History YMMV / DarkSoulsII

* VindicatedByHistory:
** While still easily the most controversial entry in the series due to its rocky development, gameplay alterations, and how fast and loose it played with certain aspects of the story and lore, fans of the franchise are viewing it more favorably since ''VideoGame/DarkSoulsIII'' helped clarify some of the lore it added to the series [[spoiler:and utilized Vendrick's [[TakeAThirdOption third option]] as one of its endings.]] The added references to the game included in ''The Ringed City'' also helped cement it in the lore of the franchise rather than making it seem like the odd game out (including a revisit to Earthen Peak and adding lore onto the Ruin Sentinels, Desert Pyromancers, and the nature of dark, the First Sin, and the Abyss).
** Some of the game's elements, such as its initial world openness, its PvP variety, and its willingness to establish its own lore instead of relying on the characters and settings of ''Dark Souls I'', have been more well-received in hindsight given some of the criticisms directed at ''Dark Souls III'' in all of these fields.

** Sir Raime having defected from the service of Vendrick because of Nashandra. The only thing the supplementary material states is that Raime challenged Velstadt and lost thus leading to his exile. The idea that he did it because he realized what Nashandra was mainly originates from various Youtuber's lore videos which have mostly speculation. This interpretation is so widespread that it appears on Wiki/ThisVeryWiki.

* ContestedSequel: While some people enjoy the game, finding it even better than the first thanks to its mechanical improvements and wide build potential, some people hate it, criticizing various aspects of its gameplay design, music, storytelling/lore, and visual aesthetic as uninspired, lazy, and poorly thought-out compared to the first game.[[TakeaThirdOption Some people think it is still a pretty fun game, but just doesn't live up to the memorable experience of the first, even taking Dark Souls 1's flaws into account]]. There isn't really a consensus.

** Being able to teleport between any bonfire now: good. Having to teleport to one specific bonfire to level up: annoying for some, as it puts a loading screen in front of a process that was instantaneous before.

** Adaptability. In the first game, your roll had a consistent speed and amount of invincibility frames depending on your equipment burden, however in ''Dark Souls II'' you gain more invincibility frames by raising your Agility, which is tied to your Adaptability stat. This has led to many players complaining that rolling to dodge attacks early game is much more frustrating and ineffective, because by default your character has ''less i-frames than the worst roll in the first game'', meaning that you need to invest several level-ups to gain a decent roll at all.

** "[[SarcasmMode Dark Souls 2 is a smart, massive, and incredibly rewarding sequel]]."[[labelnote:Explanation]] A meme popularized by WebVideo/{{Zerolenny}} that takes the piss out of the IGN review for the game. Detractors of Dark Souls 2 will often play the audio clip of the review saying this over easily demonstrated wonky hitboxes, bad level design and ganky enemies within the game itself.[[/labelnote]]

*** The aforementioned Black Gulch can qualify on its own. Besides the rows of poison-spitting statues, usually on both sides of the main path, to reach certain areas you have to drop down onto often narrow ledges down an abyss so dark it hinders precious visibility unless you have a torch or you're relying on messages left by other players. You'll also have to deal with the Coal Tars, who will always try to ambush you from dark pools of water with a devastating opening attack, likely while you're distracted trying to destroy the poison statues, and a fairly tough NPC phantom. There ''is'' mercifully a bonfire near the boss room - but it's somewhat hidden and requires a particular item to reach. If you don't happen to have it, you've got the whole level in its poisonous glory between you and the boss.

** Covetous Demon is an absolute cake-walk compared to bosses prior and even the rest of the level you face it in. Its attacks are laughably slow and telegraphed, and unlike Dragonrider, it doesn't have the reach or arena gimmicks to make up for it.

