Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Skunk Stripe is no longer a trope. Zero Context Examples and examples that do fit existing tropes will be deleted.
Changed line(s) 32 (click to see context) from:
* SelfFanservice: Fan artists ''love'' to draw him with a SkunkStripe in his hair despite it only appearing in a few arcs and having been forgotten in the New 52 era.
to:
* SelfFanservice: Fan artists ''love'' to draw him with a SkunkStripe streak in his hair despite it only appearing in a few arcs and having been forgotten in the New 52 era.
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None
Added line(s) 2 (click to see context) :
* AudienceAlienatingEra:
** Hey, remember the time Jason became a tentacle monster? [[FanonDiscontinuity Neither does anyone else]].
** His appearance in ''Battle For The Cowl'' as ''Gun Bats'' is regarded as one of his lowest moments by a lot of fans.[[note]]Contrary to popular belief, the story is not written by Grant Morrison, but rather Tony Daniel[[/note]]
** His decade-long tenure under Creator/ScottLobdell is this to a large amount of people.
** His portrayal in ''ComicBook/BatmanThreeJokers'' gets this treatment thanks to his [[{{Squick}} creepy and unhealthy]] one-sided infatuation [[NoYay with Barbara]] and many fans feel he experienced character regression.
** Hey, remember the time Jason became a tentacle monster? [[FanonDiscontinuity Neither does anyone else]].
** His appearance in ''Battle For The Cowl'' as ''Gun Bats'' is regarded as one of his lowest moments by a lot of fans.[[note]]Contrary to popular belief, the story is not written by Grant Morrison, but rather Tony Daniel[[/note]]
** His decade-long tenure under Creator/ScottLobdell is this to a large amount of people.
** His portrayal in ''ComicBook/BatmanThreeJokers'' gets this treatment thanks to his [[{{Squick}} creepy and unhealthy]] one-sided infatuation [[NoYay with Barbara]] and many fans feel he experienced character regression.
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* BrokenBase: Grant Morrison's direction for Jason Todd in [[ComicBook/GrantMorrisonsBatman Batman and Robin]] can be divisive. Some, particular newer readers who are familiar with Jason mostly through ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, don't like that he's a villain. Many others, however, consider it to be a unique and fresh direction that cleverly consolidates all of Jason's history into a single character arc, and makes him an interesting foil to Dick Grayson. A prolonged period of [[SeasonalRot poor-to-mediocre Jason Todd stories]] has left several fans wishing that Morrison's direction was followed up on.
to:
* BrokenBase: BrokenBase:
** Grant Morrison's direction for Jason Todd in [[ComicBook/GrantMorrisonsBatman Batman and Robin]] can be divisive. Some, particular newer readers who are familiar with Jason mostly through ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, don't like that he's a villain. Many others, however, consider it to be a unique and fresh direction that cleverly consolidates all of Jason's history into a single character arc, and makes him an interesting foil to Dick Grayson. A prolonged period of [[SeasonalRot poor-to-mediocre Jason Todd stories]] has left several fans wishing that Morrison's direction was followed upon.on.
** Between readers who prefer Scott Lobdell's version of Red Hood and those that prefer Jason under the pen of Morrison, Zdarsky or anyone other than Scott Lobdell. Since ''ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws'' and ''ComicBook/RedHoodArsenal'' ran for almost a cumulative decade, there are many fans who were introduced to the character through these runs and are dismissive of any other interpretation of the character that stray too far from it. Meanwhile, fans of other writers writing Red Hood stories tend to be dismissive of Lobdell's version because of his writing style and questionable choices in characterization.
** Grant Morrison's direction for Jason Todd in [[ComicBook/GrantMorrisonsBatman Batman and Robin]] can be divisive. Some, particular newer readers who are familiar with Jason mostly through ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, don't like that he's a villain. Many others, however, consider it to be a unique and fresh direction that cleverly consolidates all of Jason's history into a single character arc, and makes him an interesting foil to Dick Grayson. A prolonged period of [[SeasonalRot poor-to-mediocre Jason Todd stories]] has left several fans wishing that Morrison's direction was followed up
** Between readers who prefer Scott Lobdell's version of Red Hood and those that prefer Jason under the pen of Morrison, Zdarsky or anyone other than Scott Lobdell. Since ''ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws'' and ''ComicBook/RedHoodArsenal'' ran for almost a cumulative decade, there are many fans who were introduced to the character through these runs and are dismissive of any other interpretation of the character that stray too far from it. Meanwhile, fans of other writers writing Red Hood stories tend to be dismissive of Lobdell's version because of his writing style and questionable choices in characterization.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Replacing some tropes that were applicable but removed. Cleaning up tropes that were misused (Fandom Rivalry). If they have context or references and the trope isn't misused, then it's applicable on the YMMV page.
Added DiffLines:
* BrokenBase: Grant Morrison's direction for Jason Todd in [[ComicBook/GrantMorrisonsBatman Batman and Robin]] can be divisive. Some, particular newer readers who are familiar with Jason mostly through ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, don't like that he's a villain. Many others, however, consider it to be a unique and fresh direction that cleverly consolidates all of Jason's history into a single character arc, and makes him an interesting foil to Dick Grayson. A prolonged period of [[SeasonalRot poor-to-mediocre Jason Todd stories]] has left several fans wishing that Morrison's direction was followed up on.
Added DiffLines:
* FandomRivalry: A common occurence among Batfamily fans, especially among fans of individual Robins. Red Hood fans, in particular, have rivalries with Nightwing and Damian Wayne fans, even going as far as to review bomb their solo ongoings on review sites such as Comic Book Roundup.
Added DiffLines:
* MemeticMutation: "Red Hood fans hate good writing."[[labelnote:Explanation]]While Chip Zdarsky's ''Batman Urban Legends'' arc for ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier is widely praised, especially in comparison to [[DorkAge Scott Lobdell's mostly derided tenure on]] ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, some Lobell loyalists have vocally disparaged Zdarsky on Twitter, Comic Book Roundup, and Comic Book Resources forums for writing Jason as flawed and allegedly less capable in combat. This led to other DC fans [[https://i.imgflip.com/5hokpw.jpg mocking]] them and [[https://i.redd.it/med9fo7rsw371.jpg making]] [[https://i.imgur.com/rigsHfj.jpeg memes]] about them hating otherwise acclaimed works.[[/labelnote]]
Added DiffLines:
* RonTheDeathEater:
** Batman often receives this treatment from the fanbase due to the strict code of morality that he imposes on Jason and his lack of trust. Sometimes, the writers [[RunningTheAsylum get into it as well]] when writing from Jason's point of view, portraying Batman as a selfish {{Jerkass}}. Though at times, this gets {{Anvilicious}} to the point where Batman ends up coming off as UnintentionallySympathetic instead, thanks to Jason's status as a KarmaHoudini.
** Jason is also occasionally on the receiving end of this from writers and fans who would downplay his sympathetic qualities to make him far worse than he actually is (Grant Morrisson being a pretty well-known example). For the longest time, Jason as Robin was depicted as being more of a {{Jerkass}} than he actually was in order to make it seem like he was never worthy of being a Robin.
** Batman often receives this treatment from the fanbase due to the strict code of morality that he imposes on Jason and his lack of trust. Sometimes, the writers [[RunningTheAsylum get into it as well]] when writing from Jason's point of view, portraying Batman as a selfish {{Jerkass}}. Though at times, this gets {{Anvilicious}} to the point where Batman ends up coming off as UnintentionallySympathetic instead, thanks to Jason's status as a KarmaHoudini.
** Jason is also occasionally on the receiving end of this from writers and fans who would downplay his sympathetic qualities to make him far worse than he actually is (Grant Morrisson being a pretty well-known example). For the longest time, Jason as Robin was depicted as being more of a {{Jerkass}} than he actually was in order to make it seem like he was never worthy of being a Robin.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Removing edits by a ban evader.
