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** Despite Oliver/Felicity's initial popularity, many of its detractors point out it suffers a degree of this. While the two had a lot of flirtatious chemistry in the beginning, there was not a lot of evidence to suggest the idea of a serious romance or that Oliver actually was in love with Felicity like he claimed to have been at the end of Season Two; Oliver spent the majority of the first two seasons either pining after Laurel or dating Sara (or both), which made his LoveConfession to Felicity come out of the left field for a lot of fans. The treatment of the pairing in the later seasons only worsened the problem, as their relationship was partially built up through a number of {{retcon}}s that downplayed or ignored parts of Oliver's romances with Laurel and Sara, on top of becoming toxic due to [[RomanticPlotTumor the forced drama]] the writers injected into the pairing to [[TrueLoveIsBoring make it more interesting]]. In addition, the writing accidentally highlighted how little Oliver and Felicity actually had in common; take, for example, Felicity recommending Oliver let Thea die rather than become Ra's al Ghul's heir, so they would be able to continue their burgeoning relationship, which was out of alignment with Oliver's consistent portrayal of putting his family, particularly Thea, first. By the time the two got married in Season Six, many fans honestly failed to understand how they were even still together, as the show did a poor job of building up their relationship to a point where a lifelong commitment made sense.
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** Despite Oliver/Felicity's initial popularity, many of its detractors point out it suffers a degree of this. While the two had a lot of flirtatious chemistry in the beginning, there was not a lot of evidence to suggest the idea of a serious romance or that Oliver actually was in love with Felicity like he claimed to have been at the end of Season Two; Oliver spent the majority of the first two seasons either pining after Laurel or dating Sara (or both), which made his LoveConfession to Felicity come out of the left field for a lot of fans. The treatment of the pairing in the later seasons only worsened the problem, as their relationship was partially built up through a number of {{retcon}}s that downplayed or ignored parts of Oliver's romances with Laurel and Sara, Sara rather than build off the character's existing chemistry, making the relationship come off as shoehorned and forced, on top of becoming toxic due to [[RomanticPlotTumor the forced drama]] the writers injected into the pairing to [[TrueLoveIsBoring make it more interesting]]. In addition, the writing accidentally highlighted how little Oliver and Felicity actually had in common; take, for example, Felicity recommending Oliver let Thea die rather than become Ra's al Ghul's heir, so they would be able to continue their burgeoning relationship, which was out of alignment with Oliver's consistent portrayal of putting his family, particularly Thea, first. By the time the two got married in Season Six, many fans honestly failed to understand how they were even still together, as the show did a poor job of building up their relationship to a point where a lifelong commitment made sense.
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** Despite Oliver/Felicity's initial popularity, many of its detractors point out it suffers a degree of this. While the two had a lot of flirtatious chemistry in the beginning, there was not a lot of evidence to suggest the idea of a serious romance or that Oliver actually was in love with Felicity like he claimed to have been at the end of Season Two; Oliver spent the majority of the first two seasons either pining after Laurel or dating Sara (or both), which made his LoveConfession to Felicity come out of the left field for a lot of fans. The treatment of the pairing in the later seasons only worsened the problem, as their relationship was partially built up through a number of {{retcon}}s that downplayed or ignored parts of Oliver's romances with Laurel and Sara, on top of becoming toxic due to [[RomanticPlotTumor the forced drama]] the writers injected into the pairing to [[TrueLoveIsBoring make it more interesting]]. In addition, the writing accidentally highlighted how little Oliver and Felicity actually had in common; take, for example, Felicity recommending Oliver let Thea die rather than become Ra's al Ghul's heir so they can continue their burgeoning relationship, which was out of alignment with Oliver's consistent portrayal of putting his family, particularly Thea, over everything else. By the time the two got married in Season Six, many fans honestly failed to understand how they were even still together, as the show did a poor job of building up their relationship to a point where a lifelong commitment made sense.
to:
** Despite Oliver/Felicity's initial popularity, many of its detractors point out it suffers a degree of this. While the two had a lot of flirtatious chemistry in the beginning, there was not a lot of evidence to suggest the idea of a serious romance or that Oliver actually was in love with Felicity like he claimed to have been at the end of Season Two; Oliver spent the majority of the first two seasons either pining after Laurel or dating Sara (or both), which made his LoveConfession to Felicity come out of the left field for a lot of fans. The treatment of the pairing in the later seasons only worsened the problem, as their relationship was partially built up through a number of {{retcon}}s that downplayed or ignored parts of Oliver's romances with Laurel and Sara, on top of becoming toxic due to [[RomanticPlotTumor the forced drama]] the writers injected into the pairing to [[TrueLoveIsBoring make it more interesting]]. In addition, the writing accidentally highlighted how little Oliver and Felicity actually had in common; take, for example, Felicity recommending Oliver let Thea die rather than become Ra's al Ghul's heir heir, so they can would be able to continue their burgeoning relationship, which was out of alignment with Oliver's consistent portrayal of putting his family, particularly Thea, over everything else.first. By the time the two got married in Season Six, many fans honestly failed to understand how they were even still together, as the show did a poor job of building up their relationship to a point where a lifelong commitment made sense.
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** Despite Oliver/Felicity's initial popularity, many of its detractors point out it suffers a degree of this. While the two had a lot of flirtatious chemistry in the beginning, there was not a lot of evidence to suggest the idea of a serious romance or that Oliver actually was in love with Felicity like he claimed to have been at the end of Season Two; Oliver spent the majority of the first two seasons either pining after Laurel or dating Sara (or both), which made his LoveConfession to Felicity come out of the left field for a lot of fans. The treatment of the pairing in the later seasons only worsened the problem, as their relationship was partially built up through a number of {{retcon}}s that downplayed or ignored parts of Oliver's romances with Laurel and Sara, on top of becoming toxic due to [[RomanticPlotTumor the forced drama]] the writers injected into the pairing to [[TrueLoveIsBoring make it more interesting]]. In addition, the writing accidentally highlighted how little Oliver and Felicity actually had in common; take, for example, Felicity recommending Oliver let Thea die rather than become Ra's al Ghul's heir so they can continue their burgeoning relationship and her poor treatment of her mother, which was out of alignment with Oliver's consistent portrayal of putting his family, particularly Thea, over everything else. By the time the two got married in Season Six, many fans honestly failed to understand how they were even still together, as the show did a poor job of building up their relationship to a point where a lifelong commitment made sense.
to:
** Despite Oliver/Felicity's initial popularity, many of its detractors point out it suffers a degree of this. While the two had a lot of flirtatious chemistry in the beginning, there was not a lot of evidence to suggest the idea of a serious romance or that Oliver actually was in love with Felicity like he claimed to have been at the end of Season Two; Oliver spent the majority of the first two seasons either pining after Laurel or dating Sara (or both), which made his LoveConfession to Felicity come out of the left field for a lot of fans. The treatment of the pairing in the later seasons only worsened the problem, as their relationship was partially built up through a number of {{retcon}}s that downplayed or ignored parts of Oliver's romances with Laurel and Sara, on top of becoming toxic due to [[RomanticPlotTumor the forced drama]] the writers injected into the pairing to [[TrueLoveIsBoring make it more interesting]]. In addition, the writing accidentally highlighted how little Oliver and Felicity actually had in common; take, for example, Felicity recommending Oliver let Thea die rather than become Ra's al Ghul's heir so they can continue their burgeoning relationship and her poor treatment of her mother, relationship, which was out of alignment with Oliver's consistent portrayal of putting his family, particularly Thea, over everything else. By the time the two got married in Season Six, many fans honestly failed to understand how they were even still together, as the show did a poor job of building up their relationship to a point where a lifelong commitment made sense.
