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This is the thread for discussion of The Order of the Stick plot, characters, etc. We have a separate thread for discussing game rules and mechanics. Excessive rules discussions here may be thumped as off-topic.

OP edited to make this header - Fighteer

edited 18th Sep '17 1:08:08 PM by Fighteer

LMage Scion of the Dragon from Miss Robichaux's Academy Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Scion of the Dragon
Aug 22nd 2019 at 10:13:11 PM

Short of 'destroy the snarl forever and render the threat inert' the 'spot weld the rifts to make the world last eons' plan seems best right now. The Dark One needs time to consolidate power and worship enough that the destruction of the world wont make him fizzle, and a few million years might do the trick.

"You are never taller then when standing up for yourself"
Aug 23rd 2019 at 12:10:57 AM

^^ Well, actually, being god of a cannon fodder race wouldn't be a bad setup to net lots of belief. Goblins have a high rate of reproduction, reach maturity quickly, only believe in one god (their patron) and die frequently to adventurers or whatever. That means the Dark One should accumulate followers, both living and dead, much more quickly than someone like Thor. I think the only limiting factor would be that they're so cannon foddery and lacking in central structure that their overall population might actually be lower than races like humans.

Kostya from Everywhere Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Aug 23rd 2019 at 4:53:00 AM

Has it been established if the elf gods and deities like Dvalin are from this world? If so then I wonder if they know about this issue.

Edited by Kostya on Aug 23rd 2019 at 7:53:16 AM

Kayeka World's biggest wannabe from Amsterdam Relationship Status: Brony
World's biggest wannabe
Aug 23rd 2019 at 6:25:30 AM

[up]Yes. No "new" gods so far have survived the end of whichever world they originated from.

People say I have a problem with authority. I say that authority has a problem with me.
HeraldAlberich from Ohio Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
Aug 23rd 2019 at 6:40:36 AM

[up] That doesn't follow from Thor's line, "I've seen new gods with more worshipers than he has fail to make it." That doesn't mean that all new gods have died with their worlds, just that there's no guarantee they'll survive.

That said, I do think Dvalin and the elven gods are from this world, otherwise as far as the mortals are concerned, they'd just be established parts of their pantheons and no one would know any different.

Tharkun140 The Arch-Douchebag Relationship Status: What is this thing you call love?
The Arch-Douchebag
Aug 23rd 2019 at 6:43:31 AM

I mean, for Dvalin to be from one of the previous worlds he would have had to make his oath to some other Dwarfen Council, see it be destroyed alongside his world, wait for another completely unrelated Dwarfen Council to be founded and then proceed to obey their decisions. Doesn't sound very probable.

Apathy is Death. Worse than Death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds beasts and insects.
TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Exposition Dragon
Aug 23rd 2019 at 7:44:47 AM

I've been assuming that all of the demigods are from this world.

If you can have enough God Juice to be a full god yet still not enough to survive the transition between worlds, what hope do the demigods have?

The greatest trick prejudice ever pulled was to convince the world it did not exist.
Kostya from Everywhere Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Aug 23rd 2019 at 7:52:42 AM

[up]I don't think the distinction is one of god or demigod. Many of the demigods are beings in real world Norse mythology. I feel like it would be a weird decision on Rich's part to make them beings that weren't initially part of the pantheon and came into existence later.

Aug 23rd 2019 at 7:59:28 AM

I've been thinking that all of the demi-gods probably are ascended gods, but that being an ascended god and demi-god are not synonymous. The Dark One has never been referred to as a demi-god, and while the Elven gods might have some among them, the distinction has been made with them either.

FuzzyBoots from Outlying borough of Pittsburgh (there's a lot of Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Aug 23rd 2019 at 8:32:17 AM

I figured "demi-god" in fantasy settings is more of a political thing, like the joke about how the difference between a language and a dialect is that a language has a standing navy. Not so much that they aren't an actual god as that they're not part of the Old Guard of gods.

Aug 25th 2019 at 7:12:17 AM

Yeah I'm still totally lost as to what the distinction is between god and demigod. Given the theological reveals of this book, ante-dating the creation of the current world would seem to be the obvious distinction, but that doesn't fit.

Aug 25th 2019 at 9:05:53 AM

I've just been figuring it's a power thing. I think that's true to standard Dnd as well.

Aug 25th 2019 at 9:48:45 AM

I thought it was that demigods are associated with an existing pantheon for stability reasons.

sgamer82 from Meridian, ID
Aug 25th 2019 at 10:00:51 AM

I was looking at the current comic just a bit ago and a thought hit me. A question I can probably assume was explained but I can't recall where:

Why did Hel even need to go through all this?

If her endgame is for the world to end and becoming capable of empowering living clerics again, why did she need to go through this whole scheme when the same mechanics (being able to claim the souls of the dwarves to empower herself) would have applied regardless of how things shook out.