Deleted line(s) 2 (click to see context) :
* BrokenBase: Grant Morrison's direction for Jason Todd in [[ComicBook/GrantMorrisonsBatman Batman and Robin]] can be divisive. Some, particular newer readers who are familiar with Jason mostly through ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, don't like that he's a villain. Many others, however, consider it to be a unique and fresh direction that cleverly consolidates all of Jason's history into a single character arc, and makes him an interesting foil to Dick Grayson. A prolonged period of [[SeasonalRot poor-to-mediocre Jason Todd stories]] has left several fans wishing that Morrison's direction was followed up on.
Deleted line(s) 5 (click to see context) :
* CharacterRerailment: As of ''ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier'' Jason is being written closer to his ComicBook/PostCrisis self, as a troubled and flawed anti-hero, instead of a [[GunNut gun-obsessed mystical assassin]].
Deleted line(s) 15 (click to see context) :
* MemeticMutation: "Red Hood fans hate good writing."[[labelnote:Explanation]]While Chip Zdarsky's ''Batman Urban Legends'' arc for ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier is widely praised, especially in comparison to [[DorkAge Scott Lobdell's mostly derided tenure on]] ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, some Lobell loyalists have vocally disparaged Zdarsky on Twitter, Comic Book Roundup, and Comic Book Resources forums for writing Jason as flawed and allegedly less capable in combat. This led to other DC fans [[https://i.imgflip.com/5hokpw.jpg mocking]] them and [[https://i.redd.it/med9fo7rsw371.jpg making]] [[https://i.imgur.com/rigsHfj.jpeg memes]] about them hating otherwise acclaimed works.[[/labelnote]]
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* MyRealDaddy: Although Jason Todd was created by Gerry Conway, Judd Winick set his status quo as the Red Hood and defined his character for the new millennium, including adaptations. Max Allan Collins is also responsible for creating his iconic origin, though he's not often credited as doing so.
to:
* MyRealDaddy: Although Jason Todd was created by Gerry Conway, Judd Winick set his status quo as the Red Hood and defined his character for the new millennium, including adaptations. Max Allan Collins is also responsible for creating his iconic origin, though he's not often credited as doing so.
Deleted line(s) 21,23 (click to see context) :
* RonTheDeathEater:
** Batman often receives this treatment from the fanbase due to the strict code of morality that he imposes on Jason and his lack of trust. Sometimes, the writers [[RunningTheAsylum get into it as well]] when writing from Jason's point of view, portraying Batman as a selfish {{Jerkass}}. Though at times, this gets {{Anvilicious}} to the point where Batman ends up coming off as UnintentionallySympathetic instead, thanks to Jason's status as a KarmaHoudini.
** Jason is also occasionally on the receiving end of this from writers and fans who would downplay his sympathetic qualities to make him far worse than he actually is (Grant Morrisson being a pretty well-known example). For the longest time, Jason as Robin was depicted as being more of a {{Jerkass}} than he actually was in order to make it seem like he was never worthy of being a Robin.
** Batman often receives this treatment from the fanbase due to the strict code of morality that he imposes on Jason and his lack of trust. Sometimes, the writers [[RunningTheAsylum get into it as well]] when writing from Jason's point of view, portraying Batman as a selfish {{Jerkass}}. Though at times, this gets {{Anvilicious}} to the point where Batman ends up coming off as UnintentionallySympathetic instead, thanks to Jason's status as a KarmaHoudini.
** Jason is also occasionally on the receiving end of this from writers and fans who would downplay his sympathetic qualities to make him far worse than he actually is (Grant Morrisson being a pretty well-known example). For the longest time, Jason as Robin was depicted as being more of a {{Jerkass}} than he actually was in order to make it seem like he was never worthy of being a Robin.
Changed line(s) 28,30 (click to see context) from:
* {{Squick}}:
** Talia kissing Jason and having sex with him in ''Lost Days'' is this to a lot of readers considering the age gap, the parent-child dynamic that both share, the fact that Bruce is Jason's adopted father, and who fans consider being Talia's love interest.
** Scott Lobdell's implication that he viewed Jason as a self-inserted "flawed man seeking redemption" disgusted many fans, given Lobdell's repeated history of sexually harassing women.
** Talia kissing Jason and having sex with him in ''Lost Days'' is this to a lot of readers considering the age gap, the parent-child dynamic that both share, the fact that Bruce is Jason's adopted father, and who fans consider being Talia's love interest.
** Scott Lobdell's implication that he viewed Jason as a self-inserted "flawed man seeking redemption" disgusted many fans, given Lobdell's repeated history of sexually harassing women.
to:
* {{Squick}}:
**{{Squick}}: Talia kissing Jason and having sex with him in ''Lost Days'' is this to a lot of readers considering the age gap, the parent-child dynamic that both share, the fact that Bruce is Jason's adopted father, and who fans consider being Talia's love interest.
** Scott Lobdell's implication that he viewed Jason as a self-inserted "flawed man seeking redemption" disgusted many fans, given Lobdell's repeated history of sexually harassing women.interest.
**
** Scott Lobdell's implication that he viewed Jason as a self-inserted "flawed man seeking redemption" disgusted many fans, given Lobdell's repeated history of sexually harassing women.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Misuse, this trope is not for conflicts within a single fandom.
Deleted line(s) 10,13 (click to see context) :
* FandomRivalry:
** A common occurence among Batfamily fans, especially among fans of individual Robins. Red Hood fans, in particular, have rivalries with Nightwing and Damian Wayne fans, even going as far as to review bomb their solo ongoings on review sites such as Comic Book Roundup.
** Between readers who prefer Scott Lobdell's version of Red Hood and those that prefer Jason under the pen of Morrison, Zdarsky or anyone other than Scott Lobdell. Since ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws and ComicBook/RedHoodArsenal ran for almost a cumulative decade, there are many fans who were introduced to the character through these runs and are dismissive of any other interpretation of the character that stray too far from it. Meanwhile, fans of other writers writing Red Hood stories tend to be dismissive of Lobdell's version because of his writing style and questionable choices in characterization.
*** While this is normal for many comic book characters with long publication histories, Red Hood's is especially notable because of how ''little'' common ground these two parties share, and how vitriolic the two camps can get. Compared to other characters with more divided fandoms over which author wrote them better, Jason's tenure as the Red Hood isn't even ''two decades old''.
** A common occurence among Batfamily fans, especially among fans of individual Robins. Red Hood fans, in particular, have rivalries with Nightwing and Damian Wayne fans, even going as far as to review bomb their solo ongoings on review sites such as Comic Book Roundup.
** Between readers who prefer Scott Lobdell's version of Red Hood and those that prefer Jason under the pen of Morrison, Zdarsky or anyone other than Scott Lobdell. Since ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws and ComicBook/RedHoodArsenal ran for almost a cumulative decade, there are many fans who were introduced to the character through these runs and are dismissive of any other interpretation of the character that stray too far from it. Meanwhile, fans of other writers writing Red Hood stories tend to be dismissive of Lobdell's version because of his writing style and questionable choices in characterization.
*** While this is normal for many comic book characters with long publication histories, Red Hood's is especially notable because of how ''little'' common ground these two parties share, and how vitriolic the two camps can get. Compared to other characters with more divided fandoms over which author wrote them better, Jason's tenure as the Red Hood isn't even ''two decades old''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
* CharacterRerailment: As of ''ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier'' Jason is being written closer to his ComicBook/PostCrisis self, as a troubled and flawed anti-hero, instead of a [[GunNut gun-obsessed mystical assassin]] and KarmaHoudini, as in ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, which was [[DorkAge widely panned by critics and readers]].
to:
* CharacterRerailment: As of ''ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier'' Jason is being written closer to his ComicBook/PostCrisis self, as a troubled and flawed anti-hero, instead of a [[GunNut gun-obsessed mystical assassin]] and KarmaHoudini, as in ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, which was [[DorkAge widely panned by critics and readers]].assassin]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
An Audience-Alienating Era is a period in a franchise, especially a long-running one, where there was a dramatic change of concept or execution, usually to stay current, and it did not work. These examples cover single stories that by all accounts do not count as an "era".
