History WMG / ASongOfIceAndFirePartII

...He's not Rhaegar's son. He is a direct descendant of [[spoiler: Aerion Brightflame]].[[note]]''The World of Ice and Fire'' states that Prince Aerion sired one trueborn son, Maegor.[[/note]] These lesser Targaryens have spent the last seventy years gathering their strength to make a bid for the Iron Throne, and see the chaos left by the War of the Five Kings as the best opportunity to stake their claim.

[[WMG: Dany's return to westeros will be A Big RealityEnsues.]]

* This sounds awesome, but given the nature of [[RealityEnsues this series]], such a scene could easily end with the character breaking their bones upon the dragon's scales. There's also the possibility that they misjudge the timing and end up splattered across the rocks anyway, though dragons are pretty huge.

Patchface is so creepy that he even puts Melisandre on edge. Her visions show him surrounded by skulls and with lips red with blood, and he himself spouts some eerily accurate garbled prophecies so it seems that he could have a role to play, but what it is is unclear:

* During the Long Night when the Others invaded Westeros, deep in the forgotten past, some ancestor of House Bolton somehow managed to reproduce with an Other. This is the source of their pale, cruel descendants, with their eerily pale, icy blue eyes. Roose is detached and dispassionate in nature (he is cold to the point of seemingly barely human) and has hidden any particularly evil tendencies from the world at large[[note]]as, presumably, his immediate forebears did: the Boltons haven't openly worn the skins of their enemies in many years[[/note]], just as the Others have been hidden away up North for thousands of years. But now, as the the Others are stirring again, their AlwaysChaoticEvil tendencies are awakening in Ramsay. '''And in the story about the Long Night that Old Nan tells to Bran in AGOT, she says the Others "hunted the maids through frozen forests". Now, does this sound like anyone we know?''' House Bolton's words ("Our Blades are Sharp" according to WordOfGod) could refer to the Others' {{AbsurdlySharp|Blade}} ice-blades, and their historical enmity with House Stark could originate in the latter's building the Wall to try to protect the land from the Others.

* That Robert carries recessive genes for blonde hair and green eyes is the obvious assumption, but the problem with it is that the Baratheons would have carried the recessive genes for many generations and many marriages with Lannisters, making the chances of every single L+B child (and it's implied, every child of a Baratheon parent, in particular every one of Robert's bastards) ever born, being the spitting image of their Baratheon parent extremely small. It's, paradoxically, more plausible that in Westeros there is [[ArtMajorBiology no such thing as recessive genes]].

* Trying to make sense of genetics in [=ASoIaF=] is [[ArtMajorBiology a fruitless endeavour]]. Not all Targaryens ever have had white hair.

* They are, to date, the only culture that GRRM has not given ''any'' type of deepness or questionable morals. They are HumanoidAbominations that's about it. I remember that GRRM said in an interview that the next books will tell us more about them...maybe the revelation would be that there is some seriously poweful warlock on the Lands of Always Winter that summons them to attack Westeros. It would explain the whole "not sure if they come with the cold or if the cold comes with them" from the stuff Sam read.

They are so great that humans can't possibly perceive them directly, but their eternal struggle with each other manifests as the uneven seasons of Westeros. Humans and normal life in general can only survive in their impasse, and victory of either one would spell immediate doom for everyone; the first Long Winter was a time when the Great Other almost won and the Doom of Valyria resulted from the Lord of Light gaining the upper hand. Humans tend to see one or the other as good and evil simply because they happened to be saved from one's wrath by the other, by coincidence. They are only vaguely aware of humans, themselves and don't really comprehend them as individuals, but seek to use them as pawns by sending power in their way that only a few with the affinity can actually exploit. And those few can mix a little bit of humanity in the essence of these entities to create the [[HumanoidAbomination Humanoid Abominations]] known as the Others and Melisandre's shadow children, respectively. Ofcourse no-one has the idea of how to make more Others, any more, since they were all too succesful, but Craster had the right idea.

Also, the idea of Dunk of Flea-bottom having descendants who's house sigil is a hound...[[DramticIrony There's something poetic about that.]]

* Ned's demise provides a good [[FamilyUnfriendlyAesop story about how being honorable gets you absolutely nowhere.]]

