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Men's Right's Activists (the acronym) is a very specific movement. General activists for men's rights often go by different terms, to distance themselves. And I'll leave it at that.
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* DontShootTheMessage: While many Internet hate-groups have polluted the term and find it a convenient cover and smokescreen for harassment campaigns and blatant misogyny, Men's Rights Activists do exist and are trying to solve real, legitimate problems. Whether or not the movie does a good job of communicating the difference is up for debate.
to:
* DontShootTheMessage: While many Internet hate-groups have polluted the term and find it a convenient cover and smokescreen for harassment campaigns and blatant misogyny, Men's Rights Activists activists for men's rights do exist and are trying to solve real, legitimate problems. Whether or not the movie does a good job of communicating the difference is up for debate.
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None
Added DiffLines:
* DontShootTheMessage: While many Internet hate-groups have polluted the term and find it a convenient cover and smokescreen for harassment campaigns and blatant misogyny, Men's Rights Activists do exist and are trying to solve real, legitimate problems. Whether or not the movie does a good job of communicating the difference is up for debate.
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Also, not YMMV.
Deleted line(s) 1 (click to see context) :
* DontShootTheMessage: While the Men's Rights Movement is more controversial than feminism, and the film's production values have been criticised, there ''are'' also grievances and double-standards for men.
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Also, by definition real-life characters can't be strawmen, and even if they could this is shoehorning. And Overshadowed By Controversy is not a good use of the trope, since the film's subject matter is not only inherently controversial, but the primary reason it's famous.
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* OvershadowedByControversy: While sincere and even-handed, this is a very polarizing movie, especially among radical feminists who don't like it for giving a voice to their "opponents" and seeing Cassie Jaye as a CategoryTraitor since Jaye is a women and was an active supporter of feminism until she researched this film. The released film strove to present an even-handed exploration of the Men's Rights Movement, yet had quickly turned into a polemic debate over gender politics, freedom of speech, gender-based double standards, and the merits and flaws of both movements. Though, perhaps, provoking open discussion is exactly what the film should be trying to do.
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* StrawmanHasAPoint: In-production variation. Cassie originally planned to criticize the Men's Rights Movement as a hate group. She then learned more about their causes and their history, making her believe there is value in true MRA.
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- sigh* Man, this is a good reminder that he was not very good at English... And Critical Backlash is a blatant shoehorn.
Deleted line(s) 1 (click to see context) :
* CriticalBacklash: This film attracted much criticism from various outlets. However, it does have a few fanbases including real film fanatics, and the obvious Men's Rights supporters.
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* InternetBackdraft: The factions of the internet which hold the radical feminists decried the existence of the film, calling it propaganda.
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* InternetBackdraft: The factions of the internet which hold the radical Various feminists decried are, naturally, unhappy with the existence of film for failing to separate the film, calling legitimate "men's rights" movements from the many, many hate-mobs that find it propaganda.a convenient smokescreen for the worst sort of misogyny.
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Removing Values Dissonance and Values Resonance because the fundamental strength of those tropes is based on differences in community based on time or distance, not ideology
Deleted line(s) 9,13 (click to see context) :
* ValuesDissonance: The film discusses contentious subjects in then-current politics. Some of these do go against popular opinion, notably:
** The activists suggest that many rape accusations from women are false and that much the media downplays the figure of female-on-male rape cases. However, most courts and accurate news sources do attest to a majority of rapes both reported and predicted being perpetrated by men in part due to a man being forced to penetrate a woman not being legally counted as rape, as well as popular culture aiming to tone down narratives on false rape accusations in hopes that it will not deter women from coming forward.
** There is also the discussion over whether men should pay child support if he is estranged from the child (when the mother gets to spend time with them) -- this may be more typically seen as besides the point of the argument, that whether or not you get to see the child you are the cause of it and a child is not cheap so that the woman should not have to pay for it alone. This, of course, not being in the alleged cases of women deliberately getting pregnant to [[TheBabyTrap trap men into staying with them or for child support]], where the debate is much more grey. If neither of you planned for the baby, or you did but then the man was cut out, it is widely accepted that the man should provide financial support.
** The view that even if men are correct in their jobs being more dangerous, for example, that they do not have to take these jobs but at least have the opportunity, whereas women have a space to complain in that they rarely get offered the dangerous jobs because of masculine bias even if they want them, which is the real issue.
* ValuesResonance: People who are intrigued may go into the film with, like Jaye, a distaste for Men's Rights Activism. However, some of the issues brought up are closer to the mainstream than may be thought, though with a slant that may be unfavorable. It is positive to bring up the rarely-mentioned until recently issue of men being raped and abused. These are often included in intersectional feminism, also.
** The activists suggest that many rape accusations from women are false and that much the media downplays the figure of female-on-male rape cases. However, most courts and accurate news sources do attest to a majority of rapes both reported and predicted being perpetrated by men in part due to a man being forced to penetrate a woman not being legally counted as rape, as well as popular culture aiming to tone down narratives on false rape accusations in hopes that it will not deter women from coming forward.