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* DorkAge:
** Hey, remember the time Jason became a tentacle monster? [[FanonDiscontinuity Neither does anyone else]].
** His appearance in ''Battle For The Cowl'' as ''Gun Bats'' is regarded as one of his lowest moments by a lot of fans.[[note]]Contrary to popular belief, the story is not written by Grant Morrison, but rather Tony Daniel[[/note]]
** His decade-long tenure under Creator/ScottLobdell was so hated that Lobdell's departure from the title was met with widespread celebration.
** His portrayal in ''ComicBook/BatmanThreeJokers'' gets this treatment thanks to his [[{{Squick}} creepy and unhealthy]] one-sided infatuation [[NoYay with Barbara]] and many fans feel he experienced character regression.
** Hey, remember the time Jason became a tentacle monster? [[FanonDiscontinuity Neither does anyone else]].
** His appearance in ''Battle For The Cowl'' as ''Gun Bats'' is regarded as one of his lowest moments by a lot of fans.[[note]]Contrary to popular belief, the story is not written by Grant Morrison, but rather Tony Daniel[[/note]]
** His decade-long tenure under Creator/ScottLobdell was so hated that Lobdell's departure from the title was met with widespread celebration.
** His portrayal in ''ComicBook/BatmanThreeJokers'' gets this treatment thanks to his [[{{Squick}} creepy and unhealthy]] one-sided infatuation [[NoYay with Barbara]] and many fans feel he experienced character regression.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* BrokenBase: Grant Morrison's direction for Jason Todd in [[ComicBook/GrantMorrisonsBatman Batman and Robin]] can be divisive. Some, particular newer readers who are familiar with Jason mostly through ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, don't like that he's a villain. Many others, however, consider it to be a unique and fresh direction that cleverly consolidates all of Jason's history into a single character arc, and makes him an interesting foil to Dick Grayson.
to:
* BrokenBase: Grant Morrison's direction for Jason Todd in [[ComicBook/GrantMorrisonsBatman Batman and Robin]] can be divisive. Some, particular newer readers who are familiar with Jason mostly through ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, don't like that he's a villain. Many others, however, consider it to be a unique and fresh direction that cleverly consolidates all of Jason's history into a single character arc, and makes him an interesting foil to Dick Grayson. A prolonged period of [[SeasonalRot poor-to-mediocre Jason Todd stories]] has left several fans wishing that Morrison's direction was followed up on.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1,2 (click to see context) from:
* BaseBreakingCharacter: One of the biggest in Batman media, thanks to his ReplacementScrappy status to Dick Grayson, and the fact that he was deliberately written as insufferable by writers have him gain this status to the readers. Even after his resurrection, his inconsistent portrayals make fans wish that he was never brought back or at least stick to Winnick's interpretation. This has gotten worse ever since the New 52 began and the comics started portraying him in a more consistently sympathetic light with a closer (though still a bit strained) relationship with the Batfamily: Some like the idea of Jason getting some positive character development and healing from his trauma, others think that the new direction does nothing but make him a KarmaHoudini and a canon example of DracoInLeatherPants and a third group likes the concept but [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot finds that vast majority of his stories to just be poorly written.]]
* BrokenBase: Grant Morrison's direction for Jason Todd in [[Comicbook/GrantMorrisonsBatman Batman and Robin]] can be divisive. Some, particular newer readers who are familiar with Jason mostly through Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, don't like that he's a villain. Many others, however, consider it to be a unique and fresh direction that cleverly consolidates all of Jason's history into a single character arc, and makes him an interesting foil to Dick Grayson.
* BrokenBase: Grant Morrison's direction for Jason Todd in [[Comicbook/GrantMorrisonsBatman Batman and Robin]] can be divisive. Some, particular newer readers who are familiar with Jason mostly through Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, don't like that he's a villain. Many others, however, consider it to be a unique and fresh direction that cleverly consolidates all of Jason's history into a single character arc, and makes him an interesting foil to Dick Grayson.
to:
* BaseBreakingCharacter: One of the biggest in Batman media, thanks to his ReplacementScrappy status to Dick Grayson, and the fact that he was deliberately written as insufferable by writers have him gain this status to the readers. Even after his resurrection, his inconsistent portrayals make fans wish that he was never brought back or at least stick to Winnick's interpretation. This has gotten worse ever since the New 52 began and the comics started portraying him in a more consistently sympathetic light with a closer (though still a bit strained) relationship with the Batfamily: Some like the idea of Jason getting some positive character development and healing from his trauma, others think that the new direction does nothing but make him a KarmaHoudini and a canon example of DracoInLeatherPants and a third group likes the concept but [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot finds that vast majority of his stories to just be poorly written.]]
written]].
* BrokenBase: Grant Morrison's direction for Jason Todd in[[Comicbook/GrantMorrisonsBatman [[ComicBook/GrantMorrisonsBatman Batman and Robin]] can be divisive. Some, particular newer readers who are familiar with Jason mostly through Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, don't like that he's a villain. Many others, however, consider it to be a unique and fresh direction that cleverly consolidates all of Jason's history into a single character arc, and makes him an interesting foil to Dick Grayson.
* BrokenBase: Grant Morrison's direction for Jason Todd in
Changed line(s) 4,11 (click to see context) from:
* CargoShip: Jason and crowbar. It’s become a RunningGag that Jason would always get beaten with a crowbar or use the crowbar against someone else. Not to mention he uses one as his main weapon in ''Outlaw''
* CharacterRerailment: As of ''ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier'' Jason is being written closer to his ComicBook/PostCrisis self, as a troubled and flawed anti-hero, instead of a [[GunNut gun-obsessed mystical assassin]] and KarmaHoudini, as in Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, which was [[DorkAge widely panned by critics and readers]].
* DracoInLeatherPants: Jason has brutally killed criminals and yet he had garnered a lot of fans willing to overlook his past transgressions and even justifying his actions as if he is only killing criminals who deserve it. Never mind that he has threatened to bomb innocents, attempted to kill Bruce, Dick, Tim, and Damian many times, and even tried to replace Bruce as Gun-toting Batman in [[Comicbook/GrantMorrisonsBatman Battle for the cowl]]. Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws confirms he ''still'' tried to kill Bruce, Dick, and Tim at different points in the past; he's shown to be EasilyForgiven by them.
* DorkAge:
** Hey, remember the time Jason became a tentacle monster? [[FanonDiscontinuity Neither does anyone else.]]
** His appearance in ''Battle For The Cowl'' as ''Gun!Bats'' is regarded as one of his lowest moments by a lot of fans.[[note]]Contrary to popular belief, the story is not written by Grant Morrison, but rather Tony Daniel[[/note]]
** His decade-long tenure under Creator/ScottLobdell was so hated that Lobdell's departure from the title was met with widespread celebration.
** His portrayal in ''Comicbook/BatmanThreeJokers'' gets this treatment thanks to his [[{{Squick}} creepy and unhealthy]] one-sided infatuation [[NoYay with Barbara]] and many fans feel he experienced character regression.
* CharacterRerailment: As of ''ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier'' Jason is being written closer to his ComicBook/PostCrisis self, as a troubled and flawed anti-hero, instead of a [[GunNut gun-obsessed mystical assassin]] and KarmaHoudini, as in Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, which was [[DorkAge widely panned by critics and readers]].
* DracoInLeatherPants: Jason has brutally killed criminals and yet he had garnered a lot of fans willing to overlook his past transgressions and even justifying his actions as if he is only killing criminals who deserve it. Never mind that he has threatened to bomb innocents, attempted to kill Bruce, Dick, Tim, and Damian many times, and even tried to replace Bruce as Gun-toting Batman in [[Comicbook/GrantMorrisonsBatman Battle for the cowl]]. Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws confirms he ''still'' tried to kill Bruce, Dick, and Tim at different points in the past; he's shown to be EasilyForgiven by them.