* BrokenBase:
** The biggest point of contention is that, compared to its predecessors ''VideoGame/DemonsSouls'' and ''VideoGame/DarkSoulsI'', ''Dark Souls II'' is more of a HighFantasy. They're all [[DarkFantasy still pretty dark]], but ''[=DSII=]'' is notably lighter. The visual design of the game is a lot closer to a typical fantasy RPG than the other games in the series, leading many players to complain about it feeling uninspired in comparison to the bleak, mysterious look of its predecessors. This extends to the bosses as well, with Darklurker in particular being singled out as looking like a rejected design from ''VideoGame/WorldOfWarcraft''.
** Being Hollow no longer protects the player from invasions in ''Dark Souls''. One camp believes this is a good thing and tells others that if they don't want to be invaded they should play offline. The other believes they shouldn't be invaded while Hollow and that they play online for the ghost and player messages. On the other hand, invasions happen very rarely if you don't play NewGamePlus.
** There's a surprisingly intense argument among the lore fans as to whether or not Drangleic is located on the ruins of Lordran or Vinheim. Proponents of the former note significant similarities in rough geography as well as a number of creatures, items, and other leftovers from Lordran. Proponents of the latter argue that the Lingering Dragoncrest Ring is clear evidence that Drangleic is Vinheim, and are backed up by WordOfGod that Drangleic is far away from Lordran.
** There's some debate over the implementation of the Lifegems mechanic. Its detractors argue that the original game's healing system was an important part of the game, limiting how much healing a player could get for each bonfire, and thus giving them only a set amount of mistakes. Lifegems, on the other hand, can be obtained in an infinite supply for relatively cheap souls, so a player can load up on them and heal up as often as they like, even during boss battles. This also leads to a major issue of the Estus Flask being delegated as a "back-up" item because of changes made to the speed at which you can drink it. Its supporters argue that the Lifegems don't usually heal fast enough to be very useful in the heat of combat, while also adding a new element of strategy, not to mention preventing those moments where you know you don't have enough Estus to make it to the next bonfire, but have made it too far to go back.
** The implantation of Valve Anti Cheat for the PC version. Some fans are happy to see some form of anti-cheating measure being added in the game, as hacking was a major issue with the PC port of the first game. However, having VAC also means that players cannot use any mods that alter the game engine, as they risk being banned. It's terrible for users who wish to use texture and graphical mods.
** Just as in the first game, hackers are a pretty big problem. Now, however, cheat engines can be used to change the game in much more interesting ways, meaning that there's quite a few "fun hackers". These people tend to invade and act as powerful minibosses, combining spell effects to make them more elaborate or powerful looking, or changing the movesets of weapons on the fly. As always, the community is split on whether these kinds of hackers are just as bad as the usual unlimited health, unlimited stamina kind, considering that these fun hackers are generally pretty well behaved, entirely possible to be killed, and are actually fun to fight against.
** Finally, is the updated ''Scholar of the First Sin'' edition (which mixed up enemy and item placements as well as including all 3 DLC campaigns and a new ending) an improvement over the base game, or is it actually ''worse?'' Since ''Scholar's'' alternate ending and TrueFinalBoss [[spoiler:(Aldia, Scholar of the First Sin)]] were added into the base game as well and you can buy the 3 DLC campaigns, ''Scholar'' has no automatic advantages over the original other than the remixed layout, and some people claim that not only do the rearranged enemy placements exacerbate the problems the game has with unfair gank-fests, they don't even make thematic sense. Others feel that many of the changes make things more interesting and that while the pricing is not good, ''Scholar'' acts as a new way of playing that improves elements of the game.

* FranchiseOriginalSin: One of the biggest complaints about the game by fans of the first was that it reused many characters, plot points, and themes from the first game rather than creating its own truly unique setting. The same could be said about the first game too, which borrowed many ideas and character archetypes from ''VideoGame/DemonsSouls'', such as the Crestfallen Warrior, the idea of an EternalRecurrence, and the player character being the one to prolong it or let it end. However, because ''Demons Souls'' was held onto by ''Sony'', it meant that the developers couldn't really make a sequel for it when they switched to ''Namco Bandai'', meaning ''Dark Souls'' borrowing many ideas and characters was done to get around any legal issues, plus ''Dark Souls'' created a completely unique world and setting so the game felt distinct and different from ''Demons Souls''. ''II'' however is a straight sequel that borrowed the same concepts without making many of them truly unique, and the games story is another plot about the Age of Fire and the ramifications of it.

* ContestedSequel: While some people enjoy the game, finding it even better than the first thanks to its mechanical improvements, some people hate it, criticizing various aspects of its gameplay design, music, storytelling/lore, and visual aesthetic as uninspired, lazy, and poorly thought-out compared to the first game.[[TakeaThirdOption Some people think it is still a pretty fun game, but just doesn't live up to the memorable experience of the first, even taking Dark Souls 1's flaws into account]]. There isn't really a consensus.

* EvenBetterSequel: ''Not'' the game itself, but the ''Lost Crowns Trilogy'' of DLC adventures, all of which were considered to be a considerable cut above most of the content in the base game in quality.