* I was just coming here to say this. I think Dany's reproductive system is fine. She had a hard birth, obviously, and for an extremely brief period she was carrying something she wasn't designed to carry[[note]]Point of interest: even if she hadn't already been in labor, the biggest risk (assuming roughly similar size and no claws/other sharp bits) would have been her immune system attacking it, which would make her very miserable but leave her basically fine once it was expelled[[/note]], but there's no indication that not!Rhaego actually damaged her beyond a normal birth. She has also not had another sex partner (who could get her pregnant, anyway) until [[spoiler:Daario]] in ADWD, so it's not like she'd know, and given that she's unsurprised to [[spoiler:get her period at the end of ADWD, it's obvious she's still menstruating regularly]]. I think Mirri Maz Duur was either lashing out with whatever she thought would hurt, or really did believe she was making a prophecy but she's wrong.

It's mentioned in ADWD that if a ruler doesn't pay the Iron Bank what he owes, the Bank have them killed and replaced by someone who'll take the hint. Cersei blew off the Bank while she was ruler, so they'll be looking to topple her if she wins her trial by battle and regains control of King's Landing (and, with [[spoiler:Zombie Gregor]] as her champion, how can she lose?).

*** Come to think of it, if he has a [=POV=] after the end of ''ADWD'', his first one will appropriately be "Ghost".

[[WMG: Every [=POV=] introduced in AFFC/ADWD will play a major role in TWOW & ADOS.]]
When you think about it, they are all well-placed to observe new storylines, particularly as GRRM has said that there will be no more new [=POV=] characters. An early example is Asha Greyjoy, who ended up as our [=POV=] in Stannis' army in ADWD. So, theories ahoy!

We know that Dragons can be fought and beaten if you know what to do - the Dornish managed to beat Aegon the Conqueror, and then they beat the Young Dragon as well. Similarly, we know that dragons can be killed - [[spoiler: Harghaz nearly managed to kill Drogon in ADWD, and Dany clearly feared for his safety]]. At the moment, Dany is [[spoiler: about to be captured by Khal Jhaqo.]] Perhaps she [[spoiler: will be pushed over the edge by the]] [[spoiler: nasty treatment she can look forward to at Jhaqo's hands, or he will use her to enslave the dragons.]] Also, since his HeelFaceTurn, Jaime is actually trying to become more like a chivalrous knight - [[spoiler: saving Brienne, rescuing Tyrion (and telling him the truth), beating himself up over having to threaten Edmure, showing his respect for Lord Blackwood over Lord Bracken.]] And what do knights do? Kill dragons.

[[WMG: The Ice Dragon mentioned in ADWD is real]]

** That's true. In this series, as in life, beauty is subjective. Some say Lyanna was incredibly beautiful. Some say she was just OK, but not even close to being as beautiful as others. But Arya goes through the same thing. Some call her ugly (Arya Horseface) while others say she is attractive. Her beauty is even referenced in ADWD by another character. Plus, Cersei has aged a decade and a half since she was in her prime. It will be much easier to surpass her in beauty now.

*** The dragon-rider wouldn't be the one who blew it. Moqorro explained it to Victarion in aDwD: the dragons obey the person who claims the horn (not sure exactly how you do that but it involves blood, apparently), and you can have a mook do the blowing.

They are also the only two female P.O.V. who are in any condition to be victors in the Game of Thrones. Cersei is being taken down in King's Landing due to her own mistakes; Brienne may or may not be dead; Arya's interests lie only in revenge; Cat is down for the count; Mellesendrei is only working for the gains of her own gods; and Arianne has not done anything significant except have her actions result in the maiming of Myrcella Baratheon. As well, Sansa is the only Stark currently participating in the Game of Thrones (and this includes Jon; the NightsWatch takes no part). That takes away Bran and Rickon, who, despite having the same colouring, are not as involved in the war.

They are also both naive in the ways of politics, though both are learning. Sansa is being taught by LittleFinger, and Dany in her plot line in Meereen. Dany also has her dragons, while Sansa is theoretically able to raise a strong army through name alone.