* DorkAge:
** Hey, remember the time Jason became a tentacle monster? [[FanonDiscontinuity Neither does anyone else.]]
** His appearance in ''Battle For The Cowl'' as ''Gun!Bats'' is regarded as one of his lowest moments by a lot of fans.[[note]]Contrary to popular belief, the story is not written by Grant Morrison, but rather Tony Daniel[[/note]]
** His decade-long tenure under Creator/ScottLobdell was so hated that Lobdell's departure from the title was met with widespread celebration.
** His portrayal in ''Comicbook/BatmanThreeJokers'' gets this treatment thanks to his [[{{Squick}} creepy and unhealthy]] one-sided infatuation [[NoYay with Barbara]] and many fans feel he experienced character regression.
to:
* CargoShip: Jason and crowbar. It’s become a RunningGag that Jason would always get beaten with a crowbar or use the crowbar against someone else. Not to mention he uses one as his main weapon in ''Outlaw''
''Outlaw''.
* CharacterRerailment: As of ''ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier'' Jason is being written closer to his ComicBook/PostCrisis self, as a troubled and flawed anti-hero, instead of a [[GunNut gun-obsessed mystical assassin]] and KarmaHoudini, as inComicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, which was [[DorkAge widely panned by critics and readers]].
* DracoInLeatherPants: Jason has brutally killed criminals and yet he had garnered a lot of fans willing to overlook his past transgressions and even justifying his actions as if he is only killing criminals who deserve it. Never mind that he has threatened to bomb innocents, attempted to kill Bruce, Dick, Tim, and Damian many times, and even tried to replace Bruce as Gun-toting Batman in[[Comicbook/GrantMorrisonsBatman [[ComicBook/GrantMorrisonsBatman Battle for the cowl]]. Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws confirms he ''still'' tried to kill Bruce, Dick, and Tim at different points in the past; he's shown to be EasilyForgiven by them.
*DorkAge:
DorkAge:
** Hey, remember the time Jason became a tentacle monster? [[FanonDiscontinuity Neither does anyoneelse.]]
else]].
** His appearance in ''Battle For The Cowl'' as''Gun!Bats'' ''Gun Bats'' is regarded as one of his lowest moments by a lot of fans.[[note]]Contrary to popular belief, the story is not written by Grant Morrison, but rather Tony Daniel[[/note]]
** His decade-long tenure under Creator/ScottLobdell was so hated that Lobdell's departure from the title was met with widespreadcelebration.
celebration.
** His portrayal in''Comicbook/BatmanThreeJokers'' ''ComicBook/BatmanThreeJokers'' gets this treatment thanks to his [[{{Squick}} creepy and unhealthy]] one-sided infatuation [[NoYay with Barbara]] and many fans feel he experienced character regression.
* CharacterRerailment: As of ''ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier'' Jason is being written closer to his ComicBook/PostCrisis self, as a troubled and flawed anti-hero, instead of a [[GunNut gun-obsessed mystical assassin]] and KarmaHoudini, as in
* DracoInLeatherPants: Jason has brutally killed criminals and yet he had garnered a lot of fans willing to overlook his past transgressions and even justifying his actions as if he is only killing criminals who deserve it. Never mind that he has threatened to bomb innocents, attempted to kill Bruce, Dick, Tim, and Damian many times, and even tried to replace Bruce as Gun-toting Batman in
*
** Hey, remember the time Jason became a tentacle monster? [[FanonDiscontinuity Neither does anyone
** His appearance in ''Battle For The Cowl'' as
** His decade-long tenure under Creator/ScottLobdell was so hated that Lobdell's departure from the title was met with widespread
** His portrayal in
Changed line(s) 13 (click to see context) from:
** Jason/Roy became this in the [=New 52=] due to Jason supplanting Dick as Roy's best friend and Roy and Kori's RelationshipWritingFumble in ''Red Hood and the Outlaws''. They even co-starred in a comic together, called ''Red Hood/Arsenal'', which amped up the HomoeroticSubtext full-force.
to:
** Jason/Roy became this in the [=New 52=] New 52 due to Jason supplanting Dick as Roy's best friend and Roy and Kori's RelationshipWritingFumble in ''Red Hood and the Outlaws''. They even co-starred in a comic together, called ''Red Hood/Arsenal'', which amped up the HomoeroticSubtext full-force.
Changed line(s) 17,20 (click to see context) from:
** Between readers who prefer Scott Lobdell's version of Red Hood and those that prefer Jason under the pen of Morrison, Zdarsky or anyone other than Scott Lobdell. Since Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws and Comicbook/RedHoodArsenal ran for almost a cumulative decade, there are many fans who were introduced to the character through these runs and are dismissive of any other interpretation of the character that stray too far from it. Meanwhile, fans of other writers writing Red Hood stories tend to be dismissive of Lobdell's version because of his writing style and [[Main/{{Understatement}} questionable]] choices in characterization.
*** While this is normal for many comic book characters with long publication histories, Red Hood's is especially notable because of how ''little'' common ground these two parties share, and how vitriolic the two camps can get. Compared to other characters with more divided fandoms over which author wrote them better, Jason's tenure as the Red Hood isn't even ''two decades old.''
* FanonDiscontinuity: Despite ''Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws'' being Jason's longest-running title, most fans are happy to mentally excise it from continuity due to sloppy storytelling, as well as the fast and loose characterization with all characters involved.
* FashionVictimVillain: In his AntiVillain days in ''Grant Morrison's Batman'', his "superhero" costume gets derided by fans. It's understandable why [[https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/142843/4593976-9444019049-11338.jpg as he looks like a walking pill medicine.]]
*** While this is normal for many comic book characters with long publication histories, Red Hood's is especially notable because of how ''little'' common ground these two parties share, and how vitriolic the two camps can get. Compared to other characters with more divided fandoms over which author wrote them better, Jason's tenure as the Red Hood isn't even ''two decades old.''
* FanonDiscontinuity: Despite ''Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws'' being Jason's longest-running title, most fans are happy to mentally excise it from continuity due to sloppy storytelling, as well as the fast and loose characterization with all characters involved.
* FashionVictimVillain: In his AntiVillain days in ''Grant Morrison's Batman'', his "superhero" costume gets derided by fans. It's understandable why [[https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/142843/4593976-9444019049-11338.jpg as he looks like a walking pill medicine.]]
to:
** Between readers who prefer Scott Lobdell's version of Red Hood and those that prefer Jason under the pen of Morrison, Zdarsky or anyone other than Scott Lobdell. Since Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws and Comicbook/RedHoodArsenal ComicBook/RedHoodArsenal ran for almost a cumulative decade, there are many fans who were introduced to the character through these runs and are dismissive of any other interpretation of the character that stray too far from it. Meanwhile, fans of other writers writing Red Hood stories tend to be dismissive of Lobdell's version because of his writing style and [[Main/{{Understatement}} questionable]] questionable choices in characterization.
characterization.
*** While this is normal for many comic book characters with long publication histories, Red Hood's is especially notable because of how ''little'' common ground these two parties share, and how vitriolic the two camps can get. Compared to other characters with more divided fandoms over which author wrote them better, Jason's tenure as the Red Hood isn't even ''two decadesold.''
old''.
* FanonDiscontinuity: Despite''Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws'' ''ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws'' being Jason's longest-running title, most fans are happy to mentally excise it from continuity due to sloppy storytelling, as well as the fast and loose characterization with all characters involved.
* FashionVictimVillain: In his AntiVillain days in ''Grant Morrison's Batman'', his "superhero" costume gets derided by fans. It's understandable why [[https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/142843/4593976-9444019049-11338.jpg as he looks like a walking pillmedicine.]] medicine]].
