History YMMV / Victoria

* SomeAnvilsNeedToBeDropped: While most of the book's political messages will be [[Administrivia/RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgment intensely controversial]] ''at best'', one thing it does say that most readers will probably agree with is that [[GreenAesop we must take better care of the environment]]. This is done with the same subtlety (or lack of it) as most other points, with a CharacterFilibuster on how the Soviet Communists caused horrible pollution in Russia, which still plagues the country even now and must be dealt with by the new Russian government if they want a future for their children--but whether the delivery is {{Anvilicious}} or not, the message as such is both sane and socially relevant, and in the context of the story it adds depth to the hyper-conservative protagonists by showing them as caring about something that is often viewed as only a left-wing issue.

* CriticalResearchFailure: Several times, Lind gets a even the most basic facts wrong. For example, he tries to paint the T-34 as a good, reliable tank, just what the Christian Marines need. However, said tank was known for frequent breakdowns (modern computerized systems such as fuel injection greatly improve reliability), among other problems. [[note]] And that's not even getting into the fact that the newest T-34 rolled off the assembly line in 1958. The tanks are almost 60 years old, at best, at the time of the novel's publication. And the ones that Russia has are mostly literal museum pieces in the real world, disabled to the point they're fancy metal sculptures.[[/note]] Furthermore, at the end, he claims that the different branches of Christianity have joined together in order to launch a massive crusade... against a similarly united Islamic world. This is laughably impossible, for many reasons. [[note]]Even setting aside the huge divides within each faith, [[NotSoDifferent both Christianity and Islam]] have spent as much, if not ''more'' of their histories warring between different branches and denominations of ''[[TeethClenchedTeamwork their]] [[WeAreStrugglingTogether own]]'' religions as they have with one another.[[/note]] Finally, he argues that allowing women in the army was stupid because "all armies, everywhere, that had actually fought anyone had been made up solely of men". While militaries with female members have not been the rule in human history, they have existed since the Ancient World in some places, and one of the most successful militaries in human history, the Mongols, included women in both command and field positions.

* TooBleakStoppedCaring: [[AmazonBrigade Azania]] [[DoesNotLikeMen is]] [[{{Gendercide}} genocidal]], [[AnimalWrongsGroup Paleopitus]] [[AGodAmI is crazy]], [[EvilLuddite Cascadia]] [[HorrorHippies is murderous]], the [[DirtyCommies Marxists]] are cruel, [[TotalitarianGangsterism the Aztecs]] ''[[IAmAHumanitarian eat people]]'', the [[GodwinsLaw Nazis]], are, well, ''Nazis'', and the [[TheTheocracy Christian]] [[ChurchMilitant Marines]] -- the ''good guys'' -- are [[AngryWhiteMan violently racist]], [[StayInTheKitchen sexist]] and [[HeteronormativeCrusader homophobic]] {{Right Wing Militia Fanatic}}s whose solution to black gangs rioting in Atlanta is to [[NukeEm nuke]] [[DisproportionateRetribution the]] [[MoralEventHorizon city]] -- oh, and they find themselves to be NotSoDifferent from the Nazis when representatives of both meet to talk. Eventually the Christian Marines win and bring about in much of North America a new Retroculture regime -- that resembles [[UsefulNotes/TheApartheidEra Apartheid-times South Africa]] more than anything, with a particular emphasis on "voluntary" exile of African-Americans to the countryside settlements (with the exception of a hand-picked few "useful professionals"), -- and other analogous movements do the same throughout most of the world. So... [[SarcasmMode Yaaaaaaaaay?]]

** The Paleopitus turn Cascadia into a North Korean-style PeoplesRepublicOfTyranny with mass famines, notionally to [[GaiasRevenge protect the environment]] -- and so, their true evil becomes apparent when they [[{{Hypocrite}} bring in Chinese corporations to strip-mine the state in order to line their own pockets.]]

** The drug cartels of Mexico join forces into a neo-Aztec Empire, reviving all the human sacrifice and cannibalism that characterized that society. While the drug cartels are indeed pretty horrible, to put it mildly, they're also (esoteric and heretical) Catholics, and they fight one another for market share as often as they fight their governments. They're also funded to a large extend by American demand and armed with American guns; the catastrophic collapse of United States society as depicted in the novel (and its replacement by multiple factions hostile to drug epidemics) would be pretty bad for them long-term.

