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Suggesting Gortwog is more villainous than Eadwyre (considering his reaction if you hand the Totem to him) or Akorithi (considering what Lhotun's quest reveals) seems a bit wrong-footed, especially given Gortwog's valid points on how orcs are treated and his restraint if handed the Totem.


** Several of the series' {{Big Bad}}s have been Elves of one type or another. Dagoth Ur from ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind Morrowind]]'', [[spoiler:Almalexia]] in the ''Tribunal'' expansion, Mankar Camoran in ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion Oblivion]]'', and Umaril the Unfeathered in the ''Knights of the Nine'' expansion. Jagar Tharn, the BigBad EvilSorcerer in ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsArena Arena]]'' is later revealed to [[HalfHumanHybrid have Dunmer ancestry]]. While ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIDaggerfall Daggerfall]]'' is mostly GrayAndGreyMorality, the two most "villainous" characters who can receive the totem in the game's MultipleEndings are Mannimarco ("the King of Worms") who is an Altmer-turned-Lich and Gortwog, the leader of the [[OurOrcsAreDifferent Orcs]], who in the ''ES'' universe are a sub-race of elves.

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** Several of the series' {{Big Bad}}s have been Elves of one type or another. Dagoth Ur from ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIIMorrowind Morrowind]]'', [[spoiler:Almalexia]] in the ''Tribunal'' expansion, Mankar Camoran in ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIVOblivion Oblivion]]'', and Umaril the Unfeathered in the ''Knights of the Nine'' expansion. Jagar Tharn, the BigBad EvilSorcerer in ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsArena Arena]]'' is later revealed to [[HalfHumanHybrid have Dunmer ancestry]]. While ''[[VideoGame/TheElderScrollsIIDaggerfall Daggerfall]]'' is mostly GrayAndGreyMorality, one of the two most "villainous" characters who can receive the totem in the game's MultipleEndings are is Mannimarco ("the King of Worms") who is an Altmer-turned-Lich and Gortwog, the leader of the [[OurOrcsAreDifferent Orcs]], who in the ''ES'' universe are a sub-race of elves.Altmer-turned-Lich.
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* ''[[https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13701065/1/Metagaming Metagaming?]]'' brings this up repeatedly as a minor theme. The Night Elves are one of the oldest races on Azeroth and once ruled most of the known world on top of being biologically immortal. However, their longevity makes them extremely slow to change or progress as a society. Harry notes their capital city has the population of a small town at best and Adrastia quickly deduced that they're one major disaster away from extinction. When creating new bodies for himself and Luna, Harry bases them off trolls, citing that they're the most biologically advanced race, being even older then night elves while having mortal lifespans. By contrast, the night elves are at most twenty generations old and, according to Harry, haven't even evolved a proper racial survival instinct yet.

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** In fact, ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' seems to have a ''hard-on'' for this trope. The [[PlayerCharacter Elven Inquisitor]] can [[ButThouMust only be Dalish]], and pretty much ''every'' named Elven Companion and [=NPC=] gets a dig at the [[CantArgueWithElves Dalish's supposed haughty superiority]] at least once, and [[FantasticRacism several non-elven characters]] too. The Inquisitor's only two elven companions [[BoomerangBigot Solas]] and [[InternalizedCategorism Sera]] both ''despise'' the Dalish, and never fail to let the Inquisitor know it. (In fact, if they're romanced by a Dalish Inquisitor, they often pepper their praise with [[BackhandedCompliment backhanded comments]] against her people, and make it clear they still think her people are trash but she's okay because she's [[YouAreACreditToYourRace not like other Dalish]]).
** As stated above, the second half of ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' also has several major revelations about Elvhen history and lore that paint the elves in a ''very'' negative light, and deserving of their own downfall and oppression under humans: [[spoiler:Their gods being fake and merely abusive nobles, vallaslin (ceremonial face-tattoos) really being slave-markings, the fall of the Elvhen Empire being through their own Civil War, the supposed elven attack on Red Crossing that Orlesian humans used for centuries to justify re-subjugating the elves turning out to be ''very true'', and the Exalted March of the Dales being revealed to be because the elves refused dual-worship the Maker and Creators like Inquisitor Ameridan]]. It's like the developers wanted to make up for lost time and cram as much ''"ScrewYouElves"'' into one game as possible, which disappointed a lot of fans (particularly elven fans) who appreciated the franchise being an otherwise refreshing aversion to this trope, at least for their EnslavedElves.