*** While this is normal for many comic book characters with long publication histories, Red Hood's is especially notable because of how ''little'' common ground these two parties share, and how vitriolic the two camps can get. Compared to other characters with more divided fandoms over which author wrote them better, Jason's tenure as the Red Hood isn't even ''two decades
* FanonDiscontinuity: Despite
* FashionVictimVillain: In his AntiVillain days in ''Grant Morrison's Batman'', his "superhero" costume gets derided by fans. It's understandable why [[https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/14/142843/4593976-9444019049-11338.jpg as he looks like a walking pill
Changed line(s) 22 (click to see context) from:
* JerkassWoobie: Out of all the Robins, he has it the worst considering that he grew up on the streets, had his foster mother (drugs), his father (killed by Two-Face/[[Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws Penguin]]), his real mother (Joker), and his adopted father (Batman, really lost in time but he didn't know that) all die on him, had his real mother betray him to the Joker when he tried to help her, was brutally beaten and then blown up by the Joker, was resurrected without his memories and forced to dig his way out of his grave and live on the streets, was dunked in a Lazarus Pit to regain his memories, found out that his adopted father had failed to avenge his death, was "betrayed" again when Batman attacked him to stop him from killing the Joker
to:
* JerkassWoobie: Out of all the Robins, he has it the worst considering that he grew up on the streets, had his foster mother (drugs), his father (killed by Two-Face/[[Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws Two-Face/[[ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws Penguin]]), his real mother (Joker), and his adopted father (Batman, really lost in time but he didn't know that) all die on him, had his real mother betray him to the Joker when he tried to help her, was brutally beaten and then blown up by the Joker, was resurrected without his memories and forced to dig his way out of his grave and live on the streets, was dunked in a Lazarus Pit to regain his memories, found out that his adopted father had failed to avenge his death, was "betrayed" again when Batman attacked him to stop him from killing the JokerJoker.
Changed line(s) 24,25 (click to see context) from:
* MemeticMutation: "Red Hood fans hate good writing."[[labelnote:Explanation]]While Chip Zdarsky's ''Batman Urban Legends'' arc for ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier is widely praised, especially in comparison to [[DorkAge Scott Lobdell's mostly derided tenure on]] Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, some Lobell loyalists have vocally disparaged Zdarsky on Twitter, Comic Book Roundup, and Comic Book Resources forums for writing Jason as flawed and allegedly less capable in combat. This led to other DC fans [[https://i.imgflip.com/5hokpw.jpg mocking]] them and [[https://i.redd.it/med9fo7rsw371.jpg making]] [[https://i.imgur.com/rigsHfj.jpeg memes]] about them hating otherwise acclaimed works.[[/labelnote]]
* MisaimedFandom: Like ComicBook/ThePunisher, there is a sizeable section of the fandom who fails to realize that Jason's inclination towards killing is a tragic outcome of terrible things he's suffered in his life and that his lethal methods often fail to stop crime, sometimes even escalating them. Rather, they just see him as the reason why Batman would be "cooler" if he killed people.
* MisaimedFandom: Like ComicBook/ThePunisher, there is a sizeable section of the fandom who fails to realize that Jason's inclination towards killing is a tragic outcome of terrible things he's suffered in his life and that his lethal methods often fail to stop crime, sometimes even escalating them. Rather, they just see him as the reason why Batman would be "cooler" if he killed people.
to:
* MemeticMutation: "Red Hood fans hate good writing."[[labelnote:Explanation]]While Chip Zdarsky's ''Batman Urban Legends'' arc for ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier is widely praised, especially in comparison to [[DorkAge Scott Lobdell's mostly derided tenure on]] Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, ComicBook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, some Lobell loyalists have vocally disparaged Zdarsky on Twitter, Comic Book Roundup, and Comic Book Resources forums for writing Jason as flawed and allegedly less capable in combat. This led to other DC fans [[https://i.imgflip.com/5hokpw.jpg mocking]] them and [[https://i.redd.it/med9fo7rsw371.jpg making]] [[https://i.imgur.com/rigsHfj.jpeg memes]] about them hating otherwise acclaimed works.[[/labelnote]]
* MisaimedFandom: Like ComicBook/ThePunisher, there is a sizeable section of the fandom who fails to realize that Jason's inclination towards killing is a tragic outcome of terrible things he's suffered in his life and that his lethal methods often fail to stop crime, sometimes even escalating them. Rather, they just see him as the reason why Batman would be "cooler" if he killed people.
* MisaimedFandom: Like ComicBook/ThePunisher, there is a sizeable section of the fandom who fails to realize that Jason's inclination towards killing is a tragic outcome of terrible things he's suffered in his life and that his lethal methods often fail to stop crime, sometimes even escalating them. Rather, they just see him as the reason why Batman would be "cooler" if he killed people.
Changed line(s) 34 (click to see context) from:
* SelfFanservice: Fan artists ''love'' to draw him with a SkunkStripe in his hair despite it only appearing in a few arcs and having been forgotten in the [=New 52=] era.
to:
* SelfFanservice: Fan artists ''love'' to draw him with a SkunkStripe in his hair despite it only appearing in a few arcs and having been forgotten in the [=New 52=] New 52 era.
Changed line(s) 40 (click to see context) from:
* WTHCostumingDepartment: The costume designed by Peter Woods for the Outlaw period has been widely reviled by the fans due to the fact of dropping the iconic red helmet and leather jacket and replacing it with a sleeveless red hoodie and a combination of a domino mask and red muzzle. As soon as the costume was revealed, comparisons with [[Franchise/MortalKombat Scorpion/Sub-Zero]] started dropping everywhere. Strangely, while DC was quick to return Jason to his New 52 costume after people complained about the costume used in ''ComicBook/RedHoodArsenal'', the Woods costume has been used for two years and counting, with no sign of being changed anytime soon. To further confuse things up, stories set outside the main continuity (bar ''ComicBook/BatmanThreeJokers'', that uses a costume specially designed for it) always depict Jason in his Rebirth costume.
to:
* WTHCostumingDepartment: The costume designed by Peter Woods for the Outlaw period has been widely reviled by the fans due to the fact of dropping the iconic red helmet and leather jacket and replacing it with a sleeveless red hoodie and a combination of a domino mask and red muzzle. As soon as the costume was revealed, comparisons with [[Franchise/MortalKombat Scorpion/Sub-Zero]] started dropping everywhere. Strangely, while DC was quick to return Jason to his New 52 costume after people complained about the costume used in ''ComicBook/RedHoodArsenal'', the Woods costume has been used for two years and counting, with no sign of being changed anytime soon. To further confuse things up, stories set outside the main continuity (bar ''ComicBook/BatmanThreeJokers'', that uses a costume specially designed for it) always depict Jason in his Rebirth costume.costume.
----
----
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eliminating redundancy on my part.
Changed line(s) 17 (click to see context) from:
** Between readers who prefer Scott Lobdell's version of Red Hood and those that prefer Jason under the pen of Morrison, Zdarsky or anyone other than Scott Lobdell. Since Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws and Comicbook/RedHoodArsenal ran for almost a cumulative decade, there are many fans who were introduced to the character through these runs and are dismissive of any other interpretation of the character that stray too far from it. Meanwhile, fans of other writers writing Red Hood stories tend to be dismissive of Lobdell's version because of his writing style and questionable writing style.
to:
** Between readers who prefer Scott Lobdell's version of Red Hood and those that prefer Jason under the pen of Morrison, Zdarsky or anyone other than Scott Lobdell. Since Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws and Comicbook/RedHoodArsenal ran for almost a cumulative decade, there are many fans who were introduced to the character through these runs and are dismissive of any other interpretation of the character that stray too far from it. Meanwhile, fans of other writers writing Red Hood stories tend to be dismissive of Lobdell's version because of his writing style and questionable writing style.[[Main/{{Understatement}} questionable]] choices in characterization.