I understand that the vampiring of Durkon gave her the opportunity to enact her plan, to jump into the Godsmoot. But, in light of the reveal of all the past attempts at a world, even if they voted not to destroy the world right then, aren't the gods acting under the assumption that it will be destroyed at some point?

At the risk of answering my own question, the only thing I can think of is she knows about the Purple Quiddity and fears it might actually be able to permanently seal the Snarl, leaving her as she is forever.

Plus, remember how in Eragon everyone cries "a single tear"? Yeah, just try that with One Piece and see if it works
Aug 25th 2019 at 10:11:44 AM

Because Hel seems impatient by nature, and being malnourished doesn't seem like it's been doing her mental state much good either. Honestly, I get wanting to end things sooner rather than later if it's possible, given her position.

I supposed it's also possible she knows about the Thor and Loki's plan, and is aware of what that would mean for her.

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas
Professional Forum Ninja
Aug 25th 2019 at 10:14:07 AM

She also knew that the Order was actively trying to fix things (through her servant inside Durkon's body) and the Godsmoot would end in favor of holding off, so there was a greater than zero chance the world would be saved and she wouldn't get her plan through.

So I'll make a resolution, that I'll never make another one, just enjoy this ride on my trip around the sun, until its done.
Aug 25th 2019 at 10:17:31 AM

Because she's suffering right now and wants to end that and get her revenge as quickly as possible.

Gilphon Untrustworthy from The Third Sound Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Untrustworthy
Aug 25th 2019 at 10:22:54 AM

Remember that if the Gods destroy the world themselves instead of waiting for the Snarl to do it, Hel will get all the Dwarven souls- and so, by pushing them to do so, she guarantees a place of power for herself in the next world. That's the prize she's playing for here.

Edited by Gilphon on Aug 25th 2019 at 1:24:16 PM

"Canada Day is over, and now begins the endless dark of the Canada Night."
TobiasDrake Exposition Dragon from Colorado, USA Relationship Status: She's holding a very large knife
Exposition Dragon
Aug 25th 2019 at 10:32:07 AM

In addition to the fact that she's suffering now and wants that to end, there are two other things to consider:

  1. There is no drawback for doing this. Hel loses nothing if it fails, gains everything if it succeeds. As a cost-benefit analysis, there's no reason not to.
  2. The outcome Hel wants actually isn't guaranteed. If the gods don't vote for apocalypse and the Snarl destroys the world, it will devour all of those dwarven souls. In that outcome, Hel doesn't get shit.

The greatest trick prejudice ever pulled was to convince the world it did not exist.
HandsomeRob Completely trustworthy from The world that never was Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
LMage Scion of the Dragon from Miss Robichaux's Academy Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
Scion of the Dragon
Aug 25th 2019 at 1:16:31 PM

Their's also the fact that because of how this shook out, if she dosen't claim the Dwarven souls she might NOT make it to the next world. If she starves to death in the cooling down period, then she's done as the Dark One would be.

"You are never taller then when standing up for yourself"
HandsomeRob Completely trustworthy from The world that never was Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Completely trustworthy
Aug 25th 2019 at 1:38:52 PM

Which ironically enough gives her a reason to ally with the Dark One: they are both in the same boat.

Though now that I think about it, they benefit from different situations really? She'd be better off if the world was destroyed (so she could claim the dishonoured dead) while he benefits more from it not being destroyed (since he can't really survive the move to the next world, even if he doesn't know it).

Everyone is XEHANORT
Kayeka World's biggest wannabe from Amsterdam Relationship Status: Brony
World's biggest wannabe
Aug 25th 2019 at 1:42:14 PM

The Dark One also wants a better deal for goblin-kind right now, as opposed to in a hypothetical new world. He wants to hold a gun to the other gods' heads, not actually fire it.

People say I have a problem with authority. I say that authority has a problem with me.
HandsomeRob Completely trustworthy from The world that never was Relationship Status: Getting away with murder
Completely trustworthy
Aug 25th 2019 at 1:45:08 PM

That too.

He's similarly impatient, but then again, they've given him reason to say fuck the system.

Shame that he doesn't realize they need him and that this might be unnecessary.

Then again, Thor doesn't speak for all the gods; just because they might have the chance to make things better for Goblins if he helps out doesn't mean that will track.

From his point of view, his current plan might still be better, since the Spot welding plan relies upon trusting the other gods, and he's totally unwilling to do that.

Everyone is XEHANORT
Kayeka World's biggest wannabe from Amsterdam Relationship Status: Brony
World's biggest wannabe
Aug 25th 2019 at 2:01:23 PM

Yeah, that's likely going to be what happens. The Good gods try to reason with the Dark One, because that is what being Good demands, but the Dark One is evil and will refuse out of spite.

Edited by Kayeka on Aug 25th 2019 at 11:04:55 AM

People say I have a problem with authority. I say that authority has a problem with me.

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