Instead, she will conquer Essos and reestablish the Valyrian Freehold. She can hardly abandon Meereen now, and the only way the war in Slaver's Bay can end is with one side crushing the other; that's clear now. Once that's done, the obvious next target is Volantis; remember that woman in Volantis, the Widow of the Waterfront, who gave Ser Jorah a message for Dany, on behalf of the slaves of Volantis: "Tell her we are waiting. Tell her to come soon." Once Dany takes Volantis, the obvious next step is to do what the Volantenes wanted Aegon the Conqueror to do, long ago: conquer the other free cities and reestablish the Freehold of Valyria. This will end up being ASoIaF's version of the Holy Roman Empire, as the Valyrian Freehold was its version of the Roman Empire.

Littlefinger's endgame is to end the game of thrones. In ASoIaF, he represents the renaissance, the rise of the merchant class and the toppling of the aristocracy. He is rich and powerful without being born into aristocracy. Instead of being born into priviledge, he uses his own hard work to create his own future. Littlefinger's motivation for what he is doing goes back to how he was screwed over because of the strict social hierarchy of Westeros.

* Trying to make sense of genetics in ASoIaF is [[ArtMajorBiology a fruitless endeavour]]. Not all Targaryens ever have had white hair.

* I mean, really? He's [[TooGoodForThisSinfulEarth much too sweet for a place like Westeros, let alone the Iron Throne.]] And unlike some -okay, ''most'' of the character deaths in ASOIAF, it won't be in dramatic or particularly violent fashion. It'll come out of nowhere and won't be a particularly sexy death. Kid catches a severe case of a thought-to-be-relatively-innocuous illness - boom, he's gone. Cersei will go into full-blown VillainousBreakdown mode, blame Margeary Tyrell for Tommen's death, and then have her tied to a nearby stake a la Mirri Maz Duur as Cersei immolates herself. Loras, realizing he'll be deprived of the last person he truly loves, jumps onto the pyre and perishes with them - leaving King's Landing in a state of chaotic riots and the Iron Throne vacant. Now it good and truly does belong to Stannis Baratheon, but given his distance away from King's Landing, it'll be a good week or two before he even gets the news and at least another month before he can muster his forces and actually get ''to'' KL. And perhaps he thinks it will be wise to [[spoiler: get rid of the Boltons]] before he leaves as well. Which would cause him to stay in the north, giving ample time for, say, Daenerys Targaryen to arrive in Westeros and her dragons to start wrecking shit. Then you've got the matter of [[spoiler: the other Aegon (supposedly)]] being out there, so now even the Targaryen dynasty is split between two claimants, which could lead to a host of things happening:

Many of the villains in ASOIAF have died with an element of irony ([[spoiler:Vargo Hoat's practice of hacking off limbs and leaving people to die gets turned back on him, Joffrey is poisoned at his own wedding after making fun of Robb Stark's demise, Tywin is killed by the son he's been abusing his entire life, Gregor Clegane dies a slow, screaming death after a life spent causing others unspeakable pain]]), so there's a chance that Roose, who prides himself on subtlety and wishes for "a peaceful land and a quiet people", will perish after being caught in a chaotic scene which he himself set off by mistake. It would have to be caused by a seemingly [[PragmaticVillainy unnoticeable]] mistake, though...or maybe a huge one. His son's not the subtlest man alive.

Westeros goes through a cycle of ages, similar to [[Literature/TheWheelOfTime Randland,]] during which magic gets stronger and weaker. The weaker times are catastrophic, and it's heading into another weak phase as of the time ASoIaF takes place. Bran's job will be to start the next cycle after The Other destroys everyone.

*** No, the second poster is wrong, even though the above poster is correct. Women ''can'' inherit, but only ''after'' men. By that custom, Stannis is Tommen's heir, and then Selyse is Stannis's. Myrcella will only become Tommen's heir is Stannis predeceases his (supposed) nephew. Except, as noted above, under Dornish law, where Myrcella was ''Joffrey's'' heir, preceding Tommen because she is older.

** Although it would be pretty funny if the BwB started adopting the same tactics that the cops use on The Wire -- flipping people at every level in order to slowly work their way up the chain of command...