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None
Changed line(s) 15 (click to see context) from:
* FandomRivalry: A common occurence among Batfamily fans, especially among fans of individual Robins. Red Hood fans, in particular, have rivalries with Nightwing and Damian Wayne fans, even going as far as to review bomb their solo ongoings on review sites such as Comic Book Roundup.
to:
* FandomRivalry: FandomRivalry:
** A common occurence among Batfamily fans, especially among fans of individual Robins. Red Hood fans, in particular, have rivalries with Nightwing and Damian Wayne fans, even going as far as to review bomb their solo ongoings on review sites such as Comic BookRoundup.Roundup.
** Between readers who prefer Scott Lobdell's version of Red Hood and those that prefer Jason under the pen of Morrison, Zdarsky or anyone other than Scott Lobdell. Since Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws and Comicbook/RedHoodArsenal ran for almost a cumulative decade, there are many fans who were introduced to the character through these runs and are dismissive of any other interpretation of the character that stray too far from it. Meanwhile, fans of other writers writing Red Hood stories tend to be dismissive of Lobdell's version because of his writing style and questionable writing style.
*** While this is normal for many comic book characters with long publication histories, Red Hood's is especially notable because of how ''little'' common ground these two parties share, and how vitriolic the two camps can get. Compared to other characters with more divided fandoms over which author wrote them better, Jason's tenure as the Red Hood isn't even ''two decades old.''
** A common occurence among Batfamily fans, especially among fans of individual Robins. Red Hood fans, in particular, have rivalries with Nightwing and Damian Wayne fans, even going as far as to review bomb their solo ongoings on review sites such as Comic Book
** Between readers who prefer Scott Lobdell's version of Red Hood and those that prefer Jason under the pen of Morrison, Zdarsky or anyone other than Scott Lobdell. Since Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws and Comicbook/RedHoodArsenal ran for almost a cumulative decade, there are many fans who were introduced to the character through these runs and are dismissive of any other interpretation of the character that stray too far from it. Meanwhile, fans of other writers writing Red Hood stories tend to be dismissive of Lobdell's version because of his writing style and questionable writing style.
*** While this is normal for many comic book characters with long publication histories, Red Hood's is especially notable because of how ''little'' common ground these two parties share, and how vitriolic the two camps can get. Compared to other characters with more divided fandoms over which author wrote them better, Jason's tenure as the Red Hood isn't even ''two decades old.''
Changed line(s) 21 (click to see context) from:
* MemeticMutation: "Red Hood fans hate good writing."[[labelnote:Explanation]]While Chip Zdarsky's ''Batman Urban Legends'' arc for ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier is widely praised, especially in comparison to [[DorkAge Scott Lobdell's mostly derided tenure on Comicbooks/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws]], some Lobell loyalists have vocally disparaged Zdarsky on Twitter, Comic Book Roundup, and Comic Book Resources forums for writing Jason as flawed and allegedly less capable in combat. This led to other DC fans [[https://i.imgflip.com/5hokpw.jpg mocking]] them and [[https://i.redd.it/med9fo7rsw371.jpg making]] [[https://i.imgur.com/rigsHfj.jpeg memes]] about them hating otherwise acclaimed works.[[/labelnote]]
to:
* MemeticMutation: "Red Hood fans hate good writing."[[labelnote:Explanation]]While Chip Zdarsky's ''Batman Urban Legends'' arc for ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier is widely praised, especially in comparison to [[DorkAge Scott Lobdell's mostly derided tenure on Comicbooks/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws]], on]] Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, some Lobell loyalists have vocally disparaged Zdarsky on Twitter, Comic Book Roundup, and Comic Book Resources forums for writing Jason as flawed and allegedly less capable in combat. This led to other DC fans [[https://i.imgflip.com/5hokpw.jpg mocking]] them and [[https://i.redd.it/med9fo7rsw371.jpg making]] [[https://i.imgur.com/rigsHfj.jpeg memes]] about them hating otherwise acclaimed works.[[/labelnote]]
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None
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* BrokenBase: Grant Morrison's direction for Jason Todd in [[Comicbook/GrantMorrisonBatman Batman and Robin]] can be divisive. Some, particular newer readers who are familiar with Jason mostly through Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, don't like that he's a villain. Many others, however, consider it to be a unique and fresh direction that cleverly consolidates all of Jason's history into a single character arc, and makes him an interesting foil to Dick Grayson.
to:
* BrokenBase: Grant Morrison's direction for Jason Todd in [[Comicbook/GrantMorrisonBatman [[Comicbook/GrantMorrisonsBatman Batman and Robin]] can be divisive. Some, particular newer readers who are familiar with Jason mostly through Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, don't like that he's a villain. Many others, however, consider it to be a unique and fresh direction that cleverly consolidates all of Jason's history into a single character arc, and makes him an interesting foil to Dick Grayson.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
* BrokenBase: Grant Morrison's direction for Jason Todd in [[Comicbook/GrantMorrisonBatman Batman and Robin]] can be divisive. Some, particular newer readers who are familiar with Jason mostly through Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, don't like that he's a villain. Many others, however, consider it to be a unique and fresh direction that cleverly consolidates all of Jason's history into a single character arc, and makes him an interesting foil to Dick Grayson.
* MemeticMutation: "Red Hood fans hate good writing."[[labelnote:Explanation]]While Chip Zdarsky's ''Batman Urban Legends'' arc for ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier is widely praised, especially in comparison to [[DorkAge Scott Lobdell's mostly derided tenure on Comicbooks/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws]], some Lobell loyalists have vocally disparaged Zdarsky on Twitter, Comic Book Roundup, and Comic Book Resources forums for writing Jason as flawed and allegedly less capable in combat. This led to other DC fans [[https://i.imgflip.com/5hokpw.jpg mocking]] them and [[https://i.redd.it/med9fo7rsw371.jpg making]] [[https://i.imgur.com/rigsHfj.jpeg memes]] about them hating otherwise acclaimed works.[[/labelnote]]
Changed line(s) 21 (click to see context) from:
* MyRealDaddy: Although Jason Todd was created by Gerry Conway, Judd Winick set his status quo as the Red Hood and defined his character for the new millennium, including adaptations.
to:
* MyRealDaddy: Although Jason Todd was created by Gerry Conway, Judd Winick set his status quo as the Red Hood and defined his character for the new millennium, including adaptations. Max Allan Collins is also responsible for creating his iconic origin, though he's not often credited as doing so.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* FandomRivalry: A common occurence among Batfamily fans, especially among fans of individual Robins. Red Hood fans, in particular, have rivalries with Nightwing and Damian Wayne fans, even going as far as to review bomb their solo ongoings on review sites such as Comic Book Roundup.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
** His portrayal in ''Comicbook/BatmanThreeJokers'' gets this treatment thanks to his [[{{Squick}} controversial and unhealthy]] one-sided infatuation [[NoYay with Barbara]] and many fans feel he experienced character regression.
to:
** His portrayal in ''Comicbook/BatmanThreeJokers'' gets this treatment thanks to his [[{{Squick}} controversial creepy and unhealthy]] one-sided infatuation [[NoYay with Barbara]] and many fans feel he experienced character regression.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
** His portrayal in ''Comicbook/BatmanThreeJokers'' gets this treatment thanks to his [[{{Squick}} controversial and unhealthy]] romance [[NoYay with Barbara]] and many fans feel he experienced character regression.
to:
** His portrayal in ''Comicbook/BatmanThreeJokers'' gets this treatment thanks to his [[{{Squick}} controversial and unhealthy]] romance one-sided infatuation [[NoYay with Barbara]] and many fans feel he experienced character regression.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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** Editorial has acknowledged the fan preferences in recent years in a pretty curious way, while in the main canon Jason is still completely black-haired, his appearances in comics outside of the main canon tend to depict him with the stripe.