** There is also the discussion over whether men should pay child support if he is estranged from the child (when the mother gets to spend time with them) -- this may be more typically seen as besides the point of the argument, that whether or not you get to see the child you are the cause of it and a child is not cheap so that the woman should not have to pay for it alone. This, of course, not being in the alleged cases of women deliberately getting pregnant to [[TheBabyTrap trap men into staying with them or for child support]], where the debate is much more grey. If neither of you planned for the baby, or you did but then the man was cut out, it is widely accepted that the man should provide financial support.
** The view that even if men are correct in their jobs being more dangerous, for example, that they do not have to take these jobs but at least have the opportunity, whereas women have a space to complain in that they rarely get offered the dangerous jobs because of masculine bias even if they want them, which is the real issue.
* ValuesResonance: People who are intrigued may go into the film with, like Jaye, a distaste for Men's Rights Activism. However, some of the issues brought up are closer to the mainstream than may be thought, though with a slant that may be unfavorable. It is positive to bring up the rarely-mentioned until recently issue of men being raped and abused. These are often included in intersectional feminism, also.
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Periphery Demographic os for things that people outside the target audience do enjoy, while the examples present it as something they should enjoy without offering any evidence/explanation for either group actujally enjoying it. At least, according to my reading. Restore and talk page it if you disagree.
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* PeripheryDemographic:
** Supposedly, MRA think the film will never appeal to liberals. Except, aren't liberals the ones who are open to hearing all points of view and wanting to gather as much information as possible to make an informed judgment? Proven by how the Guardian (the "millennials'" newspaper in the UK) [[https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/nov/11/cassie-jaye-red-pill-feminism-mens-rights published an article in 2015 about the upcoming film]] -- focused on the unfair criticism being received by Jaye before the movie was even released.
** Feminists. Yes, really -- why? True Men's Rights activism is virtually indistinguishable from true UsefulNotes/{{Feminism}}: gender equality is the aim, though coming from different sides (e.g. MRA for "men have crappy working conditions compared to women", Feminism for "women should be more easily accepted into the typically male dangerous jobs"). Though there is room for disagreement/controversy as MRA takes more the view that women are fine where they stand and men should be placed in the same position (i.e. women have it ''simple'', men have it difficult), rather than men are fine where they stand and women should be placed in that position (i.e. men have options, women do not). Navigating the difference isn't easy, hence it is easy to see why the filmmaker instead of choosing to support both at the end of the movie only went with MRA.
** Supposedly, MRA think the film will never appeal to liberals. Except, aren't liberals the ones who are open to hearing all points of view and wanting to gather as much information as possible to make an informed judgment? Proven by how the Guardian (the "millennials'" newspaper in the UK) [[https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/nov/11/cassie-jaye-red-pill-feminism-mens-rights published an article in 2015 about the upcoming film]] -- focused on the unfair criticism being received by Jaye before the movie was even released.
** Feminists. Yes, really -- why? True Men's Rights activism is virtually indistinguishable from true UsefulNotes/{{Feminism}}: gender equality is the aim, though coming from different sides (e.g. MRA for "men have crappy working conditions compared to women", Feminism for "women should be more easily accepted into the typically male dangerous jobs"). Though there is room for disagreement/controversy as MRA takes more the view that women are fine where they stand and men should be placed in the same position (i.e. women have it ''simple'', men have it difficult), rather than men are fine where they stand and women should be placed in that position (i.e. men have options, women do not). Navigating the difference isn't easy, hence it is easy to see why the filmmaker instead of choosing to support both at the end of the movie only went with MRA.
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It absolutely is relevant to why female-on-male rape cases is downplayed, since the vast majority of those cases involve a man being forced to penetrate.
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** The activists suggest that many rape accusations from women are false and that much the media downplays the figure of female-on-male rape cases. However, most courts and accurate news sources do attest to a majority of rapes both reported and predicted being perpetrated by men, as well as popular culture aiming to tone down narratives on false rape accusations in hopes that it will not deter women from coming forward.
to:
** The activists suggest that many rape accusations from women are false and that much the media downplays the figure of female-on-male rape cases. However, most courts and accurate news sources do attest to a majority of rapes both reported and predicted being perpetrated by men, men in part due to a man being forced to penetrate a woman not being legally counted as rape, as well as popular culture aiming to tone down narratives on false rape accusations in hopes that it will not deter women from coming forward.
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Unrelated to the point being made, and a gross oversimplification regardless.
Changed line(s) 13 (click to see context) from:
** The activists suggest that many rape accusations from women are false and that much the media downplays the figure of female-on-male rape cases. However, most courts and accurate news sources do attest to a majority of rapes both reported and predicted being perpetrated by men in part due to a man being forced to penetrate a woman not being legally counted as rape, as well as popular culture aiming to tone down narratives on false rape accusations in hopes that it will not deter women from coming forward.
to:
** The activists suggest that many rape accusations from women are false and that much the media downplays the figure of female-on-male rape cases. However, most courts and accurate news sources do attest to a majority of rapes both reported and predicted being perpetrated by men in part due to a man being forced to penetrate a woman not being legally counted as rape, men, as well as popular culture aiming to tone down narratives on false rape accusations in hopes that it will not deter women from coming forward.
