Avatar: The Last Airbender

Double post due to rollover.

The Lieutenant is a Memetic Loser, yes. Mostly because he got hit by The Worf Effect (ironically, Worf was another lieutenant). However, in his debut, he quickly beat (a distracted) Lin, and had a sustained 1 on 1 against season 1 Korra.

Asami's not a bad pick. I know she has disarmed the Lieutenant, and rewatched her action scenes to see she could do a bodyscissors takedown. But beyond that, there was one knee to the chest, one wristlock on Varrick, and then it's just, "Encircle, lightning glove, end turn." I'd like to have seen more varied offense from her, like the other non-benders have shown. Did she show more CQC ability in the comics? Any other weapons?
I'm reluctant to see a fighting game feature someone whose moveset is entirely based around one hand.

It doesn't make me happy to say, but he showed more in one fight scene than she did in four seasons.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Feb 12th 2021 at 8:14:37 AM

Oooh, are we talking about Avatar fighting games? Because I want to talk about Avatar fighting games!

Okay, for the longest time I've been wondering how bending would translate to fighting game terms (note: I'm thinking a 2D fighter here), and I've found a few videos that helped me work it out.

Example: Fantasy Strike is meant as a basic primer to all 2D fighters, with all characters boiled down to the simplest movesets while still being a lot of fun. So I watched this video;

And I'm all like, "Dude, that's perfect for firebending." A rushdown character with low HP but high attack power and major chip damage would be great for a firebender.

And then this video;

Showed me a great airbending build — also a rushdown, but this time with an emphasis on speed and mobility. This version of rushdown doesn't hit for a lot, but it makes up for it by hitting a lot.

For Earthbenders, I first thought of the a grappler type — you know, for the Mighty Glacier thing — but grapplers famously have little to no projectiles to make up for their up-close dominance, and every bender has projectiles. So I thought I'd make Earthbenders charge characters;

It's a simplified version, but you get the basic idea; it takes more effort to get the big moves out, but in return the big moves hit much harder. That's great for earthbending, a "stubborn element."

Waterbending was actually the trickiest to pin down, as the Stone Wall arctype isn't all that fun to play and I couldn't find good examples of that. Ultimately, I figured waterbending would be a Shoto Clone — balancing offence and defense, flowing swiftly from one to the other. Although I do like this guy's "frame trapping" style;

Punishing whiffed attacks seems a great fit for waterbenders, who make their defense their offense.

Of course, in an actual fighting game this would be much more complicated and diverse to give characters their own unique playstyles. Toph, for example, could also use the "frame trapping" idea as it also fits well with the "wait and listen" approach, and I think Korra would actually do best as the Shoto character.

To help with this, I also watched this video on fighting game arctypes:

Which also pointed out how arctypes are mixed and matched all the time, and are therefore more guidelines than anything else.

Although his sections on Zoners helped me figure out which characters would fit the type; Mai, obviously, for her barrages of small projectiles, Mig Hua, for her water arms' long reach, and P'Li, who would basically play like Guile — only one, maybe two special moves, but those moves hit like a bomb (because they basically are).

Edited by drac0blade on Feb 12th 2021 at 8:48:42 AM

I honestly don't think a 2-D fighter can do bending justice. Capturing the creativity and the sheer scale of bending elements at one another is the kind of thing that you'd want a large arena for - especially since waterbenders and earthbenders care about terrain, which is something that could be worked into their fight mechanics.

There is something to be said for a well-balanced 2-D fighter. A game like Dragon Ball FighterZ is a work of art, with every punch and kick and super move ripped straight off of some bit of animation somewhere in the show. It is a marvelous fighting game. But it's not a very good Dragon Ball game, because Tenshinhan and Broly pacing back and forth on the ground three feet from each other, exchanging kicks, and then one of them lobbing a ki ball before the other shoots a screen-filling ki beam doesn't quite capture the sheer intense scope of a Dragon Ball fight.

I feel like a 2-D fighter for Avatar would be in the same boat. It might be a very cool fighting game, and it could make for some intense fights for the fighting game community, but it wouldn't be a very good Avatar game because the fights would feel very diminished from the huge, sweeping attacks and massive area effects that fans are used to seeing onscreen in practically every fight.

Even just the close-range placement of the fighters in a 2-D game feels wrong for Avatar; benders are universally mid- to long-range combatants, volleying shots and slices and terrain effects at one another while very rarely getting in close. It's specifically nonbenders who emphasize getting into close-range, which should be what distinguishes them from benders in a fighting game.

You can make a really cool 2-D fighter that has Avatar characters skinned over it, but you can't make a really good Avatar game that's a 2-D fighter. The characters need distance, space, and a third dimension to make their attacks pop like they do in the show.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Feb 12th 2021 at 11:22:17 AM

Yes but consider: arena fighters suck. No-one has ever made a truly fantastic, well-balanced, competitive arena fighter. The closest anyone has gotten is Pokken, which is a 2D fighter half of the time. It's not theoretically impossible to make a good competitive arena fighter (the Pokken arena mode is a damn good starting point), but no-one has so far.

• Arena fighter Avatar game: Mediocre, flashy but shallow. Not taken seriously in the competitive community. Forgotten in a year (hey, remember that Kill La Kill arena fighter that looked really good and everyone forgot about immediately?)

• 2D fighter Avatar game: Amazing, deep and complex. Taken seriously as a competitive game. Played for years and years after release with a constant presence in tournaments, and multiple seasons of DLC characters.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Feb 13th 2021 at 1:03:52 PM

Shit if Power Rangers can get a decently successful fighting game, Avatar has a chance too.

Honestly, if there is an Avatar fighting game, it should play like the Naruto: Ultimate Ninja Storm series by Cyber Connect 2.