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** Despite Oliver/Felicity's initial popularity, many of its detractors point out it suffers a degree of this. While the two had a lot of flirtatious chemistry in the beginning, there was not a lot of evidence to suggest the idea of a serious romance or that Oliver actually was in love with Felicity like he claimed to have been at the end of Season Two; Oliver spent the majority of the first two seasons either pining after Laurel or dating Sara (or both), which made his LoveConfession to Felicity come out of the left field for a lot of fans. The treatment of the pairing in the later seasons only worsened the problem, as their relationship became toxic due to [[RomanticPlotTumor the forced drama]] the writers injected into the pairing to [[TrueLoveIsBoring make it more interesting]], in addition to the writing accidentally highlighting how little Oliver and Felicity actually had in common. By the time the two got married in Season Six, many fans honestly failed to understand how they were even still together, as the show did a poor job of building up their relationship to a point where a lifelong commitment made sense.
to:
** Despite Oliver/Felicity's initial popularity, many of its detractors point out it suffers a degree of this. While the two had a lot of flirtatious chemistry in the beginning, there was not a lot of evidence to suggest the idea of a serious romance or that Oliver actually was in love with Felicity like he claimed to have been at the end of Season Two; Oliver spent the majority of the first two seasons either pining after Laurel or dating Sara (or both), which made his LoveConfession to Felicity come out of the left field for a lot of fans. The treatment of the pairing in the later seasons only worsened the problem, as their relationship became was partially built up through a number of {{retcon}}s that downplayed or ignored parts of Oliver's romances with Laurel and Sara, on top of becoming toxic due to [[RomanticPlotTumor the forced drama]] the writers injected into the pairing to [[TrueLoveIsBoring make it more interesting]], in addition to interesting]]. In addition, the writing accidentally highlighting highlighted how little Oliver and Felicity actually had in common.common; take, for example, Felicity recommending Oliver let Thea die rather than become Ra's al Ghul's heir so they can continue their burgeoning relationship and her poor treatment of her mother, which was out of alignment with Oliver's consistent portrayal of putting his family, particularly Thea, over everything else. By the time the two got married in Season Six, many fans honestly failed to understand how they were even still together, as the show did a poor job of building up their relationship to a point where a lifelong commitment made sense.
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** Despite Oliver/Felicity's initial popularity, many of its detractors point out it suffers a degree of this. While the two had a lot of flirtatious chemistry in the beginning, there was not a lot of evidence to suggest the idea of a serious romance or that Oliver actually was in love with Felicity like he claimed to have been at the end of Season Two; Oliver spent the majority of the first two seasons either pining after Laurel or dating Sara (or both), which made his LoveConfession to Felicity come out of the left field for a lot of fans. The treatment of the pairing in the later seasons only worsened the problem, as their relationship became toxic due to [[RomanticPlotTumor the forced drama]] the writers injected into the pairing to [[TrueLoveIsBoring make it more interesting]], in addition to the writing accidentally highlighting how little Oliver and Felicity actually had in common. By the time the two got married in Season Six, many fans honestly failed to understand how they were even still together, as the show did a poor job of building up their relationship to the point that a lifelong commitment made sense.
to:
** Despite Oliver/Felicity's initial popularity, many of its detractors point out it suffers a degree of this. While the two had a lot of flirtatious chemistry in the beginning, there was not a lot of evidence to suggest the idea of a serious romance or that Oliver actually was in love with Felicity like he claimed to have been at the end of Season Two; Oliver spent the majority of the first two seasons either pining after Laurel or dating Sara (or both), which made his LoveConfession to Felicity come out of the left field for a lot of fans. The treatment of the pairing in the later seasons only worsened the problem, as their relationship became toxic due to [[RomanticPlotTumor the forced drama]] the writers injected into the pairing to [[TrueLoveIsBoring make it more interesting]], in addition to the writing accidentally highlighting how little Oliver and Felicity actually had in common. By the time the two got married in Season Six, many fans honestly failed to understand how they were even still together, as the show did a poor job of building up their relationship to the a point that where a lifelong commitment made sense.
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Adding this example because I've seen and spoken to several fans (Lauriver, Canarrow, or otherwise) who've pointed out that Oliver/Felicity had this issue too, even if people draw less attention to it.
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* StrangledByTheRedString: A lot of people didn't like the attention that the romance between Laurel and Oliver was given in season 1, particularly due to the lack of chemistry between them during that season. It largely isn't helped by how the show pushed their romantic development to the back-burner during the first season due to the lack of fan interest combined with her and Tommy being much better received, thus making the sudden hook-up during the final few episodes of the season feel completely forced. Another part of this issue is that Oliver and Laurel were a couple in the backstory, meaning they technically already had their romantic buildup, so the issue wasn't so much resolving the sexual tension between them as it was reconciling with the baggage of their first relationship. Ironically, it was the seasons after Laurel had been replaced as Oliver's love interest by Felicity that fixed that problem, and by the time of her death, people actually ''wanted'' to see them get back together. Oliver's tearful goodbye to "Laurel" in the ''Invasion!'' crossover (which is considered the definitive end to the ship, now that it's confirmed that E-1 Laurel won't be revived) is still regarded as one of the most heartbreaking scenes in the entire series.
to:
* StrangledByTheRedString: StrangledByTheRedString:
** A lot of people didn't like the attention that the romance between Laurel and Oliver was given in season 1, particularly due to the lack of chemistry between them during that season. It largely isn't helped by how the show pushed their romantic development to the back-burner during the first season due to the lack of fan interest combined with her and Tommy being much better received, thus making the sudden hook-up during the final few episodes of the season feel completely forced. Another part of this issue is that Oliver and Laurel were a couple in the backstory, meaning they technically already had their romantic buildup, so the issue wasn't so much resolving the sexual tension between them as it was reconciling with the baggage of their first relationship. Ironically, it was the seasons after Laurel had been replaced as Oliver's love interest by Felicity that fixed that problem, and by the time of her death, people actually ''wanted'' to see them get back together. Oliver's tearful goodbye to "Laurel" in the ''Invasion!'' crossover (which is considered the definitive end to the ship, now that it's confirmed that E-1 Laurel won't be revived) is still regarded as one of the most heartbreaking scenes in the entireseries.series.
** Despite Oliver/Felicity's initial popularity, many of its detractors point out it suffers a degree of this. While the two had a lot of flirtatious chemistry in the beginning, there was not a lot of evidence to suggest the idea of a serious romance or that Oliver actually was in love with Felicity like he claimed to have been at the end of Season Two; Oliver spent the majority of the first two seasons either pining after Laurel or dating Sara (or both), which made his LoveConfession to Felicity come out of the left field for a lot of fans. The treatment of the pairing in the later seasons only worsened the problem, as their relationship became toxic due to [[RomanticPlotTumor the forced drama]] the writers injected into the pairing to [[TrueLoveIsBoring make it more interesting]], in addition to the writing accidentally highlighting how little Oliver and Felicity actually had in common. By the time the two got married in Season Six, many fans honestly failed to understand how they were even still together, as the show did a poor job of building up their relationship to the point that a lifelong commitment made sense.
** A lot of people didn't like the attention that the romance between Laurel and Oliver was given in season 1, particularly due to the lack of chemistry between them during that season. It largely isn't helped by how the show pushed their romantic development to the back-burner during the first season due to the lack of fan interest combined with her and Tommy being much better received, thus making the sudden hook-up during the final few episodes of the season feel completely forced. Another part of this issue is that Oliver and Laurel were a couple in the backstory, meaning they technically already had their romantic buildup, so the issue wasn't so much resolving the sexual tension between them as it was reconciling with the baggage of their first relationship. Ironically, it was the seasons after Laurel had been replaced as Oliver's love interest by Felicity that fixed that problem, and by the time of her death, people actually ''wanted'' to see them get back together. Oliver's tearful goodbye to "Laurel" in the ''Invasion!'' crossover (which is considered the definitive end to the ship, now that it's confirmed that E-1 Laurel won't be revived) is still regarded as one of the most heartbreaking scenes in the entire
** Despite Oliver/Felicity's initial popularity, many of its detractors point out it suffers a degree of this. While the two had a lot of flirtatious chemistry in the beginning, there was not a lot of evidence to suggest the idea of a serious romance or that Oliver actually was in love with Felicity like he claimed to have been at the end of Season Two; Oliver spent the majority of the first two seasons either pining after Laurel or dating Sara (or both), which made his LoveConfession to Felicity come out of the left field for a lot of fans. The treatment of the pairing in the later seasons only worsened the problem, as their relationship became toxic due to [[RomanticPlotTumor the forced drama]] the writers injected into the pairing to [[TrueLoveIsBoring make it more interesting]], in addition to the writing accidentally highlighting how little Oliver and Felicity actually had in common. By the time the two got married in Season Six, many fans honestly failed to understand how they were even still together, as the show did a poor job of building up their relationship to the point that a lifelong commitment made sense.
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Not YMMV and In Universe Examples Only
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* TrueArtIsAngsty:
** Between the show's first two season finales, "Sacrifice" was much more acclaimed, as it dealt with [[spoiler:Oliver being unable to completely stop the Glades from being destroyed and ended with the death of his best friend]], leaving it very downbeat. While "Unthinkable" was still positively received, most reviewers and fans felt it was the weaker of the two. That episode [[spoiler:ends with Oliver defeating Slade without suffering any more major casualties on his side and without resorting to kill again]], ultimately ending on a much more optimistic note.
** Also seen with the FandomRivalry with ''Series/AgentsOfSHIELD''; fans of ''Arrow'' are ''very'' quick to criticize the other show for its lighter tone and feel (which is ironic, given that the show got a lot darker later). Conversely, AOS fans are quick to fire back with accusing ''Arrow'' of being [[TooBleakStoppedCaring too dark and angsty]].