Changed line(s) 33 (click to see context) from:
* WTHCostumingDepartment: The costume designed by Peter Woods for the Outlaw period has been widely reviled by the fans due to the fact of dropping the iconic red helmet and leather jacket and replacing it with a sleeveless red hoodie and a combination of a domino mask and red muzzle. As soon as the costume was revealed, comparisons with [[Franchise/MortalKombat Scorpion/Sub-Zero]] started dropping everywhere. Strangely, while DC was quick to return Jason to his New 52 costume after people complained about the Denis Medri designed costume used in ''ComicBook/RedHoodArsenal'', the Woods costume has been used for two years and counting, with no sign of being changed anytime soon. To further confuse things up, stories set outside the main continuity (bar ''ComicBook/BatmanThreeJokers'', that uses a costume specially designed for it) always depict Jason in his Rebirth costume.
to:
* WTHCostumingDepartment: The costume designed by Peter Woods for the Outlaw period has been widely reviled by the fans due to the fact of dropping the iconic red helmet and leather jacket and replacing it with a sleeveless red hoodie and a combination of a domino mask and red muzzle. As soon as the costume was revealed, comparisons with [[Franchise/MortalKombat Scorpion/Sub-Zero]] started dropping everywhere. Strangely, while DC was quick to return Jason to his New 52 costume after people complained about the Denis Medri designed costume used in ''ComicBook/RedHoodArsenal'', the Woods costume has been used for two years and counting, with no sign of being changed anytime soon. To further confuse things up, stories set outside the main continuity (bar ''ComicBook/BatmanThreeJokers'', that uses a costume specially designed for it) always depict Jason in his Rebirth costume.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 32 (click to see context) from:
** Scott Lobdell's implication that he viewed Jason as a self-inserted "flawed man seeking redemption" disgusted many fans, given Lobdell's repeated history of sexually harassing women.
to:
** Scott Lobdell's implication that he viewed Jason as a self-inserted "flawed man seeking redemption" disgusted many fans, given Lobdell's repeated history of sexually harassing women.women.
* WTHCostumingDepartment: The costume designed by Peter Woods for the Outlaw period has been widely reviled by the fans due to the fact of dropping the iconic red helmet and leather jacket and replacing it with a sleeveless red hoodie and a combination of a domino mask and red muzzle. As soon as the costume was revealed, comparisons with [[Franchise/MortalKombat Scorpion/Sub-Zero]] started dropping everywhere. Strangely, while DC was quick to return Jason to his New 52 costume after people complained about the Denis Medri designed costume used in ''ComicBook/RedHoodArsenal'', the Woods costume has been used for two years and counting, with no sign of being changed anytime soon. To further confuse things up, stories set outside the main continuity (bar ''ComicBook/BatmanThreeJokers'', that uses a costume specially designed for it) always depict Jason in his Rebirth costume.
* WTHCostumingDepartment: The costume designed by Peter Woods for the Outlaw period has been widely reviled by the fans due to the fact of dropping the iconic red helmet and leather jacket and replacing it with a sleeveless red hoodie and a combination of a domino mask and red muzzle. As soon as the costume was revealed, comparisons with [[Franchise/MortalKombat Scorpion/Sub-Zero]] started dropping everywhere. Strangely, while DC was quick to return Jason to his New 52 costume after people complained about the Denis Medri designed costume used in ''ComicBook/RedHoodArsenal'', the Woods costume has been used for two years and counting, with no sign of being changed anytime soon. To further confuse things up, stories set outside the main continuity (bar ''ComicBook/BatmanThreeJokers'', that uses a costume specially designed for it) always depict Jason in his Rebirth costume.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Dude's portrayed a broken man, not an incel, and only violent with Batman and the Jokers.
Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
** His portrayal in ''Comicbook/BatmanThreeJokers'' gets this treatment as well, due to the notion of him being a violent incel.
to:
** His portrayal in ''Comicbook/BatmanThreeJokers'' gets this treatment as well, due thanks to the notion of him being a violent incel.his [[{{Squick}} controversial and unhealthy]] romance [[NoYay with Barbara]] and many fans feel he experienced character regression.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Misuse of Fandom Rivalry. Needs to have a rival fandom.
Deleted line(s) 11 (click to see context) :
* FandomRivalry: One of the more aggressive ones among the Batfamily. On Comic Book Roundup, Red Hood fans have taken to review bombing every other Batfamily book.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Fan Preferred Couple underwent changes
and now needs a canon love interest to go against in order to be an FPC. Jason/Rose is the official couple in unkillables & titans so it can't be an FPC.
and now needs a canon love interest to go against in order to be an FPC. Jason/Rose is the official couple in unkillables & titans so it can't be an FPC.Changed line(s) 13,16 (click to see context) from:
** Jason/Roy became this in the [=New 52=] due to Jason supplanting Dick as Roy's best friend in ''Red Hood and the Outlaws''. They even co-starred in a comic together, called ''Red Hood/Arsenal'', which amped up the HoYay full-force.
** Jason/Artemis during the Rebirth run. Most fans prefer to ship Artemis with women, so the fact that this pairing managed to build a solid following is rather surprising.
** Jason/Rose thanks to ''Series/Titans2018''. As a result of that, the pairing saw increased ShipTease in the comics, particularly in ''ComicBook/DCeased: The Unkillables''.
** As far as Batcest shippers go, expect Jason to be paired with either Dick or Tim.
** Jason/Artemis during the Rebirth run. Most fans prefer to ship Artemis with women, so the fact that this pairing managed to build a solid following is rather surprising.
** Jason/Rose thanks to ''Series/Titans2018''. As a result of that, the pairing saw increased ShipTease in the comics, particularly in ''ComicBook/DCeased: The Unkillables''.
** As far as Batcest shippers go, expect Jason to be paired with either Dick or Tim.
to:
** Jason/Roy became this in the [=New 52=] due to Jason supplanting Dick as Roy's best friend and Roy and Kori's RelationshipWritingFumble in ''Red Hood and the Outlaws''. They even co-starred in a comic together, called ''Red Hood/Arsenal'', which amped up the HoYay HomoeroticSubtext full-force.
** Jason/Artemis during the Rebirth run. Most fans prefer to ship Artemis with women, and Jason has a FriendsWithBenefits relationship with Isabela so the fact that this pairing managed to build a solid following is rathersurprising.
** Jason/Rose thanks to ''Series/Titans2018''. As a result of that, the pairing saw increased ShipTeasesurprising. While they did have some ship tease in the comics, particularly in ''ComicBook/DCeased: The Unkillables''.
** As far as Batcest shippers go, expect Jasoncanon, it was ultimately sunk when they agree to be paired with either Dick or Tim. JustFriends.
** Jason/Artemis during the Rebirth run. Most fans prefer to ship Artemis with women, and Jason has a FriendsWithBenefits relationship with Isabela so the fact that this pairing managed to build a solid following is rather
** Jason/Rose thanks to ''Series/Titans2018''. As a result of that, the pairing saw increased ShipTease
** As far as Batcest shippers go, expect Jason
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None
Added DiffLines:
* FandomRivalry: One of the more aggressive ones among the Batfamily. On Comic Book Roundup, Red Hood fans have taken to review bombing every other Batfamily book.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 24,26 (click to see context) from:
* PeripheryDemographic:
** He has a large female fanbase thanks to being a DarkerAndEdgier PrettyBoy with daddy issues (and many others) and was voiced by Creator/JensenAckles in his animated movie. Website/{{Tumblr}} apparently loves him.
** He has a following in the Video Game fandom thanks to his appearances in ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamKnight'' and ''VideoGame/Injustice2''.
** He has a large female fanbase thanks to being a DarkerAndEdgier PrettyBoy with daddy issues (and many others) and was voiced by Creator/JensenAckles in his animated movie. Website/{{Tumblr}} apparently loves him.