** ''And poetry''. This is usually given to Sansa, but the truth is all Stark children are versed in poetry, they simply prefer different genres of poetry. Sansa, as we know, prefers romance poems. Jon prefers those of Targaryen kings. Bran prefers battles. We don't know what Robb prefers, because he doens't have a POV, but Arya prefers warrior women like Wenda the White Fawn

Sansa has a few fleeting POVs in "A Feast for Crows" and doesn't really do much, and despite being a main character, doesn't appear at all in "A Dance with Dragons," a book that included every major surviving POV from the entire series (minor POVs like Brienne and Aeron were cut.) Mysteriously, the Eyrie was barely even mentioned. It seems that George is saving Sansa's chapters for later. It's likely that after the major development that happens late in "'Feast" that Sansa's role in the plot is nearly fulfilled. Her whole story was about her being a pawn in the game. Now that she's a player, she won't have much left to do other than make a few plot-affecting decisions before her few loose ends are wrapped up. Her detachment from the Others problem or the Iron Throne squabble might mean that her story will end on a personal note, since Sansa's storyline was always more about what she goes through than the goings-on around Westeros.

[[WMG: Future POV Names]]

** "Lady Stoneheart" (to fill in where there used to be Catelyn Pov)

*** Come to think of it, if he has a POV after the end of ''ADWD'', his first one will appropriately be "Ghost".

* GRRM has stated there will be no more POV characters added, which removes the option of the last two. (In theory. We'll see if he lives up to this.)

Let us imagine that Jon Snow and/or his allies regain control of the Wall early on in ''The Winds of Winter''. A likely scenario is that Melisandre decides to help Jon, bringing Stannis' people in on his side. If Jon's human body is dead, Melisandre might end up in charge (or at least she will be the POV). They send Roose Bolton a fuck you raven. Bolton, furious, leads his men north to attack the Wall. In the eyes of just about everyone, this is Roose Bolton's MoralEventHorizon. The North rises in open rebellion. Roose Bolton is defeated by an army of Stark loyalists, wildlings, crows, what remains of Stannis' troops, and even Boltons - one subplot sees the castellan of the Dreadfort turn against his liege. Around this time, Sansa's true identity is revealed. One of the final scenes has her being declared Queen in the North.

[[WMG: Every POV introduced in AFFC/ADWD will play a major role in TWOW & ADOS.]]
When you think about it, they are all well-placed to observe new storylines, particularly as GRRM has said that there will be no more new POV characters. An early example is Asha Greyjoy, who ended up as our POV in Stannis' army in ADWD. So, theories ahoy!

This theory is basically part interesting use of what we already "know" (as much as ever really know anything recently in this story) and the fact that, for main characters in an "AnyOneCanDie" series, the Starks do very little actual dying after Ned ( very little ''staying'' dead). In a sense, among all the other deconstructions and parodies, AnyOneCanDie is being toyed with, as the series begins with a shattering of comfort on who may live and who may die, but then doesn't really follow through with any of the main POV characters. And why let a character have the peace of death when you can make them suffer some more?

* She mentions him beating and raping her in her POV in ''AFFC'', and characters generally don't lie to themselves in their POV chapters/people don't lie to themselves in their thoughts. Just because Cersei is a sociopath doesn't mean Robert isn't a wife beater and rapist.
** People lie to themselves in their thoughts all the time, especially when it comes to justifying their own bad behavior. Why should we assume that the characters are being totally honest with themselves in their own thoughts/[=PoV=] chapters? It's true that Cersei could be a sociopath ''and'' Robert could be an abuser and a rapist, but why should we just take Cersei's word on it?

*** I have trouble believing that about Jon. I don't know whether he'll [[spoiler:survive his injuries or be raised by Melisandre]], but that scene is ''way'' too reminiscent of Theon at the sack of Winterfell, Asha in the fight in the woods, Brienne in the fight with the 'Hound', Arya at the Twins. There's probably more. Quentyn Martell is the nearest thing to an exception, but even he [[spoiler:didn't actually die ''in that scene'']]. People have [[spoiler:died in their POV, but there's a ton where they're implied to be dead and turn up later, and the way it faded out, dwelling on the last thing he saw/felt as he lost consciousness, is far more in line with the not-dead scenes]]. ''And'' he was legitimised by Robb, offered it again by Stannis, and there's kings all over the place who could potentially do it a third time.

* '''The Reach:''' Euron will take Highgarden, and probably kill as many Tyrells as possible. If he manages to purge the house, the Reach will probably unite under the Hightowers (especially as we have Sam in Oldtown to serve as our POV).