** Averted with Season 3 which takes a much darker tone than Season 1 and 2 but is viewed as very poorly written and by far one of the weakest seasons.
** Between the show's first two season finales, "Sacrifice" was much more acclaimed, as it dealt with [[spoiler:Oliver being unable to completely stop the Glades from being destroyed and ended with the death of his best friend]], leaving it very downbeat. While "Unthinkable" was still positively received, most reviewers and fans felt it was the weaker of the two. That episode [[spoiler:ends with Oliver defeating Slade without suffering any more major casualties on his side and without resorting to kill again]], ultimately ending on a much more optimistic note.
** Also seen with the FandomRivalry with ''Series/AgentsOfSHIELD''; fans of ''Arrow'' are ''very'' quick to criticize the other show for its lighter tone and feel (which is ironic, given that the show got a lot darker later). Conversely, AOS fans are quick to fire back with accusing ''Arrow'' of being [[TooBleakStoppedCaring too dark and angsty]].
** Averted with Season 3 which takes a much darker tone than Season 1 and 2 but is viewed as very poorly written and by far one of the weakest seasons.
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** The number of stories where Laurel survives past her canonical death and/or is allowed more time to properly develop into being the Black Canary are so many that they're almost a fandom of their own. Most of those stories also see her somehow awaken the Canary Cry (usually by being present during the Particle Accelerator Explosion or by having her metagene activated by some kind of stressful event) as a symptom of that.
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* MoralEventHorizon:
** Helena/The Huntress crosses this in "The Huntress Returns" when she [[spoiler: murders several US Marshals in cold blood while trying to kill her father]]. Assuming that her threatening Oliver's family and friends, and coming close to killing or, at the very least, severely hurting one of them, didn't do it.
** Edward Fyers obliterates the line when he [[spoiler: shoots Yao Fei in the head right in front of his daughter after he fulfilled his end of the bargain]].
** Malcolm Merlyn had a good number of events that could consider this, but toed the line of redemption and became a TokenEvilTeammate (albeit, one most fans were annoyed at). This ends when he [[spoiler: refuses to give up the Demon's Head ring, at the cost of Thea's life, to the point Oliver has to cut off his hand to do it, and responds to Oliver's attempts to spare him by selling him out to Damien Darhk.]]
** Anthony Ivo crosses it when [[spoiler: he offers Oliver a SadisticChoice -- spare Sara or Shado. When Oliver attempts a HeroicSacrifice, he kills Shado out of spite. It's later noted that [[HeHadAName he didn't even know Shado's name]], and it was likely he didn't even care]].
** And as fate would have it, [[spoiler: Slade Wilson crosses it in the same way, mirroring Ivo's SadisticChoice by trying to make Oliver choose between Thea or Moira. However, Moira takes the choice out of Oliver's hands and gets Slade to kill her, leaving her children utterly devastated -- and worse, Slade vows that one more person will die before this is over. This death is especially bad because he makes a point of killing her [[ImpaledWithExtremePrejudice with his sword]] instead of [[BoomHeadshot with the handgun he was thinking of before]], though it could be interpreted as him wanting her to have a clean death, as he seemed compassionate towards her for her sacrifice]].
** Amanda Waller [[spoiler: keeping Oliver from trying to escape her by threatening to kill the wife and young son of one of her employees. Oddly enough, this is chronologically earlier than any of her previous appearances]]. And then it turns out [[spoiler: she was actually TheManBehindTheMan of the first season's island plot, willing to kill a whole plane full of innocent people just to get China White]].
** Maseo [[spoiler: crossed it when he joined the League; he gave Ra's Al-Ghul the Alpha/Omega Virus in order to become a member.]]
** Ra's Al-Ghul officially crosses it [[spoiler: not when he orders his massacre on Starling but when he personally kills Thea in cold blood as the "proper" motivation for Oliver to become his heir.]]
** If [[spoiler: General Shrieve]] hadn't already crossed it [[spoiler: when he ordered his men to murder Oliver and the Yamashiro's]] then he '''definitely''' crossed it [[spoiler: when he released the Alpha/Omega bioweapon in Hong Kong, killing hundreds of people, including [[KillTheCutie Akio]]]].
** Conklin either crosses it when he starts killing labourers to force a confession out of the rest or when he [[spoiler: manipulates Ivan into attacking Oliver by telling him he killed his sister, which forces the latter to kill him in self-defense.]]
** Baron Reiter has a few possible moments, but him [[spoiler: destroying a plane full of his slave labourers who were trying to get away simply to spite Oliver and Taiana and further fuel his magical powers]] is the absolute point of no return.
** If Lonnie Machin didn't cross it when [[spoiler: he tortured the girl he kidnapped even though he had no reason to keep her in his clutches]], then he definitely crossed it when he [[spoiler: tried to kill Damien Darhk's wife and daughter as revenge for firing him]].
** Cupid was an already unhinged, but somewhat sympathetic villainess when first introduced. In Season 4 however, she rolls ''hard'' over the line after deciding that love only leads to death and starts killing innocent couples simply for being happily in love.
** While Damien Darhk had many possible moments, him [[spoiler: killing Laurel Lance just to get back at her dad]] seals the deal of him being a psychopathic bastard.
*** And if at this point you still had any sympathy for him, in "Monument Point" he [[spoiler: destroys the city of Havenrock, killing tens of thousands of people, granting himself considerable magical power in the process.]] And what's worse? [[spoiler: His original plan was to destroy the entire world!]]
** [[spoiler: [[EvilAllAlong Andrew Diggle]]]] crosses it when he leads Team Arrow, [[spoiler: including his own brother]], right into Darhk's hand, [[DoubleReverseQuadrupleAgent having played them all along]].
** [[spoiler: Evelyn Sharp crosses it when she [[DisproportionateRetribution teams up with Prometheus to take down Oliver as revenge for being the Hood,]] and betrays the identities of her teammates in the process. If that failed to put her over the line, her actions in "Kapiushon", where she not only helps Prometheus psychologically torture Oliver, but smugly rubs it in when Oliver finally breaks, certainly does.]]
** If Prometheus doesn't cross it with his serial killings or later [[spoiler: tricking Oliver into killing Billy Malone]], then he ''definitely'' crosses it when he [[spoiler: frees the Black Siren from S.T.A.R. Labs and has her impersonate the Earth-1 Laurel just to [[{{Gaslighting}} screw with]] Team Arrow even more [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown after he's already brought them to the point of hopelessness]] from his prior actions, before [[HopeCrusher ripping this one seeming bright spot in their lives away from them.]] ]] He crosses it even further when he [[spoiler: murders his own wife because SheKnowsTooMuch.]]
** Anatoly crosses it either when he steals diabetes medicine from a struggling company to produce drugs or later during the direct conflict with Oliver when he orders his civilian hostages to be killed, all tragically highlighted with the fact that he used to be the MoralityChain for Oliver and is now just as bad as Ishmael Gregor before him.
** Black Siren has many possible moments, on both ''Arrow'' and ''The Flash'', like for example her sadistic DeadPersonImpersonation game to lure Quentin into Prometheus' trap, but she is definitely over the line by the sixth Season, where she is willing to kill scores of innocent police men just to get to him. However, [[spoiler:Dinah views her killing of Vincent as this, which in turn pushes Dinah over the DespairEventHorizon, and Thea and Quentin seem to lose their hope of redeeming Earth-2 Laurel after they hear of it, too. Ironically, this is inverted for Siren herself as it's one of the first murders she seems [[EvenEvilHasSTandards unnerved by]].]].
** Once [[spoiler:Ricardo Diaz]] is revealed as the true BigBad of Season 6, it is also revealed that he ''already'' crossed the line a year ago by [[spoiler:having Cayden James's son killed and [[FrameUp putting the blame on Oliver]]]], manipulating both parties into a war, all so he could [[spoiler:murder James himself later]] and take over the city.
** In the future, JJ Diggle crosses it by [[spoiler: killing Zoe. Even Connor, who wanted to reform his brother previously, is ready to kill him after this]].
** Helena/The Huntress crosses this in "The Huntress Returns" when she [[spoiler: murders several US Marshals in cold blood while trying to kill her father]]. Assuming that her threatening Oliver's family and friends, and coming close to killing or, at the very least, severely hurting one of them, didn't do it.
** Edward Fyers obliterates the line when he [[spoiler: shoots Yao Fei in the head right in front of his daughter after he fulfilled his end of the bargain]].