** He has a following in the Video Game fandom thanks to his appearances in ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamKnight'' and ''VideoGame/Injustice2''.
to:
* PeripheryDemographic:
**PeripheryDemographic: He has a large female fanbase thanks to being a DarkerAndEdgier PrettyBoy with daddy issues (and many others) and was voiced by Creator/JensenAckles in his animated movie. Website/{{Tumblr}} apparently loves him.
** He has a following in the Video Game fandom thanks to his appearances in ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamKnight'' and ''VideoGame/Injustice2''.him.
**
** He has a following in the Video Game fandom thanks to his appearances in ''VideoGame/BatmanArkhamKnight'' and ''VideoGame/Injustice2''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Zdarsky's run in UL is still ongoing, but Fanon Discontinuity is specifically for opinions within the fandom. If nobody every mentions his time under Lobdell again, then it will be Canon Discontinuity
Changed line(s) 16 (click to see context) from:
* FanonDiscontinuity: Many readers were relieved that Chip Zdarsky's anthology story in Comicbook/DCInfiniteFrontier does not acknowledge anything that had happened in ''Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws'', and have decided to mentally excise Scott Lobdell's run wholesale from canon.
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* FanonDiscontinuity: Many readers were relieved that Chip Zdarsky's anthology story in Comicbook/DCInfiniteFrontier does not acknowledge anything that had happened in ''Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws'', and have decided Despite ''Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws'' being Jason's longest-running title, most fans are happy to mentally excise Scott Lobdell's run wholesale it from canon.continuity due to sloppy storytelling, as well as the fast and loose characterization with all characters involved.
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* NeverLiveItDown: His death at the hands of ComicBook/TheJoker, which is both {{Inverse}} and to all comic fans. He's got his general impulsive {{Jerkass}} demeanor that made him a solid [[TheScrappy Scrappy]] and is the very reason why he was killed.
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* NeverLiveItDown: His death at the hands of ComicBook/TheJoker, which is both {{Inverse}} and ComicBook/TheJoker to all comic fans.fans and [[OnceDoneNeverForgotten even by other characters]]. He's got his general impulsive {{Jerkass}} demeanor that made him a solid [[TheScrappy Scrappy]] and is the very reason why he was killed.
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** Talia kissing Jason and having sex with him in ''Lost Days'' is this to a lot of readers considering the age gap, the parent-child dynamic that both share, the fact that Bruce is Jason's adopted father and who fans consider being Talia's love interest.
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** Talia kissing Jason and having sex with him in ''Lost Days'' is this to a lot of readers considering the age gap, the parent-child dynamic that both share, the fact that Bruce is Jason's adopted father father, and who fans consider being Talia's love interest.
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* BaseBreakingCharacter: One of the biggest in Batman media, thanks to his ReplacementScrappy status to Dick Grayson, and the fact that he was deliberately written as insufferable by writers have him gain this status to the readers. Even after his resurrection, his inconsistent portrayals make fans wish that he was never brought back or at least stick to Winnick's interpretation. This has gotten worse ever since the New 52 began and the comics started portraying him in a more consistently sympathetic light with a closer (though still a bit strained) relationship with the Batfamily: Some like the idea of Jason getting some positive character development and healing from his trauma, others think that the new direction does nothing but make him a KarmaHoudini and a canon example of DracoInLeatherPants and a third group likes the concept but [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot finds the execution rushed and forced more than anything.]]
* BrokenBase: Opinions have been very mixed since Flashpoint. Some think Jason has been written better than ever, while others think he has potential but finds the vast majority of his stories to be subpar. And some just think he was more interesting dead.
* BrokenBase: Opinions have been very mixed since Flashpoint. Some think Jason has been written better than ever, while others think he has potential but finds the vast majority of his stories to be subpar. And some just think he was more interesting dead.
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* BaseBreakingCharacter: One of the biggest in Batman media, thanks to his ReplacementScrappy status to Dick Grayson, and the fact that he was deliberately written as insufferable by writers have him gain this status to the readers. Even after his resurrection, his inconsistent portrayals make fans wish that he was never brought back or at least stick to Winnick's interpretation. This has gotten worse ever since the New 52 began and the comics started portraying him in a more consistently sympathetic light with a closer (though still a bit strained) relationship with the Batfamily: Some like the idea of Jason getting some positive character development and healing from his trauma, others think that the new direction does nothing but make him a KarmaHoudini and a canon example of DracoInLeatherPants and a third group likes the concept but [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot finds the execution rushed and forced more than anything.]]
* BrokenBase: Opinions have been very mixed since Flashpoint. Some think Jason has been written better than ever, while others think he has potential but finds thethat vast majority of his stories to be subpar. And some just think he was more interesting dead. be poorly written.]]
* BrokenBase: Opinions have been very mixed since Flashpoint. Some think Jason has been written better than ever, while others think he has potential but finds the
** His portrayal in ''Comicbook/BatmanThreeJokers'' gets this treatment as well, due to the notion of him being a violent incel.
* FanonDiscontinuity: Many readers were relieved that Chip Zdarsky's anthology story in Comicbook/DCInfiniteFrontier does not acknowledge anything that had happened in ''Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws'', and have decided to mentally excise Scott Lobdell's run wholesale from canon.
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* MisaimedFandom: Like ComicBook/ThePunisher, there is a sizeable section of the fandom who fails to realize that Jason's inclination towards killing is a tragic outcome of terrible things he's suffered in his life and that his lethal methods often fail to stop crime, sometimes even escalating them. Rather, they just see him as the reason why Batman would be "cooler" if he killed people. Jason has been written with a [[LeaningOnTheFourthWall certain degree of awareness]] about the flaws of this ideology during both volumes of RHATO and Red Hood/Arsenal.
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* MisaimedFandom: Like ComicBook/ThePunisher, there is a sizeable section of the fandom who fails to realize that Jason's inclination towards killing is a tragic outcome of terrible things he's suffered in his life and that his lethal methods often fail to stop crime, sometimes even escalating them. Rather, they just see him as the reason why Batman would be "cooler" if he killed people. Jason has been written with a [[LeaningOnTheFourthWall certain degree of awareness]] about the flaws of this ideology during both volumes of RHATO and Red Hood/Arsenal.
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* CharacterRerailment: In ''ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier'', Jason is written closer to his ComicBook/PostCrisis self, as a troubled and flawed anti-hero, instead of a [[GunNut gun-obsessed mystical assassin]] and KarmaHoudini, as in Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, which was [[DorkAge widely hated]].
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* CharacterRerailment: In ''ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier'', As of ''ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier'' Jason is being written closer to his ComicBook/PostCrisis self, as a troubled and flawed anti-hero, instead of a [[GunNut gun-obsessed mystical assassin]] and KarmaHoudini, as in Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, which was [[DorkAge widely hated]].panned by critics and readers]].
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* CharacterRerailment: In ''ComicBook/DCInfiniteFrontier'', Jason is written closer to his ComicBook/PostCrisis self, as a troubled and flawed anti-hero, instead of a [[GunNut gun-obsessed mystical assassin]] and KarmaHoudini, as in Comicbook/RedHoodAndTheOutlaws, which was [[DorkAge widely hated]].
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* SelfFanservice: Fan artists ''love'' to draw him with a SkunkStripe in his hair despite it only appearing in a few arcs and haveing been forgotten in the [=New 52=] era.
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* SelfFanservice: Fan artists ''love'' to draw him with a SkunkStripe in his hair despite it only appearing in a few arcs and haveing having been forgotten in the [=New 52=] era.
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* NeverLiveItDown: His death at the hands of ComicBook/TheJoker, which is both {{Inverse}} and to all comic fans. He's got his general impulsive {{Jerkass}} demeanor that made him a solid [[TheScrappy Scrappy]] and is the very reason why he was killed
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* NeverLiveItDown: His death at the hands of ComicBook/TheJoker, which is both {{Inverse}} and to all comic fans. He's got his general impulsive {{Jerkass}} demeanor that made him a solid [[TheScrappy Scrappy]] and is the very reason why he was killed.