Exactly. And too often 2D fighters boil down to "knock them into the corner to start a touch of death combo." Plus they're more prone to limiting the number of moves a character can do. Even Dante and Dormammu had significant limits compared to what they could otherwise do.

Something about the time between mvc3 and mvc:i turned me off on 2D fighters in general. And it wasn't just that series. Conversely, since Pokken and Naruto came up again after I'd mentioned them before. I think if there's one thing that's agreeable, it's that Bandai Namco puts out good 3D fighters.

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Feb 13th 2021 at 11:35:28 AM

Maybe a platform fighter would be better? Not necessarily keeping the damage/knockback/ring-out system like Smash, but the freedom of movement and the use of the stage itself as part of the matchup would translate well.

Platform fighters do still lack some of the grounding that is integral to Earth and Firebending, and shifts focus away from some of that martial arts focus. Meanwhile it's hard to look at Xiaoyu without thinking of Tenzin, to look at Steve without thinking of Bolin. Literally put 5 more feet between the combatants, and that's a bending battle.

Huh. Virtua Fighter hasn't had a new game in almost 15 years. SEGA, if you're looking for a new fighting game IP....
(Seriously though SEGA, what happened to you? So many dead I Ps... Making it hard for me to be a fan)

Edited by wanderlustwarrior on Feb 13th 2021 at 2:54:58 PM

I see no reason we can't have an ArcSys developed 2D fighter with tight balancing and controls, and also a 3D spectacle arena fighter with epic screen-enveloping bending moves.

Edited by drac0blade on Feb 13th 2021 at 5:23:54 AM

POTD (Post of the Day) in the Pony Thread had an interesting question and it's one I'm curious about, too.

"But how exactly does this system work in Ba Sing Se? They obviously aren't mind controlling everyone, and given the sheer number of refugees and the like pouring in, they can't possibly keep the war a secret from EVERYONE"

They're just trying to keep the king unaware. That means silencing the upper ring, and restricting and monitoring who comes in.

It was more an giant open secret. Obviously they couldn't actually keep everyone from knowing about it, but they could still make it so no one would dare talking about it in public.

The only person they actually seemed invested in flat out not knowing was the king himself.

Edited by LSBK on Feb 15th 2021 at 1:45:08 PM

Also, all the refugees start in the Lower Ring. As they move up (if they move up) they get more Dai Li presence and warnings.

Thought experiment: would it have been better for the Hundred Year War if Aang didn't freeze himself but just straight up died of hypothermia, drowning, shock, etc, letting the next Waterbender become the Avatar?

If the new Avatar had been born in the Northern Water Tribe, they probably would've survived the Fire Nation's invasion and lived to an age where they could fight back.

But since the previous Water Tribe Avatar was already from the Northern Tribe, the new Avatar probably would've been born to the Southern Tribe (like Korra), where they probably would've been captured soon after birth or made to live in secret their whole childhood.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Feb 16th 2021 at 3:22:00 AM

There's no answer questions like that definitively because there are so many variables, but even saying that "no" because there would be no Airbenders to teach this new Avatar.

I wasn't asking for a definitive answer, it was a little "what if this happened" thing. Speculation and all that.

...I was actually wondering about the Airbenders. I clarified "for the Hundred Year War" because, well, Aang only becomes the last survivor because he freezed himself. So, yeah, that would be bad for them.

But would they be able to sink resources into the genocide if the war wasn't going as well as they hoped with the other nations? The Airbenders weren't involved in the war until they attacked, correct?

As for the art of airbending, well, sure, losing that would suck. But...is it really that vital for the war effort?

The war started with the attack on the Air Nomads.

And now I'm a bit confused, I think this proposition was "how would the war go if there was an Avatar currently around", but is that not the main point you're making?

Edited by LSBK on Feb 16th 2021 at 5:34:05 AM

Oh, I forgot that.

Edit: For further clarification...yeah, I guess. If the Avatar was actually around when the Hundred Year War started and, with the cycle, became a Waterbender.

Edited by fredhot16 on Feb 16th 2021 at 3:36:04 AM

The Toph graphic novel is out today.

If there really were no living airbenders to teach a new Avatar, I imagine the past Avatars would step in. Aside from the utility of Airbending as a combat art, being Fully Realized and able to access the Avatar State would be considered vital to the war effort, and some knowledge of all four disciplines seems to be a prerequisite. (Yes, Aang came close with only three.) As to why the past lives didn’t just teach Aang given the time pressure he was under, they seem to only be able to intervene and give knowledge that has no other source, like the advice from their own life experiences.

Alternatively, perhaps this hypothetical Avatar would find the inspiration to develop new airbending forms, perhaps by locating a herd of wild flying bison and learning from them as the original airbenders did. This new style would necessarily be more utilitarian than the old ways, and the loss of the beautiful Ba Gua–inspired airbending would be properly tragic, without requiring the art as a whole to disappear forever.

It kind of seems like they have to learn Bending from the living and cannot just rely on their past selves for it.

And re-learning it from the Sky Bisons wouldn't have been a realistic option, since the Sky Bison were critically endangered. There was only one herd left, and that one wasn't discovered until after the Hundred Year War had been resolved.

Without anyone else to teach them, an Avatar's Airbending would be self-taught and relatively crude. Not unlike Zaheer's Airbending.

Edited by M84 on Feb 17th 2021 at 10:18:02 PM

All Avatars seem to have an innate talent for their bending, regardless of any teaching. Presumably an untrained Avatar would still have some amount of intuition of their abilities to draw from.

It'd probably also be like Korra's first Airbending, which amounted to simple yet effective long range punches with air.