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** In fact, ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' seems to have a ''hard-on'' for this trope. The [[PlayerCharacter Elven Inquisitor]] can [[ButThouMust only be Dalish]], and pretty much ''every'' named Elven Companion and [=NPC=] gets a dig at the [[CantArgueWithElves Dalish's supposed haughty superiority]] at least once, and [[FantasticRacism several non-elven characters]] too. The Inquisitor's only two elven companions [[BoomerangBigot Solas]] and [[InternalizedCategorism Sera]] both ''despise'' the Dalish, and never fail to let the Inquisitor know it. (In In fact, if they're romanced by a Dalish Inquisitor, they often pepper their praise with [[BackhandedCompliment backhanded comments]] against her people, and make it clear they still think her people are trash but she's okay because she's [[YouAreACreditToYourRace not like other Dalish]]).
** As stated above, the second half of ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' also has several major revelations about Elvhen history and lore that paint the elves in a ''very'' negative light, and deserving of their own downfall and oppression under humans: [[spoiler:Their gods being fake and merely abusive nobles, vallaslin (ceremonial face-tattoos) really being slave-markings, the fall of the Elvhen Empire being through their own Civil War, the supposed elven attack on Red Crossing that Orlesian humans used for centuries to justify re-subjugating the elves turning out to be ''very true'', and the Exalted March of the Dales being revealed to be because the elves refused dual-worship the Maker and Creators like Inquisitor Ameridan]]. It's like the developers wanted to make up for lost time and cram as much ''"ScrewYouElves"'' into one game as possible, which disappointed a lot of fans (particularly elven fans) who appreciated the franchise being an otherwise refreshing aversion to this trope, at least for their EnslavedElves.
Dalish]].
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*** Since she's [[TheOlderImmortal the oldest elf in the series]][[note]]She was old before the Dragon Riders existed, so at least 2500 years old[[/note]], this is partially a case of WhenIWasYourAge.


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** In #40, Ax shows his species' ugly [[BullyingTheDisabled ableism]] when they meet disabled Andalites. The human Animorphs call him out on it, though he points out that [[{{Hypocrite}} humans are no better most of the time]].
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* In ''Series/RedDwarf'', Holoships are made out of the most capable members of the Space Corps. Creating a population of immortal, highly intelligent, nigh-indestructible holograms out of what can be stated to be amongst the best of humanity also creates a population that is incredibly arrogant. So, when a member beams over and starts making snide remarks about the crew during his analysis, Lister mocks him back, ultimately culminating with threats backed by a holowhip, a device that can [[OhCrap actually cause pain to holograms.]] The observer decides that discretion is probably the better part of valour in this case.

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* ''Series/RedDwarf'': In ''Series/RedDwarf'', "[[Recap/RedDwarfSeasonVHoloship Holoship]]", we learn the titular Holoships are made out of the most capable members of the Space Corps. Creating a population of immortal, highly intelligent, nigh-indestructible holograms [[ProjectedMan holograms]] out of what can be stated to be amongst the best of humanity also creates a population that [[InsufferableGenius is incredibly arrogant. arrogant]]. So, when a member beams over and starts making snide and condescending remarks about the crew during his analysis, Lister mocks him back, ultimately culminating with threats backed by a holowhip, a device that can [[OhCrap actually cause pain to holograms.]] The observer decides that discretion is probably the better part of valour in this case.case and flees back to the Holoship.

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--->'''Merrill:''' Your "Maker" is a story you humans use to explain the world. We have our own stories. I don't need to borrow yours.

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--->'''Merrill:''' Your "Maker" is a story you humans use to explain the world. We have our own stories. I don't ''don't'' need to borrow yours.