** Malcolm Merlyn had a good number of events that could consider this, but toed the line of redemption and became a TokenEvilTeammate (albeit, one most fans were annoyed at). This ends when he [[spoiler: refuses to give up the Demon's Head ring, at the cost of Thea's life, to the point Oliver has to cut off his hand to do it, and responds to Oliver's attempts to spare him by selling him out to Damien Darhk.]]
** Anthony Ivo crosses it when [[spoiler: he offers Oliver a SadisticChoice -- spare Sara or Shado. When Oliver attempts a HeroicSacrifice, he kills Shado out of spite. It's later noted that [[HeHadAName he didn't even know Shado's name]], and it was likely he didn't even care]].
** And as fate would have it, [[spoiler: Slade Wilson crosses it in the same way, mirroring Ivo's SadisticChoice by trying to make Oliver choose between Thea or Moira. However, Moira takes the choice out of Oliver's hands and gets Slade to kill her, leaving her children utterly devastated -- and worse, Slade vows that one more person will die before this is over. This death is especially bad because he makes a point of killing her [[ImpaledWithExtremePrejudice with his sword]] instead of [[BoomHeadshot with the handgun he was thinking of before]], though it could be interpreted as him wanting her to have a clean death, as he seemed compassionate towards her for her sacrifice]].
** Amanda Waller [[spoiler: keeping Oliver from trying to escape her by threatening to kill the wife and young son of one of her employees. Oddly enough, this is chronologically earlier than any of her previous appearances]]. And then it turns out [[spoiler: she was actually TheManBehindTheMan of the first season's island plot, willing to kill a whole plane full of innocent people just to get China White]].
** Maseo [[spoiler: crossed it when he joined the League; he gave Ra's Al-Ghul the Alpha/Omega Virus in order to become a member.]]
** Ra's Al-Ghul officially crosses it [[spoiler: not when he orders his massacre on Starling but when he personally kills Thea in cold blood as the "proper" motivation for Oliver to become his heir.]]
** If [[spoiler: General Shrieve]] hadn't already crossed it [[spoiler: when he ordered his men to murder Oliver and the Yamashiro's]] then he '''definitely''' crossed it [[spoiler: when he released the Alpha/Omega bioweapon in Hong Kong, killing hundreds of people, including [[KillTheCutie Akio]]]].
** Conklin either crosses it when he starts killing labourers to force a confession out of the rest or when he [[spoiler: manipulates Ivan into attacking Oliver by telling him he killed his sister, which forces the latter to kill him in self-defense.]]
** Baron Reiter has a few possible moments, but him [[spoiler: destroying a plane full of his slave labourers who were trying to get away simply to spite Oliver and Taiana and further fuel his magical powers]] is the absolute point of no return.
** If Lonnie Machin didn't cross it when [[spoiler: he tortured the girl he kidnapped even though he had no reason to keep her in his clutches]], then he definitely crossed it when he [[spoiler: tried to kill Damien Darhk's wife and daughter as revenge for firing him]].
** Cupid was an already unhinged, but somewhat sympathetic villainess when first introduced. In Season 4 however, she rolls ''hard'' over the line after deciding that love only leads to death and starts killing innocent couples simply for being happily in love.
** While Damien Darhk had many possible moments, him [[spoiler: killing Laurel Lance just to get back at her dad]] seals the deal of him being a psychopathic bastard.
*** And if at this point you still had any sympathy for him, in "Monument Point" he [[spoiler: destroys the city of Havenrock, killing tens of thousands of people, granting himself considerable magical power in the process.]] And what's worse? [[spoiler: His original plan was to destroy the entire world!]]
** [[spoiler: [[EvilAllAlong Andrew Diggle]]]] crosses it when he leads Team Arrow, [[spoiler: including his own brother]], right into Darhk's hand, [[DoubleReverseQuadrupleAgent having played them all along]].
** [[spoiler: Evelyn Sharp crosses it when she [[DisproportionateRetribution teams up with Prometheus to take down Oliver as revenge for being the Hood,]] and betrays the identities of her teammates in the process. If that failed to put her over the line, her actions in "Kapiushon", where she not only helps Prometheus psychologically torture Oliver, but smugly rubs it in when Oliver finally breaks, certainly does.]]
** If Prometheus doesn't cross it with his serial killings or later [[spoiler: tricking Oliver into killing Billy Malone]], then he ''definitely'' crosses it when he [[spoiler: frees the Black Siren from S.T.A.R. Labs and has her impersonate the Earth-1 Laurel just to [[{{Gaslighting}} screw with]] Team Arrow even more [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown after he's already brought them to the point of hopelessness]] from his prior actions, before [[HopeCrusher ripping this one seeming bright spot in their lives away from them.]] ]] He crosses it even further when he [[spoiler: murders his own wife because SheKnowsTooMuch.]]
** Anatoly crosses it either when he steals diabetes medicine from a struggling company to produce drugs or later during the direct conflict with Oliver when he orders his civilian hostages to be killed, all tragically highlighted with the fact that he used to be the MoralityChain for Oliver and is now just as bad as Ishmael Gregor before him.
** Black Siren has many possible moments, on both ''Arrow'' and ''The Flash'', like for example her sadistic DeadPersonImpersonation game to lure Quentin into Prometheus' trap, but she is definitely over the line by the sixth Season, where she is willing to kill scores of innocent police men just to get to him. However, [[spoiler:Dinah views her killing of Vincent as this, which in turn pushes Dinah over the DespairEventHorizon, and Thea and Quentin seem to lose their hope of redeeming Earth-2 Laurel after they hear of it, too. Ironically, this is inverted for Siren herself as it's one of the first murders she seems [[EvenEvilHasSTandards unnerved by]].]].
** Once [[spoiler:Ricardo Diaz]] is revealed as the true BigBad of Season 6, it is also revealed that he ''already'' crossed the line a year ago by [[spoiler:having Cayden James's son killed and [[FrameUp putting the blame on Oliver]]]], manipulating both parties into a war, all so he could [[spoiler:murder James himself later]] and take over the city.
** In the future, JJ Diggle crosses it by [[spoiler: killing Zoe. Even Connor, who wanted to reform his brother previously, is ready to kill him after this]].
to:
* MoralEventHorizon:
** Helena/The Huntress crosses this in "The Huntress Returns" when she [[spoiler: murders several US Marshals in cold blood while trying to kill her father]]. Assuming that her threatening Oliver's family and friends, and coming close to killing or, at the very least, severely hurting one of them, didn't do it.
** Edward Fyers obliterates the line when he [[spoiler: shoots Yao Fei in the head right in front of his daughter after he fulfilled his end of the bargain]].
** Malcolm Merlyn had a good number of events that could consider this, but toed the line of redemption and became a TokenEvilTeammate (albeit, one most fans were annoyed at). This ends when he [[spoiler: refuses to give up the Demon's Head ring, at the cost of Thea's life, to the point Oliver has to cut off his hand to do it, and responds to Oliver's attempts to spare him by selling him out to Damien Darhk.]]
** Anthony Ivo crosses it when [[spoiler: he offers Oliver a SadisticChoice -- spare Sara or Shado. When Oliver attempts a HeroicSacrifice, he kills Shado out of spite. It's later noted that [[HeHadAName he didn't even know Shado's name]], and it was likely he didn't even care]].
** And as fate would have it, [[spoiler: Slade Wilson crosses it in the same way, mirroring Ivo's SadisticChoice by trying to make Oliver choose between Thea or Moira. However, Moira takes the choice out of Oliver's hands and gets Slade to kill her, leaving her children utterly devastated -- and worse, Slade vows that one more person will die before this is over. This death is especially bad because he makes a point of killing her [[ImpaledWithExtremePrejudice with his sword]] instead of [[BoomHeadshot with the handgun he was thinking of before]], though it could be interpreted as him wanting her to have a clean death, as he seemed compassionate towards her for her sacrifice]].
** Amanda Waller [[spoiler: keeping Oliver from trying to escape her by threatening to kill the wife and young son of one of her employees. Oddly enough, this is chronologically earlier than any of her previous appearances]]. And then it turns out [[spoiler: she was actually TheManBehindTheMan of the first season's island plot, willing to kill a whole plane full of innocent people just to get China White]].
** Maseo [[spoiler: crossed it when he joined the League; he gave Ra's Al-Ghul the Alpha/Omega Virus in order to become a member.]]
** Ra's Al-Ghul officially crosses it [[spoiler: not when he orders his massacre on Starling but when he personally kills Thea in cold blood as the "proper" motivation for Oliver to become his heir.]]
** If [[spoiler: General Shrieve]] hadn't already crossed it [[spoiler: when he ordered his men to murder Oliver and the Yamashiro's]] then he '''definitely''' crossed it [[spoiler: when he released the Alpha/Omega bioweapon in Hong Kong, killing hundreds of people, including [[KillTheCutie Akio]]]].