** The Curse effect has been changed to turn you Hollow without killing you, instead of instantly killing you and decreasing your max health. This is more because, in the first game, Curse and Petrify effects were one and the same. Now, the effects are separated, making Curse far less dangerous but much more common. Petrify remains as dangerous as ever (as well as instantly killing you it causes three times as much hollowing as a normal death- although it's still just normal hollowing and not a permanent curse like in the previous game), and is caused by more enemies than before, too. [[SubvertedTrope So it's not really a Difficulty Drop at all, now that we think about it.]]

* DarknessInducedAudienceApathy: Despite being, ultimately, rather more optimistic than the original and possibly even HighFantasy instead of DarkFantasy, several critics took issue with [=DS2's=] attitude towards failure, highlighting in particular the opening sequence with the old women who taunt you about how you're going to die and lose your souls over and over again and that your failure and degeneration into a mindless hollow is inevitable. They felt the point of ''Dark Souls' ''infamous difficulty was to challenge you to overcome, not beat you into submission, and that the developers had ended up fixating on the "You Died" aspect of the game over "Victory Achieved". This distortion of the original's deliberate and considered design ''ethos'' can be seen in the game's gank fests. Whereas ''Dark Souls'' was generally forthright with the challenges its enemies posed and kept their scale comprehensible,[[note]]though it could be a bit rough in its excecution, particularly towards the end[[/note]] ''Dark Souls II'' just puts more enemies in its levels and places them in ways that surprise and possibly overwhelm the player – or just take time to clear – and justifies the player's deaths with a "This is Dark Souls" trophy, showing its simplistic focus on how you were supposed to "Prepare to Die" in the original.

* ComplacentGamingSyndrome:
** During the early days of Dark Souls II, various melee-hybrid builds focusing on spell buffs were very common due to how much stronger magic damage was.
** This was eventually averted as multiple patches came. The game is usually well remembered for the diversity in character builds that were viable in both PVP and PVE. Add in [[DualWielding powerstancing]] and that adds more to it, even encouraging players to rely less on [[LuckilyMyShieldWillProtectMe turtling.]]

*** The Heide Knight set is much easier to get, minus the Great Helm in some cases, in the ''Scholar of the First Sin'' Edition, where Heide Knights are now actually found in Heide's Tower of Flame, they're also respawning. It's also fully averted with the Visible Aurous set, as a chest containing the full set can now be found in the Gutter.

** The new healing mechanic. You can use your Estus, which has a slowed down animation but heals instantly, or a Lifegem, which heals slowly over time but isn't interrupted. Now, the problem that arises is that one leaves you open to attacks, and the other doesn't, despite its finite quantity. This means that in a way, the Estus is less useful in combat, and more of an "After battle"-heal. The fact that you have a skill (Adaptability) entitled to speeding up the animation, may drive the point further, as to why it's a scrappy mechanic.
** The Soul Memory system: it keeps track of every single soul you obtain. Not bad. The fact that this factors into the level range for co-op summons and invasions? People are crying for it to be patched out because it may hinder co-op summoning severely, and also dramatically increases the chance of being invaded by someone way out of your depth if you've lost a lot of souls.
** Limited respawns for enemies. In ''Dark Souls'', players could infinitely farm areas for gear and more souls than they would ever need. Enemies in ''Dark Souls II'' have a respawn limit of somewhere around 15 (or less/more), making it a double edged sword. On one side, it makes it easier to make trips through the areas and to the bosses since all the "junk" enemies have been eliminated. On the other side, players who get RNG screwed on equipment drops hate the idea of not being able to infinitely farm weak enemies for equipment. There are items to bring these enemies back, however, and the combination of a greater number of enemies and enemies dropping a wider range of random items can make farming viable if the player is patient. Of course, the respawn limit is only for some enemies. It's obvious on paths leading to the bosses, but not all enemies are limited.

** Adaptability. In the first game, your roll had a consistent speed and amount of invincibility frames depending on your equipment burden, however in Dark Souls II you gain more invincibility frames by raising your Agility, which is tied to your Adaptability stat. This has led to many players complaining that rolling to dodge attacks early game is much more frustrating and ineffective, because by default your character has ''less i-frames than the worst roll in the first game'', never mind the fact that you need to invest several level-ups to gain a decent roll at all.

** The Curse effect has been changed to turn you Hollow without killing you, instead of instantly killing you and decreasing your max health. This is more because, in the first game, Curse and Petrify effects were one and the same. Now, the effects are separated, making Curse far less dangerous but much more common. Petrify remains as dangerous as ever (as well as instantly killing you it causes three times as much hollowing as a normal death), and is caused by more enemies than before, too. [[SubvertedTrope So it's not really a Difficulty Drop at all, now that we think about it.]]