** The book treats women in the United States military as new and dangerous trend. In truth experiments with service women began during the first world war and all branches were forced to allow women with equal benefits to serve in non-combat roles in 1972. The Air Force, which had been doing the same since '48, decided to just let women serve in combat roles in '76. There's always been some grumblings about things like different fitness standards between the sexes, but it's hardly the sort of 21st century PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad trendiness Lind thinks of it as. Part of this might have to deal with the fact that while the first parts of the book were written in 1995 (see here https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1995/04/30/understanding-oklahoma/a03eb6e2-14df-434a-b6cb-d355aaf5f587/), but the book wasn’t released until 2014.

** The book treats women in the United States military as new and dangerous trend. In truth experiments with service women began during the first world war and all branches were forced to allow women with equal benefits to serve in non-combat roles in 1972. The Air Force, which had been doing the same since '48, decided to just let women serve in combat roles in '76. There's always been some grumblings about things like different fitness standards between the sexes, but it's hardly the sort of 21st century PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad trendiness Lind thinks of it as. Part of this might have to deal with the fact that while the first parts of the book were written in 1995 (see here https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1995/04/30/understanding-oklahoma/a03eb6e2-14df-434a-b6cb-d355aaf5f587/), the book wasn’t released until 2014.

** Speaking of T-34s, some of those were crewed by women, a famous one being [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariya_Oktyabrskaya Mariya Oktyabrskaya]]. The Soviets also fielded female snipers, pilots[[note]]Including the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches 588th/46th Bomber Regiment]], a.k.a. the Night Witches from Music/{{Sabaton}}'s [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7NSUFDHFgg song of same name]], a raider group that used low-tech biplanes that ought to fit right into Retroculture if they hadn't been flown by women[[/note]], political officers, and even command-level officers in a couple cases.
** The book treats women in the United States military as new and dangerous trend. In truth experiments with service women began during the first world war and all branches were forced to allow women with equal benefits to serve in non-combat roles in 1972. The Air Force, which had been doing the same since '48, decided to just let women serve in combat roles in '76. There's always been some grumblings about things like different fitness standards between the sexes, but it's hardly the sort of 21st century PoliticalCorrectnessGoneMad trendiness Lind thinks of it as.

** Another somewhat widespread misconception is that Rumford somehow rudely disrupts the Marines' remembrance ceremony in the (in)famous "No woman fought on Iwo Jima" sequence early in the book. What he actually does is in fact the exact opposite: he simply speaks the woman's assigned line honoring the fallen at Iwo Jima before she can, thus leaving it up to his superiors whether ''they'' want to interrupt things to push the pro-feminist point, or just carry on seamlessly as though nothing happened. (As it goes, they opt for the latter, although Rumford is taken to task for his glibness later on.) This is still not very respectful to the woman, of course, but nothing like the disaster that ruining the occasion for everyone with some public tantrum would have been.

** A smaller little screw up also occurs early on, where Rumford complains that he can't use some nearby wetland for farming. Considering the types of crops he was growing, a wetland would've been a terrible place to farm, as it would've been a perfect breeding ground for his crops to be infected. And this is without getting into what would happen to his farm if it flooded.

* ShipToShipCombat: Vicbourne (the implied romantic feelings between Victoria and Lord Melbourne - acknowledged by the series' creator herself as intended) vs. Vicbert (Victoria and Albert). Though many fans accept how history plays out, some fans prefer Vicbourne over Vicbert, while others either have a romantic preference for Victoria and Albert, or object to the Vicbourne concept on the claim that history does not support it and/or that it romanticizes a relationship between a teenage girl and a man who in real life was a pedophile (though this is not brought up in the series).

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: [[AmazonBrigade Azania]] [[DoesNotLikeMen is]] [[{{Gendercide}} genocidal]], [[AnimalWrongsGroup Paleopitus]] [[AGodAmI is crazy]], [[EvilLuddite Cascadia]] [[HorrorHippies is murderous]], the [[DirtyCommies Marxists]] are cruel, [[TotalitarianGangsterism the Aztecs]] ''[[IAmAHumanitarian eat people]]'', the [[GodwinsLaw Nazis]], are, well, ''Nazis'', and the [[TheTheocracy Christian]] [[ChurchMilitant Marines]] -- the ''good guys'' -- are [[AngryWhiteMan violently racist]], [[StayInTheKitchen sexist]] and [[HeteronormativeCrusader homophobic]] {{Right Wing Militia Fanatic}}s whose solution to black gangs rioting in Atlanta is to [[NukeEm nuke]] [[DisproportionateRetribution the]] [[MoralEventHorizon city]] -- oh, and they find themselves to be NotSoDifferent from the Nazis when representatives of both meet to talk. Eventually the Christian Marines win and bring about in much of North America a new Retroculture regime -- that resembles [[UsefulNotes/TheApartheidEra Apartheid-times South Africa]] more than anything, with a particular emphasis on "voluntary" exile of African-Americans to the countryside settlements (with the exception of a hand-picked few "useful professionals"), -- and other analogous movements do the same throughout most of the world. So... [[SarcasmMode Yaaaaaaaaay?]]