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None
Changed line(s) 13 (click to see context) from:
** The activists suggest that many rape accusations from women are false and that much the media downplays the figure of female-on-male rape cases. However, most courts and accurate news sources do attest to a majority of rapes both reported and predicted being perpetrated by men, as well as popular culture aiming to tone down narratives on false rape accusations in hopes that it will not deter women from coming forward.
to:
** The activists suggest that many rape accusations from women are false and that much the media downplays the figure of female-on-male rape cases. However, most courts and accurate news sources do attest to a majority of rapes both reported and predicted being perpetrated by men, men in part due to a man being forced to penetrate a woman not being legally counted as rape, as well as popular culture aiming to tone down narratives on false rape accusations in hopes that it will not deter women from coming forward.
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The inversion of the trope "Germans Love David Hasslehoff" is either "Americans Hate Tingle" or "Banned In China". The Banned In China trope is listed in the trivia page, so I will add those facts there.
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* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: Inverted -- it is particularly disliked (by reviews and public reception) in Australia and Canada.
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None
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* GermansLoveDavidHasselhoff: Inverted -- it is particularly disliked (by reviews and public reception) in Australia and Canada.
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None
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* ValuesDissonance: The film discusses contentious subjects in then-current politics. Some of these do go against popular opinion, notably:
** The activists suggest that many rape accusations from women are false and that much the media downplays the figure of female-on-male rape cases. However, most courts and accurate news sources do attest to a majority of rapes both reported and predicted being perpetrated by men, as well as popular culture aiming to tone down narratives on false rape accusations in hopes that it will not deter women from coming forward.
** There is also the discussion over whether men should pay child support if he is estranged from the child (when the mother gets to spend time with them) -- this may be more typically seen as besides the point of the argument, that whether or not you get to see the child you are the cause of it and a child is not cheap so that the woman should not have to pay for it alone. This, of course, not being in the alleged cases of women deliberately getting pregnant to [[TheBabyTrap trap men into staying with them or for child support]], where the debate is much more grey. If neither of you planned for the baby, or you did but then the man was cut out, it is widely accepted that the man should provide financial support.
** The view that even if men are correct in their jobs being more dangerous, for example, that they do not have to take these jobs but at least have the opportunity, whereas women have a space to complain in that they rarely get offered the dangerous jobs because of masculine bias even if they want them, which is the real issue.
* ValuesResonance: People who are intrigued may go into the film with, like Jaye, a distaste for Men's Rights Activism. However, some of the issues brought up are closer to the mainstream than may be thought, though with a slant that may be unfavorable. It is positive to bring up the rarely-mentioned until recently issue of men being raped and abused. These are often included in intersectional feminism, also.
** The activists suggest that many rape accusations from women are false and that much the media downplays the figure of female-on-male rape cases. However, most courts and accurate news sources do attest to a majority of rapes both reported and predicted being perpetrated by men, as well as popular culture aiming to tone down narratives on false rape accusations in hopes that it will not deter women from coming forward.
** There is also the discussion over whether men should pay child support if he is estranged from the child (when the mother gets to spend time with them) -- this may be more typically seen as besides the point of the argument, that whether or not you get to see the child you are the cause of it and a child is not cheap so that the woman should not have to pay for it alone. This, of course, not being in the alleged cases of women deliberately getting pregnant to [[TheBabyTrap trap men into staying with them or for child support]], where the debate is much more grey. If neither of you planned for the baby, or you did but then the man was cut out, it is widely accepted that the man should provide financial support.
** The view that even if men are correct in their jobs being more dangerous, for example, that they do not have to take these jobs but at least have the opportunity, whereas women have a space to complain in that they rarely get offered the dangerous jobs because of masculine bias even if they want them, which is the real issue.
* ValuesResonance: People who are intrigued may go into the film with, like Jaye, a distaste for Men's Rights Activism. However, some of the issues brought up are closer to the mainstream than may be thought, though with a slant that may be unfavorable. It is positive to bring up the rarely-mentioned until recently issue of men being raped and abused. These are often included in intersectional feminism, also.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
** Feminists. Yes, really -- why? True Men's Rights activism is virtually indistinguishable from true UsefulNotes/{{Feminism}}: gender equality is the aim, though coming from different sides (e.g. MRA for "men have crappy working conditions compared to women", Feminism for "women should be more easily accepted into the typically male dangerous jobs").
to:
** Feminists. Yes, really -- why? True Men's Rights activism is virtually indistinguishable from true UsefulNotes/{{Feminism}}: gender equality is the aim, though coming from different sides (e.g. MRA for "men have crappy working conditions compared to women", Feminism for "women should be more easily accepted into the typically male dangerous jobs"). Though there is room for disagreement/controversy as MRA takes more the view that women are fine where they stand and men should be placed in the same position (i.e. women have it ''simple'', men have it difficult), rather than men are fine where they stand and women should be placed in that position (i.e. men have options, women do not). Navigating the difference isn't easy, hence it is easy to see why the filmmaker instead of choosing to support both at the end of the movie only went with MRA.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
* PeripheryDemographic: Supposedly, MRA think the film will never appeal to liberals. Except, aren't liberals the ones who are open to hearing all points of view and wanting to gather as much information as possible to make an informed judgment? Proven by how the Guardian (the "millennials'" newspaper in the UK) [[https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/nov/11/cassie-jaye-red-pill-feminism-mens-rights published an article in 2015 about the upcoming film]] -- focused on the unfair criticism being received by Jaye before the movie was even released.