** While you still can't summon Phantoms of other players after the boss it beaten, you can still summon Shades, which are otherwise the same except they have a much shorter time limit.

** To be fair to the game, there ''are'' a lot of ways in which it unambiguously improves on its predecessor, most notably the drastically improved menus[[note]]the ability to use an entire stack of soul items at once rather than having to go through them one at a time was particularly appreciated[[/note]], rebalanced stat system[[note]]while Agility was [[ScrappyMechanic disliked by a lot of people]] there was at least no repeat of the [[OneStatToRuleThemAll Endurance]] and [[DumpStat Resistance]] debacle[[/note]], streamlined equipment upgrade system[[note]]they removed the need to use different flavours of titanite to upgrade elemental weapons and unified Infusions at a single blacksmith[[/note]] and improved rolling ability[[note]]in [=DS1=] you could only roll in 4 directions while locked on, in [=DS2=] you can roll freely in any direction[[/note]]. There ''are'' some people who consider [=DS2=] to be a flat-out better game than [=DS1,=] although they are still in the minority.

** Other than a couple of cheap scares from Ogres behind doors and a boss, all the hostiles in Aldia's Keep are behind bars until you decide to pick a fight with them. Then you go to Dragon Aerie, where the dragons won't bother you as long as you don't break their eggs and the pesky explosive undeads are off to the side areas. The Dragon Shrire likewise has only a few duels (on SotFS edition at least), the nearby knights won't attack you unless you chicken out of them, and the Ancient Dragon has no quarrel with you.

** [=PVP=]-oriented players returning from ''Dark Souls'' will find themselves ranting on about the new poise mechanic, which is essentially similar to ''Demons Souls'' (read: NO POISE). Not matter how high that poise number is, even wearing a full Havel set doesn't do much to stop getting stunlocked by spammable weapon attacks.
*** This is an exaggeration; poise ''does'' exist, but it's much weaker, so you can't simply lean on it like a crutch to [[NoSell walk through your opponent's heaviest attacks]] and backstab them while they're trying to recover from their attack animation any more. ''Dark Souls' ''version of poise was generally regarded as [[GameBreaker WAY overpowered]]. ''VideoGame/DarkSoulsIII'' actually ended up much closer to "no poise" than DSII was, with poise almost useless in that game.

** A lot of people attribute the controversy around the game to the fact that it was the only installment in the franchise (''VideoGame/DemonsSouls'' and ''VideoGame/{{Bloodborne}}'' included) to ''not'' be [[OnlyTheCreatorDoesItRight directed by Hidetaka Miyazaki]].
** The documented TroubledProduction is also cited as a reason for many of the decisions leading to the game's divisiveness.

** There's some debate over the implementation of the Lifegems mechanic. Its detractors argue that the original game's healing system was an important part of the game, limiting how much healing a player could get for each bonfire, and thus giving them only a set amount of mistakes. Lifegems, on the other hand, can be obtained in an infinite supply for relatively cheap souls, so a player can load up on them and heal up as often as they like, even during boss battles. Its supporters argue that the Lifegems don't heal fast enough to be very useful in the heat of combat, while also adding a new element of strategy, not to mention preventing those moments where you know you don't have enough Estus to make it to the next bonfire, but have made it too far to go back.

* {{Fanon}}: In line with the ''Souls'' series' tradition of building the lore through the description of various items instead of a narrative, fans took it upon themselves to clean up the iffy bits of the ''Dark Souls'' universe. This is helped by [[WordOfDante credible explanations]] from [[BigNameFan reputable loreists]].

** There's some debate over the implementation of the Lifegems mechanic. Its detractors argue that the original game's healing system was an important part of the game, limiting how much healing a player could get for each bonfire, and thus giving them only a set amount of mistakes. Lifegems, on the other hand, can be gotten in an infinite supply for relatively cheap, so a player can load up on them and heal up as often as they like. Its supporters argue that the lifegems don't heal fast enough to be very useful in the heat of combat, while also adding a new element of strategy, not to mention preventing those moments where you know you don't have enough estus to make it to the next bonfire, but have made it too far to go back.
** The implantation of Valve Anti Cheat for the PC version. Some fans are happy to see some form of anti-cheating measure being in the game, as hacking was a major issue with the PC port of the first game. Having VAC also means that players cannot use any mods that alters the game engine, as they risk being banned. It's terrible for users who wish to use texture and graphic mods.