we were gonna get 3rd party as early as Melee, but Sakurai couldn't get in contact with Konami or Sega for Snake or Sonic in time.

Wasn't there a bunch of characters people thought "were supposed/planned to be in 64 but cut" ended up being a bunch of lies?

Showerthought: If Wario was in Melee, he would've had a Wario Land moveset instead of the farting monstrosity we got in Brawl.

So the next Spirit Board even is called "The More the Merrier"

YOU KNOW WHAT THEY SAY

He still woulda varted...farted.

I wonder what that means. Is it just going to be a bunch of team battles?

It's about the Spirits that have multiple characters in one spirit

Like, for example, the Spirit that is Articuno Zapdos & Moltres

Think I'll pass on those, thanks. They were easily among the worst of the Spirit battles, in my view.

Also, as I recall, many people on the team of the original Smash worked on Earth Bound as well. For all that Kirby and his franchise are brought up in terms of favorites that get in from the creator's past work, I believe Ness is the one whose inclusion is most obvious of it.

Which suits me fine; I'm a big fanboy of the series and Ness is my main.

I don't know why Ness is still around. I think Sakurai forgets to remove him

Ness is pretty much a mainstay in Smash by this point and his game is one of Nintendo's biggest Cult Classics, to the point that if Ness were to get removed from a Smash game, there'd probably be a huge Internet Backdraft, and I think Sakurai is very much aware of that.

I remember people were legitimately freaking out during Smash 4's development because Ness (and Captain Falcon as well) wasn't confirmed to be returning for the game for the better part of 4's development and were only placated when he and Captain Falcon finally were toward the end of the games' development. That should probably say a lot about how much people still like and expect to see Ness in Smash.

Edited by kablammin45 on Jan 23rd 2019 at 1:14:46 PM

Not to mention the fact that Earthbound (and to a lesser extent the rest of the Mother series) has gotten a much higher profile in recent years with the game being rereleased on the Wii U eshop and SNES Classic, thanks at least in part to Smash continuing to keep people at least somewhat aware of the series. Ness isn't nearly as obscure a choice in the west now as he was in 1999 or 2001.

Forgot to add Joking Mode to my comment. I was clearly joking

I’m pretty sure the original 12 are always going to be there. If Jigglypuff is still in, none of them are getting cut.

And there’s a small handful of other characters I think are always a lock now (Marth, Olimar, Inkling probably) because they’re the main reps for major franchises.

Smash Bros doesn't really help with marketing. Just look at F-Zero. Even if Roy & Marth weren't in Melee, I'm pretty sure Fire Emblem would've come to west regardless.

I used thought that was a good thing for Leif. It's pretty annoying when everyone calls Roy "Fire Marth" & it's not that hard to believe that Leif would've been called somewhere between "Magic Marth" or "Brunette Marth". Leif arguably has the biggest versatile for a moveset with him being a weapon master & everything, so it would've a massive injustice for him just being a Marth clone.

But that's how I used to think, nowadays I don't even care if Sakura & his team flanderize the rest of the franchise now. All it is now just a target for every other serie's ire. Including itself.

It's not like the roster is worse for it

Edited by agent-trunks on Jan 23rd 2019 at 10:24:19 AM

I wouldn't be so sure. F-Zero was actually released in the west, so even if it wasn't a hot seller, people could conceivably know who Captain Falcon was. Same with Ness.

FE was literally unheard of in the west. Not a peep. The most was an obscure spot in Nintendo Power for Genealogy that didn't end up going anywhere iirc. And that had a lot of bizzare translation choices... 'Jihad of the Holy War,' for one...

People had literally no idea who Marth or Roy were without reading the descriptions of their trophies, and even with those with both of them just saying "Fire Emblem," people in the west thought they were from the same game. It was literally their look and playstyle we had to go off of which generated interest in the franchise.

EDIT: Going off of the Leif thing, peoples' unfamiliarity with anything FE was where the whole "x color Marth" meme and the "Are Marth or Roy in this game?" meme come from. We have Marth Debuted in "Smash Bros." for a reason after all.

Edited by ILikeRobots on Jan 23rd 2019 at 10:33:35 AM

Besides the original 12, Peach, Bowser, Zelda, Ganon, Falco, Marth, Pit, Wario and Villager feel like they are here to stay.

Edited by fasoman1996 on Jan 23rd 2019 at 3:39:38 PM

I We MAY have gotten Fire Emblem eventually anyway, but it’s just as possible we wouldn’t have. They were about to have six games across three systems by the time Marth and Roy were in Smash Bros. They seemed pretty committed to not localizing them.

Would fans have eventually willed a localization into existence? Maybe, maybe not. It worked with Xenoblade Chronicles, and has consistently failed with Mother 3.

Speaking of which, if they ever do release Mother 3 in the west, what are they going to call it? Because both parts of that title are nonsensical with the way the series is named in English.

Edited by BadWolf21 on Jan 23rd 2019 at 12:47:22 PM

Oh man, I remember Lucas' reveal pre-Brawl. His description on the Dojo mentioned that Ness had been in SSB "up until now" - but Ness wasn't revealed pre-release. People were taking that line to mean that Ness had been dropped in favor of Lucas, and that was not pretty. Flame wars on Gamefaqs, edit wars on Wikipedia, all the works.

I was on team "The phrasing was just weird," so if nothing else, at least I got to feel vindicated in the end.

Yeah, the Smash Bros. team never takes the time to think "is it possible for this to be misinterpreted?". In other words, they often say very misleading things, such as seemingly implying that Dracula's Castle has monsters as stage hazards.

Just like to point out, Xenoblade Chronicles was already translated by No E (The English version for the USA came out in 2012) by the time Shulk was confirmed in Smash 4. Smash just made Xenoblade more popular.

I think the characters staying entirely in the next game is Diddy Kong, all the Kirby characters (Because Sakurai bias), all the KIU characters besides from Dark Pit, Princess Peach and Zelda and Bowser.

Characters having a high chance of staying are Wario, Ridley, King K Rool, Sonic and maybe Mewtwo.

Edited by ReynTime250 on Jan 23rd 2019 at 6:50:06 PM

I Fasoman: Bowser and Villager should probably have been on my earlier list. I don’t think that both Peach and Zelda are guaranteed every time, and the longer we go without Ganondorf appearing in a new game, the less likely it becomes that he’s always there. Pit is only a shoo-in because of Sakurai, so if/when he moves on, Pit’s odds go down. Falco and Wario I just straight up disagree with you on. Nothing keeps either of them safe.

Edited by BadWolf21 on Jan 23rd 2019 at 12:49:26 PM