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** In fact, ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' seems to have a ''hard-on'' for this trope. The [[PlayerCharacter Elven Inquisitor]] can [[ButThouMust only be Dalish]], and pretty much ''every'' named Elven Companion and [=NPC=] gets a dig at the [[CantArgueWithElves Dalish's supposed haughty superiority]] at least once, and [[FantasticRacism several non-elven characters]] too. The Inquisitor's only two elven companions [[BoomerangBigot Solas]] and [[InternalizedCategorism Sera]] both ''despise'' the Dalish, and never fail to let the Inquisitor know it. (In fact, if they're romanced by a Dalish Inquisitor, they often pepper their praise with [[BackhandedCompliment backhanded comments]] against her people, and make it clear they still think her people are trash but she's okay because she's [[YouAreACreditToYourRace not like other Dalish]]).
** As stated above, the second half of ''VideoGame/DragonAgeInquisition'' also has several major revelations about Elvhen history and lore that paint the elves in a ''very'' negative light, and deserving of their own downfall and oppression under humans: [[spoiler:Their gods being fake and merely abusive nobles, vallaslin (ceremonial face-tattoos) really being slave-markings, the fall of the Elvhen Empire being through their own Civil War, the supposed elven attack on Red Crossing that Orlesian humans used for centuries to justify re-subjugating the elves turning out to be ''very true'', and the Exalted March of the Dales being revealed to be because the elves refused dual-worship the Maker and Creators like Inquisitor Ameridan]]. It's like the developers wanted to make up for lost time and cram as much ''"ScrewYouElves"'' into one game as possible, which disappointed a lot of fans (particularly elven fans) who appreciated the franchise being an otherwise refreshing aversion to this trope, at least for their EnslavedElves.

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* In ''[[Webcomic/TheInexplicableAdventuresOfBob The Inexplicable Adventures of Bob,]]'' [[HigherTechSpecies Nemesites]] tend to act condescending to humans, even [[ReasonableAuthorityFigure Voluptua]] who's probably the nicest of them. Jean has no patience with this and is always quick with a sarcastic retort.

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* In ''[[Webcomic/TheInexplicableAdventuresOfBob The Inexplicable Adventures of Bob,]]'' ''Webcomic/TheInexplicableAdventuresOfBob'', [[HigherTechSpecies Nemesites]] tend to act condescending to humans, even [[ReasonableAuthorityFigure Voluptua]] who's probably the nicest of them. Jean has no patience with this and is always quick with a sarcastic retort.


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* In ''Webcomic/ElGoonishShive'', Tara has had it with Voltaire once it becomes evident he's been manipulating her so she drops the respectful demeanour she had toward him and threatens him into leaving.

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* The Vulcans in the rebooted ''Franchise/StarTrek'' flicks are aloof, dedicated to logic, and quite unabashedly racist.
** In ''Film/StarTrek2009'', Vulcans not-so-subtly ''insulting Spock's human mother'' at his hearing to apply to the Vulcan academy. Spock refuses to take this crap. One can imagine that when he tells the elders to "Live Long and Prosper," he wasn't giving them the "traditional" Vulcan salute. Made explicit (as a "vulgar human gesture") in the novelization.
** Spock's father, Sarek, looked as though he was [[IHaveNoSon about to lose his lunch]] when he saw his "human"-like son for the first time. (''Film/StarTrekVTheFinalFrontier'')
** Valeris, Spock's old protegee, is later revealed to be masterminding the [[spoiler:Khitomer conspiracy to spark a war between the Klingons and the Federation]]. This was twenty years before ''Enterprise'', so the reveal of a Vulcan traitor was nicely shocking. But then, Valeris ''was'' named for Eris, the [[MeaningfulName Greek goddess of strife]].
** In ''Film/StarTrekFirstContact'', Lily Sloane, a 21st century human, [[WhatTheHellHero calls out Captain Picard]], who'd been going on about how much superior 24th century Earth was to 21st century Earth up to this point, [[RevengeBeforeReason over his behavior in battling the Borg]], [[NotHimself admittedly Picard wasn't acting like himself at the time]].



*** For Space Elves, the Asgard are pretty cool with less advanced races. Thor, at least, is not only ''friendly'' with humans (particularly Jack) but also ''respects'' them. Freyr and some of the others play the trope straighter -- [[spoiler:but when the entire race basically wills all its stuff to humanity, you get a sense of how they really felt]].