** The Confederation can be seen as an incredibly hardline authoritarian regime rather than a "paragon" of Americanism and Western Civilization. The same applies to the individual characters, such as Kraft and Rumford himself. It is also common for some to believe they are actually a vassal of Russia, given what a huge role it played in granting it independence.

** The [[DesignatedHero Northern Confederacy itself]] crosses the line with the murder of the so-called "Cultural Marxist" professors at Dartmouth on live television.

** Speaking of T-34s, some of those were crewed by women, one famous one being [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariya_Oktyabrskaya Mariya Oktyabrskaya]]. The Soviets also fielded female snipers, pilots[[note]]Including the [[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches 588th/46th Bomber Regiment]], a.k.a. the Night Witches from Music/{{Sabaton}}'s [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7NSUFDHFgg song of same name]], a raider group that used low-tech biplanes that ought to fit right into Retroculture if they hadn't been flown by women[[/note]], political officers, and even command-level officers in a couple cases.

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: [[AmazonBrigade Azania]] [[{{Gendercide}} is genocidal]], [[AnimalWrongsGroup Paleopitus]] is crazy, [[EvilLuddite Cascadia]] is murderous, the [[DirtyCommies Marxists]] are cruel, the [[IAmAHumanitarian Aztecs]] ''eat people'', the [[GodwinsLaw Nazis]], are, well, ''Nazis'', and [[TheTheocracy the Christian Marines]] -- the ''good guys'' -- are violently racist, sexist and homophobic {{Right Wing Militia Fanatic}}s whose solution to black gangs rioting in Atlanta is to [[NukeEm nuke]] [[DisproportionateRetribution the]] [[MoralEventHorizon city]] -- oh, and they find themselves to be NotSoDifferent from the Nazis when representatives of both meet to talk. Eventually the Christian Marines win and bring about in much of North America a new Retroculture regime -- that resembles [[UsefulNotes/TheApartheidEra Apartheid-times South Africa]] more than anything, with a particular emphasis on "voluntary" exile of African-Americans to the countryside settlements (with the exception of a hand-picked few "useful professionals"), -- and other analogous movements do the same throughout most of the world. So... [[SarcasmMode Yaaaaaaaaay?]]

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: [[AmazonBrigade Azania]] is genocidal, [[AnimalWrongsGroup Paleopitus]] is crazy, [[EvilLuddite Cascadia]] is murderous, the [[DirtyCommies Marxists]] are cruel, the [[IAmAHumanitarian Aztecs]] ''eat people'', the [[GodwinsLaw Nazis]], are, well, ''Nazis'', and [[TheTheocracy the Christian Marines]] -- the ''good guys'' -- are violently racist, sexist and homophobic {{Right Wing Militia Fanatic}}s whose solution to black gangs rioting in Atlanta is to [[NukeEm nuke]] [[DisproportionateRetribution the]] [[MoralEventHorizon city]] -- oh, and they find themselves to be NotSoDifferent from the Nazis when representatives of both meet to talk. Eventually the Christian Marines win and bring about in much of North America a new Retroculture regime -- that resembles UsefulNotes/{{Apartheid}}-era South Africa more than anything, with a particular emphasis on "voluntary" exile of African-Americans to the countryside settlements (with the exception of a hand-picked few "useful professionals"), -- and other analogous movements do the same throughout most of the world. So... [[SarcasmMode Yaaaaaaaaay?]]

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: [[AmazonBrigade Azania]] is genocidal, [[AnimalWrongsGroup Paleopitus]] is crazy, [[EvilLuddite Cascadia]] is murderous, the [[DirtyCommies Marxists]] are cruel, the [[IAmAHumanitarian Aztecs]] ''eat people'', the [[GodwinsLaw Nazis]], are, well, ''Nazis'', and [[TheTheocracy the Christian Marines]] -- the ''good guys'' -- are violently racist, sexist and homophobic {{Right Wing Militia Fanatic}}s whose solution to black gangs rioting in Atlanta is to [[NukeEm nuke]] [[DisproportionateRetribution the]] [[MoralEventHorizon city]] -- oh, and they find themselves to be NotSoDifferent from the Nazis when representatives of both meet to talk. Eventually the Christian Marines win and bring about a new Retroculture regime in much of North America, and other analogous movements do the same throughout most of the world. So...[[SarcasmMode Yaaaaaaaaay?]]