to:
* PeripheryDemographic: PeripheryDemographic:
** Supposedly, MRA think the film will never appeal to liberals. Except, aren't liberals the ones who are open to hearing all points of view and wanting to gather as much information as possible to make an informed judgment? Proven by how the Guardian (the "millennials'" newspaper in the UK) [[https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/nov/11/cassie-jaye-red-pill-feminism-mens-rights published an article in 2015 about the upcoming film]] -- focused on the unfair criticism being received by Jaye before the movie was evenreleased.released.
** Feminists. Yes, really -- why? True Men's Rights activism is virtually indistinguishable from true UsefulNotes/{{Feminism}}: gender equality is the aim, though coming from different sides (e.g. MRA for "men have crappy working conditions compared to women", Feminism for "women should be more easily accepted into the typically male dangerous jobs").
** Supposedly, MRA think the film will never appeal to liberals. Except, aren't liberals the ones who are open to hearing all points of view and wanting to gather as much information as possible to make an informed judgment? Proven by how the Guardian (the "millennials'" newspaper in the UK) [[https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/nov/11/cassie-jaye-red-pill-feminism-mens-rights published an article in 2015 about the upcoming film]] -- focused on the unfair criticism being received by Jaye before the movie was even
** Feminists. Yes, really -- why? True Men's Rights activism is virtually indistinguishable from true UsefulNotes/{{Feminism}}: gender equality is the aim, though coming from different sides (e.g. MRA for "men have crappy working conditions compared to women", Feminism for "women should be more easily accepted into the typically male dangerous jobs").
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None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* DontShootTheMessage: While the Men's Rights Movement is more controversial than feminism, and the film's production values have been criticised, there are also grievances and double-standards for men.
to:
* DontShootTheMessage: While the Men's Rights Movement is more controversial than feminism, and the film's production values have been criticised, there are ''are'' also grievances and double-standards for men.
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None
Changed line(s) 4 (click to see context) from:
* OvershadowedByControversy: While sincere and even-handed, this is a very polarizing movie, especially among radical feminists who don't like it for giving a voice to their opponents and seeing Cassie Jaye as a CategoryTraitor since Jaye is a women and was an active supporter of feminism until she researched this film. The released film strove to present an even-handed exploration of the Men's Rights Movement, yet had quickly turned into a polemic debate over gender politics, freedom of speech, gender-based double standards, and the merits and flaws of both movements. Though, perhaps, provoking open discussion is exactly what the film should be trying to do.
to:
* OvershadowedByControversy: While sincere and even-handed, this is a very polarizing movie, especially among radical feminists who don't like it for giving a voice to their opponents "opponents" and seeing Cassie Jaye as a CategoryTraitor since Jaye is a women and was an active supporter of feminism until she researched this film. The released film strove to present an even-handed exploration of the Men's Rights Movement, yet had quickly turned into a polemic debate over gender politics, freedom of speech, gender-based double standards, and the merits and flaws of both movements. Though, perhaps, provoking open discussion is exactly what the film should be trying to do.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* InternetBackdraft: The factions of the internet which hold the radical feminists decried the existence of the film, calling it propaganda.
Added DiffLines:
* PeripheryDemographic: Supposedly, MRA think the film will never appeal to liberals. Except, aren't liberals the ones who are open to hearing all points of view and wanting to gather as much information as possible to make an informed judgment? Proven by how the Guardian (the "millennials'" newspaper in the UK) [[https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/nov/11/cassie-jaye-red-pill-feminism-mens-rights published an article in 2015 about the upcoming film]] -- focused on the unfair criticism being received by Jaye before the movie was even released.
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%%* PeripheryHatedom: Question on potentially writing up an entry for this for the PH page; discussion?
%%
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%%* PeripheryHatedom: Question on potentially writing up an entry for this for the PH page; discussion?
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removed some entries for just not being examples of those tropes in any way, shape, or form, with the text just being rants about how sad it is to be an oppressed man
Changed line(s) 1,8 (click to see context) from:
* CriticalBacklash: This film attracted much criticism from various outlets. However, it does have a few fanbases including (but not limited to) filmgoers, men's rights supporters and egalitarians.
* DesignatedVillain: The movie ultimately makes the case that this is the position of the Men's Rights Movement in society at large, especially in the media. [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement That is all we shall say about it here]].
* DontShootTheMessage: While the Men's Rights Movement has proven quite controversial, and the film's production values have been criticised, there are legitimate grievances and double-standards discriminating against men.