** Conklin either crosses it when he starts killing labourers to force a confession out of the rest or when he [[spoiler: manipulates Ivan into attacking Oliver by telling him he killed his sister, which forces the latter to kill him in self-defense.]]
** Baron Reiter has a few possible moments, but him [[spoiler: destroying a plane full of his slave labourers who were trying to get away simply to spite Oliver and Taiana and further fuel his magical powers]] is the absolute point of no return.
** If Lonnie Machin didn't cross it when [[spoiler: he tortured the girl he kidnapped even though he had no reason to keep her in his clutches]], then he definitely crossed it when he [[spoiler: tried to kill Damien Darhk's wife and daughter as revenge for firing him]].
** Cupid was an already unhinged, but somewhat sympathetic villainess when first introduced. In Season 4 however, she rolls ''hard'' over the line after deciding that love only leads to death and starts killing innocent couples simply for being happily in love.
** While Damien Darhk had many possible moments, him [[spoiler: killing Laurel Lance just to get back at her dad]] seals the deal of him being a psychopathic bastard.
*** And if at this point you still had any sympathy for him, in "Monument Point" he [[spoiler: destroys the city of Havenrock, killing tens of thousands of people, granting himself considerable magical power in the process.]] And what's worse? [[spoiler: His original plan was to destroy the entire world!]]
** [[spoiler: [[EvilAllAlong Andrew Diggle]]]] crosses it when he leads Team Arrow, [[spoiler: including his own brother]], right into Darhk's hand, [[DoubleReverseQuadrupleAgent having played them all along]].
** [[spoiler: Evelyn Sharp crosses it when she [[DisproportionateRetribution teams up with Prometheus to take down Oliver as revenge for being the Hood,]] and betrays the identities of her teammates in the process. If that failed to put her over the line, her actions in "Kapiushon", where she not only helps Prometheus psychologically torture Oliver, but smugly rubs it in when Oliver finally breaks, certainly does.]]
** If Prometheus doesn't cross it with his serial killings or later [[spoiler: tricking Oliver into killing Billy Malone]], then he ''definitely'' crosses it when he [[spoiler: frees the Black Siren from S.T.A.R. Labs and has her impersonate the Earth-1 Laurel just to [[{{Gaslighting}} screw with]] Team Arrow even more [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown after he's already brought them to the point of hopelessness]] from his prior actions, before [[HopeCrusher ripping this one seeming bright spot in their lives away from them.]] ]] He crosses it even further when he [[spoiler: murders his own wife because SheKnowsTooMuch.]]
** Anatoly crosses it either when he steals diabetes medicine from a struggling company to produce drugs or later during the direct conflict with Oliver when he orders his civilian hostages to be killed, all tragically highlighted with the fact that he used to be the MoralityChain for Oliver and is now just as bad as Ishmael Gregor before him.
** Black Siren has many possible moments, on both ''Arrow'' and ''The Flash'', like for example her sadistic DeadPersonImpersonation game to lure Quentin into Prometheus' trap, but she is definitely over the line by the sixth Season, where she is willing to kill scores of innocent police men just to get to him. However, [[spoiler:Dinah views her killing of Vincent as this, which in turn pushes Dinah over the DespairEventHorizon, and Thea and Quentin seem to lose their hope of redeeming Earth-2 Laurel after they hear of it, too. Ironically, this is inverted for Siren herself as it's one of the first murders she seems [[EvenEvilHasSTandards unnerved by]].]].
** Once [[spoiler:Ricardo Diaz]] is revealed as the true BigBad of Season 6, it is also revealed that he ''already'' crossed the line a year ago by [[spoiler:having Cayden James's son killed and [[FrameUp putting the blame on Oliver]]]], manipulating both parties into a war, all so he could [[spoiler:murder James himself later]] and take over the city.
** In the future, JJ Diggle crosses it by [[spoiler: killing Zoe. Even Connor, who wanted to reform his brother previously, is ready to kill him after this]].MoralEventHorizon: See [[MoralEventHorizon/{{Arrowverse}} here]].
** Helena/The Huntress crosses this in "The Huntress Returns" when she [[spoiler: murders several US Marshals in cold blood while trying to kill her father]]. Assuming that her threatening Oliver's family and friends, and coming close to killing or, at the very least, severely hurting one of them, didn't do it.
** Edward Fyers obliterates the line when he [[spoiler: shoots Yao Fei in the head right in front of his daughter after he fulfilled his end of the bargain]].
** Malcolm Merlyn had a good number of events that could consider this, but toed the line of redemption and became a TokenEvilTeammate (albeit, one most fans were annoyed at). This ends when he [[spoiler: refuses to give up the Demon's Head ring, at the cost of Thea's life, to the point Oliver has to cut off his hand to do it, and responds to Oliver's attempts to spare him by selling him out to Damien Darhk.]]
** Anthony Ivo crosses it when [[spoiler: he offers Oliver a SadisticChoice -- spare Sara or Shado. When Oliver attempts a HeroicSacrifice, he kills Shado out of spite. It's later noted that [[HeHadAName he didn't even know Shado's name]], and it was likely he didn't even care]].
** And as fate would have it, [[spoiler: Slade Wilson crosses it in the same way, mirroring Ivo's SadisticChoice by trying to make Oliver choose between Thea or Moira. However, Moira takes the choice out of Oliver's hands and gets Slade to kill her, leaving her children utterly devastated -- and worse, Slade vows that one more person will die before this is over. This death is especially bad because he makes a point of killing her [[ImpaledWithExtremePrejudice with his sword]] instead of [[BoomHeadshot with the handgun he was thinking of before]], though it could be interpreted as him wanting her to have a clean death, as he seemed compassionate towards her for her sacrifice]].
** Amanda Waller [[spoiler: keeping Oliver from trying to escape her by threatening to kill the wife and young son of one of her employees. Oddly enough, this is chronologically earlier than any of her previous appearances]]. And then it turns out [[spoiler: she was actually TheManBehindTheMan of the first season's island plot, willing to kill a whole plane full of innocent people just to get China White]].
** Maseo [[spoiler: crossed it when he joined the League; he gave Ra's Al-Ghul the Alpha/Omega Virus in order to become a member.]]
** Ra's Al-Ghul officially crosses it [[spoiler: not when he orders his massacre on Starling but when he personally kills Thea in cold blood as the "proper" motivation for Oliver to become his heir.]]
** If [[spoiler: General Shrieve]] hadn't already crossed it [[spoiler: when he ordered his men to murder Oliver and the Yamashiro's]] then he '''definitely''' crossed it [[spoiler: when he released the Alpha/Omega bioweapon in Hong Kong, killing hundreds of people, including [[KillTheCutie Akio]]]].
** Conklin either crosses it when he starts killing labourers to force a confession out of the rest or when he [[spoiler: manipulates Ivan into attacking Oliver by telling him he killed his sister, which forces the latter to kill him in self-defense.]]
** Baron Reiter has a few possible moments, but him [[spoiler: destroying a plane full of his slave labourers who were trying to get away simply to spite Oliver and Taiana and further fuel his magical powers]] is the absolute point of no return.
** If Lonnie Machin didn't cross it when [[spoiler: he tortured the girl he kidnapped even though he had no reason to keep her in his clutches]], then he definitely crossed it when he [[spoiler: tried to kill Damien Darhk's wife and daughter as revenge for firing him]].
** Cupid was an already unhinged, but somewhat sympathetic villainess when first introduced. In Season 4 however, she rolls ''hard'' over the line after deciding that love only leads to death and starts killing innocent couples simply for being happily in love.
** While Damien Darhk had many possible moments, him [[spoiler: killing Laurel Lance just to get back at her dad]] seals the deal of him being a psychopathic bastard.
*** And if at this point you still had any sympathy for him, in "Monument Point" he [[spoiler: destroys the city of Havenrock, killing tens of thousands of people, granting himself considerable magical power in the process.]] And what's worse? [[spoiler: His original plan was to destroy the entire world!]]
** [[spoiler: [[EvilAllAlong Andrew Diggle]]]] crosses it when he leads Team Arrow, [[spoiler: including his own brother]], right into Darhk's hand, [[DoubleReverseQuadrupleAgent having played them all along]].
** [[spoiler: Evelyn Sharp crosses it when she [[DisproportionateRetribution teams up with Prometheus to take down Oliver as revenge for being the Hood,]] and betrays the identities of her teammates in the process. If that failed to put her over the line, her actions in "Kapiushon", where she not only helps Prometheus psychologically torture Oliver, but smugly rubs it in when Oliver finally breaks, certainly does.]]