* SocietyMarchesOn: Thoroughly [[AvertedTrope averted]] as the narrative, the protagonist, and the author all categorically deny the idea of societal progress. Rumford is as happy to crack dated jokes about the Irish as he is to sneer at dark-skinned "orcs." At least one troper had to look up the phrase "high yellow" after it appeared multiple times in this book; it is an archaic, and now offensive, term for a very light-skinned black or mixed-race person.

** The [[DesignatedHero Northern Confederacy itself]] crosses this several times over, arguably starting with the murder of the so-called "Cultural Marxist" professors at Dartmouth on live television.

** The sheer insanity of the caricatures of leftists is mind bogglingly hard to take seriously. For example, the black Secretary of Defense makes a big speech about how only black men are warriors, at one point saying George Patton got his famous pistols from his black grandfather, who in turn stole them from Simon Legree. Yes, [[Literature/UncleTomsCabin that Simon Legree.]]

** The book repeatedly mocks the Azanians for essentially being woman pilots and repeatedly asserts that men can fly so much better as to make up for the huge technology gap between the two groups. This is probably because woman could only be pilots at the time the novel was written, but by then it also been proven that woman could serve effectively (and with few complications) as combat pilots. For those familiar with the modern US Air-force to any degree the idea in the book empirically outdated and laughably so.

[[folder: The Alternative History Novel]]

* CrazyAwesome: The Northern Confederation and its allies. Due to their out-there reactionary ideology, they will not accept modern technology like computers and drones, but fight with light infantry and [[SchizoTech a hodgepodge of equipment from every era from World War I to the Gulf War]], as well as insane WeirdScience Dieselpunkish tech their own mad scientists dream up. They also use [[BlingOfWar outlandish military uniforms]] of every description, derived from every country and era from the Napoleonic Wars onward, with doughboys fighting right next to dragoons with plumed helmets and neo-Prussians in Pickelhauben. Furthermore, their craziness also ''works'', since the weird tactics they implement [[ConfusionFu are never anticipated]] by their enemies, and their massively schizoid tech mix is just about CrazyEnoughToWork versus enemies optimized for modern high-tech warfare.

* FamilyUnfriendlyAesop: Virtually every arc/chapter has its own, from not trusting academics or foreign nationals, to feminism and environmentalism as inherently self-destructing, delusional ideologies, to fixing crime by hanging for first offenses.

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: [[AmazonBrigade Azania]] is genocidal, [[AnimalWrongsGroup Paleopitus]] is crazy, [[EvilLuddite Cascadia]] is murderous, the [[DirtyCommies Marxists]] are cruel, the [[IAmAHumanitarian Aztecs]] ''eat people'', the [[GodwinsLaw Nazis]], are, well, ''Nazis'', and the ''good guys'' are violently racist, sexist and homophobic {{Right Wing Militia Fanatic}}s whose solution to black gangs rioting in Atlanta is to [[NukeEm nuke]] [[DisproportionateRetribution the]] [[MoralEventHorizon city.]] Eventually the Christian Marines win and bring about a new Retroculture regime in much of North America, and other analogous movements do the same throughout most of the world. So...[[SarcasmMode Yaaaaaaaaay?]]

* EightDeadlyWords: It's a bit [[DarknessInducedAudienceApathy difficult to get emotionally invested]] when the ''nicest'' faction other than the protagonists are literal Nazis, and the protagonists themselves are aggressively theocratic, anti-intellectual, racist, homophobic [[StayInTheKitchen chauvinists]] whose literal first action in the book is [[BurnTheWitch burning a woman alive for refusing to renounce her faith.]] Note that Lind quite clearly intends for the executioners to be seen as [[DesignatedHero the good guys.]]

** The main storyline begins when Rumford blows up his career in the Marines and becomes a far-right militant ''solely'' because he was outraged that [[FelonyMisdemeanor a female Marine said the words "Iwo Jima" in a memorial service for those who fell in that battle]] - he felt a woman giving such a speech was disrespectful because women did not then (and [[StayInTheKitchen should not now]] according to him) serve in the Marines, an objection he voiced by [[{{Hypocrite}} interrupting the memorial service]]. It comes off as a massive, incredibly disproportionate hissy fit over a minor dispute in which he was clearly in the wrong, making him look like a clown rather than a brave man standing up for his beliefs. The sheer weirdness of the whole thing led to a MemeticMutation on ''Website/Spacebattles.com'' about how Rumford believes that women are ''physically unable'' to say the words "Iwo Jima."