* HarsherInHindsight: One of the ideas the film posits is that feminism has gone too far and now men are becoming the oppressed gender. Since then, the film attracted a lot of criticism from feminists, Jaye herself has come under fire for this film in reviews and interviews, and the double standards against men in the laws of Anglosphere countries (with exceptions such as India) have mostly either gone unaddressed or become worse.
** One example was the Cassie Jaye interview on the Australian TV show "Sunrise" on Channel 7. The newsanchors [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EQEuBxesC0 tried to do a smear tactic by attempting to (unsuccessfully) misrepresent her and her work]] (the newanchors even admitted during the interview that [[CriticalResearchFailure they didn't even watch the film]] and [[BlatantLies claimed it wouldn't work on google, then switched gears and said they tried and failed to access it]] when Cassie pointed out she had emailed it to them a month in advance of the interview).
** It happened again with another Cassie Jaye interview on ''another'' Australian TV Show, "The Project", from Channel 10 where [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vFpbjTaEYs the panel of hosts also jumped on the smear campaign bandwagon and also tried to misrepresent Cassie Jaye and her work]].
* OvershadowedByControversy: While sincere and even-handed, this is a very polarizing movie, especially among feminists who don't like it for giving a voice to their opponents and seeing Cassie Jaye as a CategoryTraitor since Jaye was a former feminist until she was personally convinced by the research she did for this film. The released film strove to present an even-handed exploration of the Men's Rights Movement, yet had quickly turned into a BaseBreaker debating gender politics, freedom of speech, gender-based double standards, and the merits and flaws of both movements.
* StrawmanHasAPoint: In-production variation. Cassie originally planned to criticize the Men's Rights Movement as a hate group. She then learned more about their causes and their history, making her believe that they are largely correct.
* DesignatedVillain: The movie ultimately makes the case that this is the position of the Men's Rights Movement in society at large, especially in the media. [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement That is all we shall say about it here]].
* DontShootTheMessage: While the Men's Rights Movement has proven quite controversial, and the film's production values have been criticised, there are legitimate grievances and double-standards discriminating against men.
* HarsherInHindsight: One of the ideas the film posits is that feminism has gone too far and now men are becoming the oppressed gender. Since then, the film attracted a lot of criticism from feminists, Jaye herself has come under fire for this film in reviews and interviews, and the double standards against men in the laws of Anglosphere countries (with exceptions such as India) have mostly either gone unaddressed or become worse.
** One example was the Cassie Jaye interview on the Australian TV show "Sunrise" on Channel 7. The newsanchors [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EQEuBxesC0 tried to do a smear tactic by attempting to (unsuccessfully) misrepresent her and her work]] (the newanchors even admitted during the interview that [[CriticalResearchFailure they didn't even watch the film]] and [[BlatantLies claimed it wouldn't work on google, then switched gears and said they tried and failed to access it]] when Cassie pointed out she had emailed it to them a month in advance of the interview).
** It happened again with another Cassie Jaye interview on ''another'' Australian TV Show, "The Project", from Channel 10 where [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vFpbjTaEYs the panel of hosts also jumped on the smear campaign bandwagon and also tried to misrepresent Cassie Jaye and her work]].
* OvershadowedByControversy: While sincere and even-handed, this is a very polarizing movie, especially among feminists who don't like it for giving a voice to their opponents and seeing Cassie Jaye as a CategoryTraitor since Jaye was a former feminist until she was personally convinced by the research she did for this film. The released film strove to present an even-handed exploration of the Men's Rights Movement, yet had quickly turned into a BaseBreaker debating gender politics, freedom of speech, gender-based double standards, and the merits and flaws of both movements.
* StrawmanHasAPoint: In-production variation. Cassie originally planned to criticize the Men's Rights Movement as a hate group. She then learned more about their causes and their history, making her believe that they are largely correct.
to:
* CriticalBacklash: This film attracted much criticism from various outlets. However, it does have a few fanbases including (but not limited to) filmgoers, men's rights supporters real film fanatics, and egalitarians.the obvious Men's Rights supporters.
*DesignatedVillain: The movie ultimately makes the case that this is the position of DontShootTheMessage: While the Men's Rights Movement in society at large, is more controversial than feminism, and the film's production values have been criticised, there are also grievances and double-standards for men.
* OvershadowedByControversy: While sincere and even-handed, this is a very polarizing movie, especiallyin among radical feminists who don't like it for giving a voice to their opponents and seeing Cassie Jaye as a CategoryTraitor since Jaye is a women and was an active supporter of feminism until she researched this film. The released film strove to present an even-handed exploration of the media. [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement That Men's Rights Movement, yet had quickly turned into a polemic debate over gender politics, freedom of speech, gender-based double standards, and the merits and flaws of both movements. Though, perhaps, provoking open discussion is all we shall say about it here]].exactly what the film should be trying to do.
* DontShootTheMessage: While the Men's Rights Movement has proven quite controversial, and the film's production values have been criticised, there are legitimate grievances and double-standards discriminating against men.
* HarsherInHindsight: One of the ideas the film posits is that feminism has gone too far and now men are becoming the oppressed gender. Since then, the film attracted a lot of criticism from feminists, Jaye herself has come under fire for this film in reviews and interviews, and the double standards against men in the laws of Anglosphere countries (with exceptions such as India) have mostly either gone unaddressed or become worse.