** If Prometheus doesn't cross it with his serial killings or later [[spoiler: tricking Oliver into killing Billy Malone]], then he ''definitely'' crosses it when he [[spoiler: frees the Black Siren from S.T.A.R. Labs and has her impersonate the Earth-1 Laurel just to [[{{Gaslighting}} screw with]] Team Arrow even more [[KickThemWhileTheyAreDown after he's already brought them to the point of hopelessness]] from his prior actions, before [[HopeCrusher ripping this one seeming bright spot in their lives away from them.]] ]] He crosses it even further when he [[spoiler: murders his own wife because SheKnowsTooMuch.]]
** Anatoly crosses it either when he steals diabetes medicine from a struggling company to produce drugs or later during the direct conflict with Oliver when he orders his civilian hostages to be killed, all tragically highlighted with the fact that he used to be the MoralityChain for Oliver and is now just as bad as Ishmael Gregor before him.
** Black Siren has many possible moments, on both ''Arrow'' and ''The Flash'', like for example her sadistic DeadPersonImpersonation game to lure Quentin into Prometheus' trap, but she is definitely over the line by the sixth Season, where she is willing to kill scores of innocent police men just to get to him. However, [[spoiler:Dinah views her killing of Vincent as this, which in turn pushes Dinah over the DespairEventHorizon, and Thea and Quentin seem to lose their hope of redeeming Earth-2 Laurel after they hear of it, too. Ironically, this is inverted for Siren herself as it's one of the first murders she seems [[EvenEvilHasSTandards unnerved by]].]].
** Once [[spoiler:Ricardo Diaz]] is revealed as the true BigBad of Season 6, it is also revealed that he ''already'' crossed the line a year ago by [[spoiler:having Cayden James's son killed and [[FrameUp putting the blame on Oliver]]]], manipulating both parties into a war, all so he could [[spoiler:murder James himself later]] and take over the city.
** In the future, JJ Diggle crosses it by [[spoiler: killing Zoe. Even Connor, who wanted to reform his brother previously, is ready to kill him after this]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Fan Nickname can only come from fans not detractors.
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** Laurel has been given nicknames such as {{Blackmail}} Canary (due to her habit to use blackmail on Kate Spencer during the latter half of Season 2) or Fakanary (thanks to some people considering that Sara is the show's true ComicBook/BlackCanary) and now Buckles (thanks to the endless straps on her Black Canary costume). The Fakanary "mantle" was then passed on to Evelyn Sharp in Season 4 and then ultimately to Tina Boland in Season 5.
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** Laurel has been given nicknames such as {{Blackmail}} Canary (due to her habit to use blackmail on Kate Spencer during the latter half of Season 2) or Fakanary (thanks to some people considering that Sara is the show's true ComicBook/BlackCanary) and now nickname Buckles (thanks to the endless straps on her Black Canary costume). The Fakanary "mantle" was then passed on to Evelyn Sharp in Season 4 and then ultimately to Tina Boland in Season 5.
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Changed line(s) 101 (click to see context) from:
** Felicity gets a lot of hate in the later seasons from those who ship Oliver with anyone else. A lot of shippers want Felicity to be KilledOffForReal, writing fanfics where she dies unloved as Oliver moves on with Laurel or Sara. These shippers like to take any slightly selfish action that Felicity performs, even if it comes as a result of Oliver being selfish as well, and treat it like her turning pure evil. A lot of these fans write fanfics where Felicity is a supervillain who is only pretending to be nice and manipulating or brainwashing Oliver, who needs to be saved from by one of his far better love interests. These shippers also like to portray her as a ClingyJealousGirl who attacks anyone who gets close to Oliver, despite this rarely actually happening on the show. On some level this is justified, as the later seasons are when Felicity's character TookALevelInJerkass and became the biggest BaseBreakingCharacter in the fandom (to the point of becoming the most hated character in the ''entire franchise'' at one point), but the extent many fans go to rip her apart for her actions can be extreme.
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** Felicity gets a lot of hate in the later seasons from those who ship Oliver with anyone else. A lot of shippers want Felicity to be KilledOffForReal, writing fanfics where she dies unloved as Oliver moves on with Laurel or Sara. These shippers like to take any slightly selfish action that Felicity performs, even if it comes as a result of Oliver being selfish as well, and treat it like her turning pure evil. A lot of these fans write fanfics where Felicity is a supervillain who is only pretending to be nice and manipulating or brainwashing Oliver, who needs to be saved from by one of his far better love interests. These shippers also like to portray her as a ClingyJealousGirl who attacks anyone who gets close to Oliver, despite this rarely actually happening on the show. On some level this is justified, as the later seasons are when Felicity's character TookALevelInJerkass and became the biggest While a BaseBreakingCharacter in the fandom (to the point of becoming the most hated character in the ''entire franchise'' at one point), but fandom, the extent many fans go to rip her apart for her actions can be extreme.
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Deleted line(s) 148 (click to see context) :
** Many members of Felicity's well-known hatedom likes to call her "[=FeFe=]", an insulting nickname that resembles a pet name one might use for a significant other, used to mock her overly-emotional outbursts and the soap opera-esque drama of her relationship with Oliver.
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None
Changed line(s) 101 (click to see context) from:
** Felicity gets a lot of hate in the later seasons from those who ship Oliver with anyone else. A lot of shippers want Felicity to be KilledOffForReal, writing fanfics where she dies unloved as Oliver moves on with Laurel or Sara. These shippers like to take any slightly selfish action that Felicity performs, even if it comes as a result of Oliver being selfish as well, and treat it like her turning pure evil. A lot of these fans write fanfics where Felicity is a supervillain who is only pretending to be nice and manipulating or brainwashing Oliver, who needs to be saved from by one of his far better love interests. These shippers also like to portray her as a ClingyJealousGirl who attacks anyone who gets close to Oliver, despite this rarely actually happening on the show.
to:
** Felicity gets a lot of hate in the later seasons from those who ship Oliver with anyone else. A lot of shippers want Felicity to be KilledOffForReal, writing fanfics where she dies unloved as Oliver moves on with Laurel or Sara. These shippers like to take any slightly selfish action that Felicity performs, even if it comes as a result of Oliver being selfish as well, and treat it like her turning pure evil. A lot of these fans write fanfics where Felicity is a supervillain who is only pretending to be nice and manipulating or brainwashing Oliver, who needs to be saved from by one of his far better love interests. These shippers also like to portray her as a ClingyJealousGirl who attacks anyone who gets close to Oliver, despite this rarely actually happening on the show. On some level this is justified, as the later seasons are when Felicity's character TookALevelInJerkass and became the biggest BaseBreakingCharacter in the fandom (to the point of becoming the most hated character in the ''entire franchise'' at one point), but the extent many fans go to rip her apart for her actions can be extreme.
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None
Changed line(s) 148 (click to see context) from:
** Many of Felicity's well-known hatedom likes to call her "[=FeFe=]", an insulting nickname that resembles a pet name one might use for a significant other, used to mock her overly-emotional outbursts and the soap opera-esque drama of her relationship with Oliver.
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** Many members of Felicity's well-known hatedom likes to call her "[=FeFe=]", an insulting nickname that resembles a pet name one might use for a significant other, used to mock her overly-emotional outbursts and the soap opera-esque drama of her relationship with Oliver.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 148 (click to see context) from:
** Many of Felicity's well-known hatedom likes to call her "FeFe", an insulting nickname used to mock her overly-emotional outbursts and soap opera-esque drama of her relationship with Oliver.
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** Many of Felicity's well-known hatedom likes to call her "FeFe", "[=FeFe=]", an insulting nickname that resembles a pet name one might use for a significant other, used to mock her overly-emotional outbursts and the soap opera-esque drama of her relationship with Oliver.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
** Many of Felicity's well-known hatedom likes to call her "FeFe", an insulting nickname used to mock her overly-emotional outbursts and soap opera-esque drama of her relationship with Oliver.
Changed line(s) 156 (click to see context) from:
** Another frequent story is someone else other than Sara being on the ''Gambit'' with Oliver before it sank. Laurel is the most common substitution, with Tommy and/or Thea coming in close second.
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** Another frequent story is someone else other than Sara being on the ''Gambit'' with Oliver before it sank. Laurel is the most common substitution, in order to facilitate her transformation into Black Canary sooner, with Tommy and/or Thea coming in close second.