* There could be a scene in TWOW or ADOS that takes place in a normally very warm climate, perhaps Dorne from Areo's POV, when it suddenly turns cold without an explanation, and a dead person or a person with greyscale suddenly develops blue eyes and black hands...

*** I'm pretty sure he knows what homosexuality is, considering how he specifically mentions it when taunting Loras in SoS:
--> '''Jaime:'''Now sheathe your bloody sword, or I’ll take it from you and shove it up some place even Renly never found.

* As a CrowningMomentOfAwesome mixed with TearJerker, imagine a dragon being killed with cannon fire. Cue Daenerys' lament and the words: "Fire nowadays can kill a dragon. They have taught it".

* Ambition: Bran always dreamed being a hero and a future KnightInShiningArmor. We discover quickly that this will never happen when he's pushed out of a tower window and paralyzed from the waist down for life. Though crushed, his dreams haven't quite left the kid's mind. When presented with another means of power, agency and, most importantly, freedom (warging into Summer), Bran locks onto it immediately, unlike his siblings Jon and Arya who are too busy to pay attention to their own wolf dreams. Then with the introduction of the three-eyed crow and The Reed siblings, Bran is given a whole new purpose in life. Once Winterfell is destroyed and his family scattered, Bran goes all in for whatever the three-eyed crow has in store for him beyond The Wall. He's so determined that not even harsh [[AddedAlliterativeAppeal wintery weather, wildlings, wolves and wights won't]] stop him from reaching his destination. When he finally does, Bran quickly goes under the wing of Brynden to fully understand his powers and destiny. In doing so, he also can't help but disregard his companions' pain, even if he does feel bad for them. His ambition for understanding is slowly becoming greater than his inherent empathy, much like Arya's training with the Faceless Men or Sansa with Littlefinger.

** There may well be Blackfyres from the female line out there -- Targaryens (and, by extension, Blackfyres) do allow females to inherit should all male claimants wind up dead, as may well have happened with the Blackfyres. All it would take would be some sisters and/or aunts to band together around the female inheritor and insist on keeping the line pure after using a son from a random father (or from a bastard son or grandson of a male Blackfyre or even Targaryen: both options are possible) for one generation to maintain the line in secret from then on. After all, the line is considered dead and of no more threat -- a useful label to have if you want to spring a surprise comeback. (There is the Black Pearl of Braavos, for instance, to consider -- not to mention Egg's own brother's exile)... Our current Aegon himself could be such a surprising, stealthy comeback, as he may have been born at about about the right time to be passed off as a Targaryen true by sheer, dumb luck: why take with full force what you might trick yourselves back into having? He may not be alone, either, even though he may think he is and may not even know.

Or, failing that, the person who does take the Iron Throne - consensus seems to be that Jon or Dany are the most likely at the end - will marry a Tyrell. Why? Well, Stark = York and Lannister = Lancaster, and this troper thinks that Tyrell = Tudor. The Tyrells' rose sigil looks very much like the Tudor rose in design, and one of the actual Tudor colors was green (the other being white; red and white is a common misconception because of the rose; the red and white symbolized the joining of White Rose York and Red Rose Lancaster). The Tyrells' colors are green and gold. The head of the Tyrell family is also Lord of the Marches - the Tudors were Welsh, Welsh Marches, anyone? Lastly, Margaery Tyrell's story has quite a few parallels to Anne Boleyn's, and Anne Boleyn's rise and fall is one of the better-known events in the Tudor era. Which also makes the fact that Natalie Dormer plays Margaery, and was also Anne Boleyn on TheTudors, a nice CastingGag.

As interesting as they are, a Faceless Man as a viewpoint character, let alone as a protagonist character, wouldn't work. They're meant to have no identity, no desires of their own, no ties to the outside world -- none of the things that make a hero, basically. [[spoiler:Arya's hidden sword and her wild direwolf ]]both symbolise aspects of her character that she wouldn't allow to be subsumed by the House of Black and White. Either something in Braavos will remind her of home, or she will rail against a final stage of induction to the Faceless Men and flee -- or be expelled -- from them. Like [[Film/BatmanBegins Bruce Wayne]] and [[TheEmpireStrikesBack Luke Skywalker]], she will join the ranks of the Dropout Hero. Some kind of rediscovery of [[spoiler:Nymeria being the catalyst would be excellent, as she symbolises all the aspects of Arya that go against the FM's ethos, although it's hard to see how that would happen except as a particularly vivid wolf-dream.]]