** One example was the Cassie Jaye interview on the Australian TV show "Sunrise" on Channel 7. The newsanchors [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EQEuBxesC0 tried to do a smear tactic by attempting to (unsuccessfully) misrepresent her and her work]] (the newanchors even admitted during the interview that [[CriticalResearchFailure they didn't even watch the film]] and [[BlatantLies claimed it wouldn't work on google, then switched gears and said they tried and failed to access it]] when Cassie pointed out she had emailed it to them a month in advance of the interview).
** It happened again with another Cassie Jaye interview on ''another'' Australian TV Show, "The Project", from Channel 10 where [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vFpbjTaEYs the panel of hosts also jumped on the smear campaign bandwagon and also tried to misrepresent Cassie Jaye and her work]].
* OvershadowedByControversy: While sincere and even-handed, this is a very polarizing movie, especially among feminists who don't like it for giving a voice to their opponents and seeing Cassie Jaye as a CategoryTraitor since Jaye was a former feminist until she was personally convinced by the research she did for this film. The released film strove to present an even-handed exploration of the Men's Rights Movement, yet had quickly turned into a BaseBreaker debating gender politics, freedom of speech, gender-based double standards, and the merits and flaws of both movements.
* StrawmanHasAPoint: In-production variation. Cassie originally planned to criticize the Men's Rights Movement as a hate group. She then learned more about their causes and their history, making her believe that they are largely correct.there is value in true MRA.
----
*
* OvershadowedByControversy: While sincere and even-handed, this is a very polarizing movie, especially
* HarsherInHindsight: One of the ideas the film posits is that feminism has gone too far and now men are becoming the oppressed gender. Since then, the film attracted a lot of criticism from feminists, Jaye herself has come under fire for this film in reviews and interviews, and the double standards against men in the laws of Anglosphere countries (with exceptions such as India) have mostly either gone unaddressed or become worse.
** One example was the Cassie Jaye interview on the Australian TV show "Sunrise" on Channel 7. The newsanchors [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EQEuBxesC0 tried to do a smear tactic by attempting to (unsuccessfully) misrepresent her and her work]] (the newanchors even admitted during the interview that [[CriticalResearchFailure they didn't even watch the film]] and [[BlatantLies claimed it wouldn't work on google, then switched gears and said they tried and failed to access it]] when Cassie pointed out she had emailed it to them a month in advance of the interview).
** It happened again with another Cassie Jaye interview on ''another'' Australian TV Show, "The Project", from Channel 10 where [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vFpbjTaEYs the panel of hosts also jumped on the smear campaign bandwagon and also tried to misrepresent Cassie Jaye and her work]].
* OvershadowedByControversy: While sincere and even-handed, this is a very polarizing movie, especially among feminists who don't like it for giving a voice to their opponents and seeing Cassie Jaye as a CategoryTraitor since Jaye was a former feminist until she was personally convinced by the research she did for this film. The released film strove to present an even-handed exploration of the Men's Rights Movement, yet had quickly turned into a BaseBreaker debating gender politics, freedom of speech, gender-based double standards, and the merits and flaws of both movements.
----
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None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
* DontShootTheMessage: While the Men's Rights Movement has proven quite controversial, and the film's production values have been criticised, there are legitimate grievances and double-standards the discriminate against men.
to:
* DontShootTheMessage: While the Men's Rights Movement has proven quite controversial, and the film's production values have been criticised, there are legitimate grievances and double-standards the discriminate discriminating against men.
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Flagrant misuse of Values Resonance.
Changed line(s) 8,9 (click to see context) from:
* StrawmanHasAPoint: In-production variation. Cassie originally planned to criticize the Men's Rights Movement as a hate group. She then learned more about their causes and their history, making her believe that they are largely correct.
* ValuesResonance: The message remains relevant in TheNewTens, with increased focus on gender issues and equality along with several related social movements ([[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement many of them controversial]]). There is also the continuing trouble passing laws that are fair to both genders, particularly in divorce court, [[DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale sexually-based offences]] and the handling of domestic abuse.
* ValuesResonance: The message remains relevant in TheNewTens, with increased focus on gender issues and equality along with several related social movements ([[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement many of them controversial]]). There is also the continuing trouble passing laws that are fair to both genders, particularly in divorce court, [[DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale sexually-based offences]] and the handling of domestic abuse.
to:
* StrawmanHasAPoint: In-production variation. Cassie originally planned to criticize the Men's Rights Movement as a hate group. She then learned more about their causes and their history, making her believe that they are largely correct.
* ValuesResonance: The message remains relevant in TheNewTens, with increased focus on gender issues and equality along with several related social movements ([[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement many of them controversial]]). There is also the continuing trouble passing laws that are fair to both genders, particularly in divorce court, [[DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale sexually-based offences]] and the handling of domestic abuse.correct.
* ValuesResonance: The message remains relevant in TheNewTens, with increased focus on gender issues and equality along with several related social movements ([[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement many of them controversial]]). There is also the continuing trouble passing laws that are fair to both genders, particularly in divorce court, [[DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale sexually-based offences]] and the handling of domestic abuse.