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Changed line(s) 16 (click to see context) from:
*** After ''Crisis on Earth-X'', a lot of people question whether or not Felicity truly loves Oliver or [[LovingAShadow loves the idea of being the Green Arrow's significant other]]. This is because during the crossover, Eobard Thawne gave her a ReasonYouSuckSpeech revealing that [[TakeThatScrappy no one remembers her in the heroic tales of Green Arrow, Black Canary, and the Flash]], inadvertently casting a very dark pall over her actions from then out. Felicity, who had spent the majority of her screen time during the crossover bitching about how she didn't want to marry Oliver, then changed her mind at the end and [[NeverLiveItDown tacked on their wedding to Barry and Iris']], going as far as to interrupt ''their wedding vows''. Many strongly believe she did this because [[AttentionWhore she wanted to be remembered as the Green Arrow's wife]] rather than any earnest desire to marry Oliver. Considering the sheer selfishness of the act, and many of Felicity's past attention-seeking antics (such as her jealousy for Sara after she first joined the team and Dig having to reassure her that she'll always be "special" to Oliver), this interpretation of her actions was not entirely rooted in the bias her already sizable hatedom had against her.
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*** After ''Crisis on Earth-X'', a lot of people question whether or not Felicity truly loves Oliver or [[LovingAShadow loves the idea of being the Green Arrow's significant other]]. This is because during the crossover, Eobard Thawne gave her a ReasonYouSuckSpeech revealing that [[TakeThatScrappy no one remembers her in the heroic tales of Green Arrow, Black Canary, and the Flash]], inadvertently casting a very dark pall over her actions from then out. Felicity, who had spent the majority of her screen time during the crossover bitching about how she didn't want to marry Oliver, then changed her mind at the end and [[NeverLiveItDown tacked on their wedding to Barry and Iris']], going as far as to interrupt ''their wedding vows''. Many strongly believe she did this because [[AttentionWhore she wanted to be remembered as the Green Arrow's wife]] rather than any earnest desire to marry Oliver. Considering the sheer selfishness of the act, and many of Felicity's past attention-seeking antics (such as her jealousy for Sara after she first joined the team and Dig having to reassure her that she'll always be "special" to Oliver), Oliver, in addition due to her constant need for flattery), this interpretation of her actions was not entirely rooted in the bias her already sizable hatedom had against her.
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** Felicity Smoak in Seasons 1 and 2 was an {{Adorkable}} IT Girl and the source of a lot of the show's humor. As of the third season, she has taken on several of the traits that once led to Laurel and Thea being polarizing, is consistently depicted as being in the right, and has had large amount of screen-time dedicated to her subplots. In comparison, Diggle (Oliver's [[TheLancer longest running ally]]) only received a proper subplot in Season 4 because it was tied so closely to the main plot. The showrunners and most of the writers openly acknowledge that she's their favorite character. This treatment continued until Season 6, even as Felicity became more controversial.
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** Felicity Smoak in Seasons 1 and 2 was an {{Adorkable}} IT Girl and the source of a lot of the show's humor. As of the third season, she has taken on several of the traits that once led to Laurel and Thea being polarizing, is consistently depicted as being in the right, and has had large amount of screen-time dedicated to her subplots. In comparison, Diggle (Oliver's [[TheLancer longest running ally]]) only received a proper subplot in Season 4 because it was tied so closely to the main plot. The showrunners and most of the writers openly acknowledge that she's their favorite character. This treatment continued until Season 6, even as Felicity became more controversial.controversial, and culminated in the ultimate NeverLiveItDown moment: the double wedding, which many fans still haven't forgiven the character for to this very day.
Changed line(s) 400 (click to see context) from:
** Felicity's constant {{Wangst}} in Seasons 3 and 4 is often used by her detractors to paint her in the same manner as Laurel. Also, in ''Series/CrisisOnEarthX'', her abrupt decision to tack on their wedding to Barry and Iris's, which also served as this for the Olicity ship as a whole and permanently characterized her as "selfish" for several portions of the fandom.
to:
** Felicity's constant {{Wangst}} in Seasons 3 and 4 is often used by her detractors to paint her in the same manner as Laurel. Also, in ''Series/CrisisOnEarthX'', her abrupt decision to tack on their wedding to Barry and Iris's, which also served as this for the Olicity ship as a whole and permanently characterized her as "selfish" and helped kill the popularity of the Olicity ship for several portions of the fandom. fandom.
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** After the introduction of Mia Smoak, Oliver and Felicity's canon daughter, there's an increase in fan fic where she's the daughter of [[FanPreferredCouple Oliver and Sara]] instead. This is due to Olicity's unpopularity and Mia resembling Sara more, both physically and personality-wise.
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** After the introduction of Mia Smoak, Oliver and Felicity's canon daughter, there's an increase in fan fic where she's the daughter of [[FanPreferredCouple Oliver and Sara]] instead. This is due to Olicity's unpopularity and Mia resembling Sara more, both physically and personality-wise. There's also a few fics that have her as the daughter of Oliver and ''Laurel'' instead (most notably ''Fanfic/InfinityCrisis''), which makes sense as Laurel is Sara's sister, so having a daughter that resembles Sara isn't entirely out of the realm of possibility.
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None
Changed line(s) 16 (click to see context) from:
*** After ''Crisis on Earth-X'', a lot of people question whether or not Felicity truly loves Oliver or [[LovingAShadow loves the idea of being the Green Arrow's significant other]]. This is because during the crossover, Eobard Thawne gave her a ReasonYouSuckSpeech revealing that [[TakeThatScrappy no one remembers her in the heroic tales of Green Arrow, Black Canary, and the Flash]], inadvertently casting a very dark pall over her actions from then out. Felicity, who had spent the majority of her screen time during the crossover bitching about how she didn't want to marry Oliver, then changed her mind at the end and [[NeverLiveItDown tacked on their wedding to Barry and Iris']], going as far as to interrupt ''their wedding vows''. Many strongly believe she did this because she wanted to be remembered as the Green Arrow's wife rather than any earnest desire to marry Oliver. Considering the sheer selfishness of the act, this interpretation of her actions was not entirely rooted in the bias her already sizable hatedom had against her.
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*** After ''Crisis on Earth-X'', a lot of people question whether or not Felicity truly loves Oliver or [[LovingAShadow loves the idea of being the Green Arrow's significant other]]. This is because during the crossover, Eobard Thawne gave her a ReasonYouSuckSpeech revealing that [[TakeThatScrappy no one remembers her in the heroic tales of Green Arrow, Black Canary, and the Flash]], inadvertently casting a very dark pall over her actions from then out. Felicity, who had spent the majority of her screen time during the crossover bitching about how she didn't want to marry Oliver, then changed her mind at the end and [[NeverLiveItDown tacked on their wedding to Barry and Iris']], going as far as to interrupt ''their wedding vows''. Many strongly believe she did this because [[AttentionWhore she wanted to be remembered as the Green Arrow's wife wife]] rather than any earnest desire to marry Oliver. Considering the sheer selfishness of the act, and many of Felicity's past attention-seeking antics (such as her jealousy for Sara after she first joined the team and Dig having to reassure her that she'll always be "special" to Oliver), this interpretation of her actions was not entirely rooted in the bias her already sizable hatedom had against her.
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* RomanticPlotTumor: A common criticism of the show is how much unneeded drama is mined from romantic foibles, especially Oliver Queen's, mostly because a lot of it comes down to one party lecturing the other (often with them presented as right to do so, [[InformedWrongness while the audience often disagrees]]) or them arguing over issues that could be avoided by talking it out like adults. Oliver/Laurel was the first to get flak for this with cheating, sleeping with the sibling, love triangles, and romantic angst. Oliver/Felicity got this after becoming canon, becoming a huge part of the show and many finding it causing a negative effect on Felicity's character. In fact, Oliver/Felicity became so controversial that some jumped ship Oliver/Laurel. It's an oft-cited reason for the extremely poor quality of ''Arrow'' [[SeasonalRot Season Four]], which is ofte regarded as the worst season of not just ''Arrow'', as their romantic drama completely dominated that season.
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* RomanticPlotTumor: A common criticism of the show is how much unneeded drama is mined from romantic foibles, especially Oliver Queen's, mostly because a lot of it comes down to one party lecturing the other (often with them presented as right to do so, [[InformedWrongness while the audience often disagrees]]) or them arguing over issues that could be avoided by talking it out like adults. Oliver/Laurel was the first to get flak for this with cheating, sleeping with the sibling, love triangles, and romantic angst. Oliver/Felicity got this after becoming canon, becoming a huge part of the show and many finding it causing a negative effect on Felicity's character. In fact, Oliver/Felicity became so controversial that some many jumped ship to Oliver/Laurel. It's an oft-cited reason for the extremely poor quality of ''Arrow'' [[SeasonalRot Season Four]], which is ofte regarded oft-regarded as the worst season of not just ''Arrow'', but the entire franchise, as their romantic drama completely dominated that season.
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** Felicity's constant {{Wangst}} in Seasons 3 and 4 is often used by her detractors to paint her in the same manner as Laurel. Also, in ''Series/CrisisOnEarthX'', her abrupt decision to tack on their wedding to Barry and Iris's.