* Mace Tyrell has been doing his utmost to fill the Small Council with loyal Reach men in order to expand his own influence (now unchecked due to Kevan's death.

Basically he would be immediately spirited to kings landing after the minimal training needed to become a Maester and all the rules will be bent to get him on the Small Council to act as his father's puppet in Mace's machinations to get complete Tyrell control over the Kingdom....only for his very clear and dire warnings about the rising threat of the Others and the need to send more men to the wall to throw a spanner in all of that. Randall will attempt to browbeat (or simply beat) his son into compliance and will finally learn his son has matured into somewhat of a badass, Sam's political savy and the fact everyone underestimates him (coupled with the protection his birth and position will give him) will give him an ok starting point in the political gambit pileup in Kings Landing, and when he discovers a certain giant undead killing machine, he will know the only true way to kill it should a certain dog themed warrior turn up to fight it (even if said way of killing it is the worst fear of said dog themed warrior).

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that the Bank use Faceless Men for their assassinations, since both the Bank and the Men are based out of Braavos. And we know Arya would leap at the chance to put a dagger between Cersei's shoulderblades, especially since she hasn't phased out her own identity like Faceless Men are supposed to. Of course, this doesn't guarantee she'll succeed, but it seems like an elegant way to bring her back to Westeros for the finale...

...masquerading as Ser Meryn Trant, who he killed after Arya fled. ''[[{{Badass}} With his wooden sword.]]''

Page II of Wild Mass Guessing for the ASongOfIceAndFire novels. See also [[WMG/ASongOfIceAndFirePartI Page I]].

[[WMG: In the world of ''ASongOfIceAndFire'', two monozygotic twins can have different genders.]]

* Influence: This is the biggest, most critical point of all. Who is playing Bran, who is guiding him and supporting him? The three-eyed crow aka Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers. We know he is a Targaryen bastard, with a reputation for sorcery and a past as a ruthlessly effective Master of Whisperers. He is unique for having both Valyrian and First Men blood running through his veins; one of which has given him the same warging/greenseer abilities as Bran. He was apparently Lord Commander of the Night's Watch for awhile before. Now he's The Last Greenseer, and implied to be observing events all across the world ("A thousand eyes and one"). And he seems to have marked Bran as his replacement. Despite how rational he makes it all sound, the stuff he's doing to Bran is pretty dark. This includes consuming a strange reddish paste (which is probably the sap that flows from the weirwoods; the sap suspected of being actual blood) and leaving the world behind and embracing darkness. He says specifically: ''"[[DarkIsNotEvil Do not fear the darkness, Bran.]] TheThe strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. [[TheDarkSide Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother's milk.]] [[ScrewTheRulesIHaveSupernaturalPowers Darkness will make you strong.]]"'' Sounds kind of... dark. In the same book, Melisandre has a vision of Bloodraven and Bran while also seeing darkness and death (both of which she believes to be calling cards of the Great Other). She even wonders if they are "the enemy" she's been waiting for. Now unless the Night's King shows up in ''The Winds of Winter,'' right now the three-eyed crow seems as morally ambiguous a character as Petyr Baelish, Varys or Tywin Lannister. And it's very likely that he's simply manipulating this child into becoming a living weapon or maybe even TheDragon for whatever war is coming. Now why? My guess is that Bloodraven is somehow in league with the Others. Maybe the Children of the Forest don't even know it. But you gotta admit it's weird that the Others start coming back right around the time dragons reappear in the world. Perhaps Bloodraven, and thus the Others, foresaw the dragons being born and Dany's rise. They knew they had to act and amass their army before the dragons grew too large and powerful. This is also where Bran, the new greenseer, comes into the picture. Bloodraven is around 125 years old at this point and likely not as strong as he used to be. So why not mold the perfect pawn for the Others in case he winds up giving out. It would mainly be to help him enthrall the dragons, though; "you will never walk again, but you will fly." After all, Daenerys has three dragons, and Bloodraven can't control two at a time. Now for evidence to support the Evil Bloodraven and Bran theory:

* Because she was already our AlexanderTheGreat expy anyway. And it will be named Targarya.