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That's not what Broken Base is. By definition, people who don't like the film are not part of it's fanbase.
Deleted line(s) 1,2 (click to see context) :
* BrokenBase: [[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement A sometimes viciously divided one at that]].
** The film's audience is torn asunder by factions divided mostly by their own stances on gender politics. On one side you have a crowd hailing it as an overdue and even-handed representation of the struggles of men, more in the middle lauding it for its fair handling of the issue (while some don't care for its [[NoBudget low production values]]), and a few vocal factions on the other end claiming it's false and/or misogynist propaganda.
** The film's audience is torn asunder by factions divided mostly by their own stances on gender politics. On one side you have a crowd hailing it as an overdue and even-handed representation of the struggles of men, more in the middle lauding it for its fair handling of the issue (while some don't care for its [[NoBudget low production values]]), and a few vocal factions on the other end claiming it's false and/or misogynist propaganda.
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None
Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
** One example was the Cassie Jaye interview on the Australian TV show "Sunrise" on Channel 7. The newsanchors [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EQEuBxesC0 tried to do a smear tactic by attempting to (unsuccessfully) misrepresent her and her work]] (the newanchors even admitted during the interview that [[CriticalResearchFailure they didn't even watch the film]] and [[BlatantLies claimed they couldn't get access to it]], [[EpicFail then saying they tried and failed in the next sentence]] when Cassie pointed she emailed it to them a month in advance).
to:
** One example was the Cassie Jaye interview on the Australian TV show "Sunrise" on Channel 7. The newsanchors [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EQEuBxesC0 tried to do a smear tactic by attempting to (unsuccessfully) misrepresent her and her work]] (the newanchors even admitted during the interview that [[CriticalResearchFailure they didn't even watch the film]] and [[BlatantLies claimed they couldn't get access to it]], [[EpicFail it wouldn't work on google, then saying switched gears and said they tried and failed in the next sentence]] to access it]] when Cassie pointed out she had emailed it to them a month in advance).advance of the interview).
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None
Changed line(s) 6,7 (click to see context) from:
* HarsherInHindsight: One of the ideas the film posits is that feminism has gone too far and now men are becoming the oppressed gender. The film attracted a lot of criticism from feminists, Jaye herself has come under fire for this film during interviews and the double standards against men in the laws of Anglosphere countries (with exceptions such as India) have mostly either gone unaddressed or become worse.
** One example was the Cassie Jaye interview on the Australian TV show "Sunrise" on Channel 7. The newsanchors [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EQEuBxesC0 tried to do a smear tactic by attempting to (unsuccessfully) misrepresent her and her work]] (the newanchors even admitted during the interview that [[CriticalResearchFailure they didn't even watch the film]] and [[BlatantLies claimed they couldn't get access to it]] when Cassie later proved she emailed it to them a month in advance).
** One example was the Cassie Jaye interview on the Australian TV show "Sunrise" on Channel 7. The newsanchors [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EQEuBxesC0 tried to do a smear tactic by attempting to (unsuccessfully) misrepresent her and her work]] (the newanchors even admitted during the interview that [[CriticalResearchFailure they didn't even watch the film]] and [[BlatantLies claimed they couldn't get access to it]] when Cassie later proved she emailed it to them a month in advance).
to:
* HarsherInHindsight: One of the ideas the film posits is that feminism has gone too far and now men are becoming the oppressed gender. The Since then, the film attracted a lot of criticism from feminists, Jaye herself has come under fire for this film during interviews in reviews and interviews, and the double standards against men in the laws of Anglosphere countries (with exceptions such as India) have mostly either gone unaddressed or become worse.
** One example was the Cassie Jaye interview on the Australian TV show "Sunrise" on Channel 7. The newsanchors [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EQEuBxesC0 tried to do a smear tactic by attempting to (unsuccessfully) misrepresent her and her work]] (the newanchors even admitted during the interview that [[CriticalResearchFailure they didn't even watch the film]] and [[BlatantLies claimed they couldn't get access toit]] it]], [[EpicFail then saying they tried and failed in the next sentence]] when Cassie later proved pointed she emailed it to them a month in advance).
** One example was the Cassie Jaye interview on the Australian TV show "Sunrise" on Channel 7. The newsanchors [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EQEuBxesC0 tried to do a smear tactic by attempting to (unsuccessfully) misrepresent her and her work]] (the newanchors even admitted during the interview that [[CriticalResearchFailure they didn't even watch the film]] and [[BlatantLies claimed they couldn't get access to
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A little more information about both feminism and the men's rights movement.
Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
* OvershadowedByControversy: While sincere and even-handed, this is a very polarizing movie, especially among feminists who don't like it for giving a voice to their opponents and seeing Cassie Jaye as a CategoryTraitor since Jaye was a former feminist until she was personally convinced by the research she did for this film. The released film strove to present an even-handed exploration of the Men's Rights Movement, yet had quickly turned into a BaseBreaker debating gender politics, freedom of speech, gender-based double standards, and the merits of both movements.
to:
* OvershadowedByControversy: While sincere and even-handed, this is a very polarizing movie, especially among feminists who don't like it for giving a voice to their opponents and seeing Cassie Jaye as a CategoryTraitor since Jaye was a former feminist until she was personally convinced by the research she did for this film. The released film strove to present an even-handed exploration of the Men's Rights Movement, yet had quickly turned into a BaseBreaker debating gender politics, freedom of speech, gender-based double standards, and the merits and flaws of both movements.
Changed line(s) 11 (click to see context) from:
* ValuesResonance: The message remains relevant in TheNewTens, with increased focus on gender issues and equality along with several related social movements ([[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement many of them controversial]]). There is also the continuing trouble passing laws that are fair to both genders, particularly in divorce court, [[DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale sexually-based offences]] and the handling of domestic abuse.
to:
* ValuesResonance: The message remains relevant in TheNewTens, with increased focus on gender issues and equality along with several related social movements ([[RuleOfCautiousEditingJudgement many of them controversial]]). There is also the continuing trouble passing laws that are fair to both genders, particularly in divorce court, [[DoubleStandardRapeFemaleOnMale sexually-based offences]] and the handling of domestic abuse.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
* OvershadowedByControversy: While sincere and even-handed, this is a very polarizing movie, especially among feminists who don't like it for giving a voice to their opponents and seeing Cassie Jaye as a CategoryTraitor since Jaye was a former feminist until she was personally convinced by the research she did for this film. The released film is presented even-handed exploration of the Men's Rights Movement, yet had quickly turned into a BaseBreaker debating gender politics, freedom of speech, gender-based double standards, and the merits of both movements.
to:
* OvershadowedByControversy: While sincere and even-handed, this is a very polarizing movie, especially among feminists who don't like it for giving a voice to their opponents and seeing Cassie Jaye as a CategoryTraitor since Jaye was a former feminist until she was personally convinced by the research she did for this film. The released film is presented strove to present an even-handed exploration of the Men's Rights Movement, yet had quickly turned into a BaseBreaker debating gender politics, freedom of speech, gender-based double standards, and the merits of both movements.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Addendum on my previous edit reason; It is better to edit the wording if is too triggering; deleting the whole point is UNNECESSARY when it ties into another point below it.
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
** It happened again with another Australian TV Show, "The Project" from Channel 10, [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vFpbjTaEYs who also jumped on the smear campaign bandwagon and also tried to misrepresent Cassie Jaye and her work]].
to:
** It happened again with another Cassie Jaye interview on ''another'' Australian TV Show, "The Project" Project", from Channel 10, 10 where [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vFpbjTaEYs who the panel of hosts also jumped on the smear campaign bandwagon and also tried to misrepresent Cassie Jaye and her work]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
It is better to edit the wording if is too triggering; deleting the whole point is necessary when it ties into another point below it.
Added DiffLines:
** One example was the Cassie Jaye interview on the Australian TV show "Sunrise" on Channel 7. The newsanchors [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EQEuBxesC0 tried to do a smear tactic by attempting to (unsuccessfully) misrepresent her and her work]] (the newanchors even admitted during the interview that [[CriticalResearchFailure they didn't even watch the film]] and [[BlatantLies claimed they couldn't get access to it]] when Cassie later proved she emailed it to them a month in advance).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
The only complaints about Jaye's methods and questioning came either from feminists who disagreed for obvious reasons or people who thought the production values were amateurish.
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* OvershadowedByControversy: While sincere and even-handed, this is a very polarizing movie, especially among feminists who don't like it for giving a voice to their opponents and seeing Cassie Jaye as a CategoryTraitor since Jaye was a former feminist until she was personally convinced by the research she did for this film. The film purports to be an even-handed exploration of the Men's Rights Movement, yet had quickly turned into a BaseBreaker debating Jaye's methods and means of questioning, gender politics, freedom of speech, gender-based double standards, and the merits of both movements.
to:
* OvershadowedByControversy: While sincere and even-handed, this is a very polarizing movie, especially among feminists who don't like it for giving a voice to their opponents and seeing Cassie Jaye as a CategoryTraitor since Jaye was a former feminist until she was personally convinced by the research she did for this film. The released film purports to be an is presented even-handed exploration of the Men's Rights Movement, yet had quickly turned into a BaseBreaker debating Jaye's methods and means of questioning, gender politics, freedom of speech, gender-based double standards, and the merits of both movements.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
This is officially going too far past The Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment
Deleted line(s) 7 (click to see context) :
** One particularly egregious example was the Cassie Jaye interview on the Australian TV show "Sunrise" on Channel 7. The newsanchors [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EQEuBxesC0 tried to do a smear tactic by attempting to (unsuccessfully) make her look like a deceitful misogynist]] (yet the newanchors even admitted during the interview that [[CriticalResearchFailure they didn't even watch the film]] and [[BlatantLies claimed they couldn't get access to it]] when Cassie later proved she emailed it to them a month in advance). This created a large audience backlash against Channel 7 Studios, [[EpicFail which they responded to by planning to delete videos of the interview from their website]].