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** Felicity's constant {{Wangst}} in Seasons 3 and 4 is often used by her detractors to paint her in the same manner as Laurel. Also, in ''Series/CrisisOnEarthX'', her abrupt decision to tack on their wedding to Barry and Iris's.Iris's, which also served as this for the Olicity ship as a whole and permanently characterized her as "selfish" for several portions of the fandom.
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** William, Oliver's son. Mainly because he's less a character and more of a plot device to create unnecessary drama between Felicity and Oliver. Not to mention that he ''won't'' carry on his father's legacy as the Green Arrow. That honor goes to John Diggle Jr., [[spoiler:at least in one timeline. TheScrappy status only applies to present!William, not future William.]]
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** William, Oliver's son. Mainly because he's less a character and more of a plot device to create unnecessary drama between Felicity and Oliver. And it doesn't help that he's mostly portrayed as a sulky teen with no small degree of ItsAllAboutMe, which may be typical for a kid his age who's been through what he has, but it doesn't make it any more fun to watch. Not to mention that he ''won't'' carry on his father's legacy as the Green Arrow. That honor goes to John Diggle Jr., [[spoiler:at least in one timeline. TheScrappy status only applies to present!William, not future William.]]
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ok this whole paragraph is just taking felicity hate to ron the death eater levels; we can just mention the double wedding and leave it at that
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** Felicity's constant {{Wangst}} in Seasons 3 and 4 is often used by her detractors to paint her in the same manner as Laurel. Of course, then ''Series/CrisisOnEarthX'' happened, and by that point everyone went from "weak-willed" to "selfish bitch", and unlike the former, ''everyone'' except her most diehard supporters agreed with this opinion. This action debased all of the writers' CharacterShilling and attempted redemption of Felicity's character for the past season and a half, because for all her supposed "selflessness", only an extremely self-centered and selfish person would've ever considered doing what Felicity did to Barry and Iris. Not helping the matter is that during that same crossover, Eobard Thawne made a TakeThatScrappy speech where he revealed in the future, ''no one'' remembers Felicity in the heroic tales of Green Arrow, Black Canary, and the Flash, [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation inadvertently insinuating that she only married Oliver so she could be remembered as his wife]], which would only be supported by her abrupt decision to tack on their wedding to Barry and Iris'. Even to this day, when fans are trying to give Felicity a chance again, one only has to bring up the double wedding for them to instantly hate her again. Ultimately, this moment ensured she was never getting out of the scrappy heap and she remained tolerated at best for the rest of her time on the show.
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** Felicity's constant {{Wangst}} in Seasons 3 and 4 is often used by her detractors to paint her in the same manner as Laurel. Of course, then ''Series/CrisisOnEarthX'' happened, and by that point everyone went from "weak-willed" to "selfish bitch", and unlike the former, ''everyone'' except her most diehard supporters agreed with this opinion. This action debased all of the writers' CharacterShilling and attempted redemption of Felicity's character for the past season and a half, because for all her supposed "selflessness", only an extremely self-centered and selfish person would've ever considered doing what Felicity did to Barry and Iris. Not helping the matter is that during that same crossover, Eobard Thawne made a TakeThatScrappy speech where he revealed Also, in the future, ''no one'' remembers Felicity in the heroic tales of Green Arrow, Black Canary, and the Flash, [[AlternateCharacterInterpretation inadvertently insinuating that she only married Oliver so she could be remembered as his wife]], which would only be supported by ''Series/CrisisOnEarthX'', her abrupt decision to tack on their wedding to Barry and Iris'. Even to this day, when fans are trying to give Felicity a chance again, one only has to bring up the double wedding for them to instantly hate her again. Ultimately, this moment ensured she was never getting out of the scrappy heap and she remained tolerated at best for the rest of her time on the show.Iris's.
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** A lot of people pretend that the show ended after Season 2. The farthest many will accept is the Season 3 episode "The Climb", or the Season 5 finale.
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** A lot of people pretend that the show ended after Season 2. The farthest many will accept is the Season 3 episode "The Climb", or the Season 5 finale. Some even like to believe the show ended after Season 1, [[FranchiseOriginalSin as Season 2 is when many of the show's frequently criticized flaws in its later seasons first showed up]].
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** The deaths of Sara in Season Three and Laurel in Season Four are also both heavily despised, Sara's so much so that it was undone in Season Four and she was made the main character of the SpinOff ''Series/LegendsOfTomorrow''. Laurel's death in particular is one of the reasons why Season Four is regarded an AudienceAlienatingEra, and many like to pretend it never happened or that the show ended after Season Four, since it also marked a shift in character dynamics with the main cast that many disliked.
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** The deaths of Sara in Season Three and Laurel in Season Four are also both heavily despised, Sara's so much so that it was undone in Season Four and she was made the main character of the SpinOff ''Series/LegendsOfTomorrow''. Laurel's death in particular is one of the reasons why Season Four is regarded an AudienceAlienatingEra, and many like to pretend it never happened or that the show ended after Season Four, Four because of it, since it also marked a shift in character dynamics with the main cast that many disliked.disliked (from a family-like dynamic to a rowdy-classroom/coworker one). While the writers refused to bring Laurel back despite the controversy, they eventually relented somewhat by allowing Laurel's Earth-2 counterpart Black Siren to make a HeelFaceTurn and become one of her successors as the Black Canary as something of a compromise.
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** The deaths of Sara in Season Three and Laurel in Season Four are also both heavily despised, Sara's so much so that it was undone in Season Four and she was made the main character of the SpinOff ''Series/LegendsOfTomorrow''. Laurel's death in particular is one of the reasons why Season Four is regarded an AudienceAlienatingEra, and many like to pretend it never happened or that the show ended after Season Four, since it also marked a shift in character dynamics with the main cast that many disliked.
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** Felicity was received a lot warmer during Season 7, due to her interesting dynamic with Earth-2 Laurel and being a lot more supportive and less critical of Oliver than before. The finale in particular had many people [[AlasPoorScrappy feel sorry for her]], and her presence has been missed by some fans during Season 8. However, the fans never really got to actually liking her again in the end, at most tolerating her presence because they knew there was no chance of the show going with another of the more popular Oliver ships anymore. The Season 8 / Series finale did have many people being very overjoyed about her return and they were glad for her and Oliver finally receiving a happy ending, despite all the issues before.
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** Felicity was received a lot warmer during Season 7, due to her interesting dynamic with Earth-2 Laurel and being a lot more supportive and less critical of Oliver than before. The finale in particular had many people [[AlasPoorScrappy feel sorry for her]], and her presence has been missed by some fans during Season 8. However, the fans never really got to actually liking her again in the end, at most tolerating her presence because they knew there was no chance of the show going with another of the more popular Oliver ships anymore. The Season 8 / Series finale did have many people being very overjoyed about her return and they were glad for her and Oliver finally receiving a happy ending, despite all the issues before.
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* UnacceptableTargets: Make no mistake, no matter how loathed [[TheScrappy Felicity Smoak]] may be, the fandom in general really hates it when people make personal attacks on Creator/EmilyBettRickards, given just how sweet she is in real life, having been involved in charities for scholarship programs and autoimmune disease research. If anything, most seem to view her as the biggest victim of the entire situation -- after all, it can't be easy having your once popular character become so hated through absolutely no fault of your own.
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%%** Konstantin Kovar, the flashback villain of Season 5, is played by none other than [[Creator/DolphLundgren Dolph]] ''[[Film/RockyIV freaking]]'' [[Creator/DolphLundgren Lundgren]], automatically making him this.
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Zero Context.
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** Konstantin Kovar, the flashback villain of Season 5, is played by none other than [[Creator/DolphLundgren Dolph]] ''[[Film/RockyIV freaking]]'' [[Creator/DolphLundgren Lundgren]], automatically making him this.
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** Konstantin Kovar, the flashback villain of Season 5, is portrayed by none other than [[Creator/DolphLundgren Dolph ''freaking'' Lundgren]], automatically making him this.
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** Konstantin Kovar, the flashback villain of Season 5, is portrayed played by none other than [[Creator/DolphLundgren Dolph ''freaking'' Dolph]] ''[[Film/RockyIV freaking]]'' [[Creator/DolphLundgren Lundgren]], automatically making him this.
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** Thanks to being portrayed by Creator/ManuBennett, Slade Wilson is this for some. Helps that he has a BaritoneOfStrength and [[TragicVillain tragic backstory]].
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** Thanks to being portrayed played by Creator/ManuBennett, Slade Wilson is this for some. Helps that he has a BaritoneOfStrength and [[TragicVillain tragic backstory]].