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*** For Space Elves, the Asgard are pretty cool with less advanced races. Thor, at least, is not only ''friendly'' with humans (particularly Jack) but also ''respects'' them. Freyr and some of the others play the trope straighter -- [[spoiler:but when the entire race basically wills all its stuff to humanity, you get a sense of how they really felt]].



** The Tollan on the other hand got their comeuppance - after demonstrating the shallowness of ''their'' principles.

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** The Tollan on the other hand got their comeuppance - after demonstrating the shallowness of ''their'' principles.
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Rewicking post trope renaming.


* ''TabletopGame/{{Talislanta}}'' makes a huge deal out of not having any elves, which is probably the first thing most people learn about it. Except for the Ariane, Danuvians, Mandalans, Marukans, Mirin, Muses, Phantasians, and Thaecians, who just happen to be slender and graceful, with pointed ears, [[OurElvesAreBetter being descendants of mythical empires from the distant past and living in wondrous cities, where they retain their educated and spiritual societies]], but are not elves at all. [[SuspiciouslySpecificDenial Really, they are not.]]

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* ''TabletopGame/{{Talislanta}}'' makes a huge deal out of not having any elves, which is probably the first thing most people learn about it. Except for the Ariane, Danuvians, Mandalans, Marukans, Mirin, Muses, Phantasians, and Thaecians, who just happen to be slender and graceful, with pointed ears, [[OurElvesAreBetter [[OurElvesAreDifferent being descendants of mythical empires from the distant past and living in wondrous cities, where they retain their educated and spiritual societies]], but are not elves at all. [[SuspiciouslySpecificDenial Really, they are not.]]



** A "Goblins Vs. Elves" addition has choice quotes like "You don't live in forests, you ''burn'' them!", and most recently, ''Lorwyn'' block. Though initially, the elves are played up as pointy-eared Nazis (that is, they feel that beauty is everything, and nobody uglier than they has any right to live. Oh, and ''everyone else'' is uglier than them.) who never get their comeuppance, when the followup, ''Shadowmoor'' came out, they are taken from green-black to green-white, from ruling the idyllic, sunlit Lorwyn waited on hand and cloven foot ([[OurElvesAreBetter they have hooves]]), to fending for their very survival as the only non-malevolent race in the darkness of Shadowmoor, fighting off everything that thinks they look tasty, and cutting their own hair.

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** A "Goblins Vs. Elves" addition has choice quotes like "You don't live in forests, you ''burn'' them!", and most recently, ''Lorwyn'' block. Though initially, the elves are played up as pointy-eared Nazis (that is, they feel that beauty is everything, and nobody uglier than they has any right to live. Oh, and ''everyone else'' is uglier than them.) who never get their comeuppance, when the followup, ''Shadowmoor'' came out, they are taken from green-black to green-white, from ruling the idyllic, sunlit Lorwyn waited on hand and cloven foot ([[OurElvesAreBetter ([[OurElvesAreDifferent they have hooves]]), to fending for their very survival as the only non-malevolent race in the darkness of Shadowmoor, fighting off everything that thinks they look tasty, and cutting their own hair.



* ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' provides a ''ton'' of [[FantasticRacism antipathy]] between the [[OurElvesAreBetter the races of Mer (Elves)]] and the races of Men throughout the series and in the backstory. In fact, much of Tamriellic history can be summed up as "Elves and Men fighting," with "Men" winning more often than not, leading to this trope. To note:

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* ''Franchise/TheElderScrolls'' provides a ''ton'' of [[FantasticRacism antipathy]] between the [[OurElvesAreBetter [[OurElvesAreDifferent the races of Mer (Elves)]] and the races of Men throughout the series and in the backstory. In fact, much of Tamriellic history can be summed up as "Elves and Men fighting," with "Men" winning more often than not, leading to this trope. To note:



* In ''VideoGame/{{Suikoden}}'', the elves have the worst relations with other races precisely because people react the way real-life people would to their constant condescension. This comes back to bite them in the first game, where their lack of allies results in them finding out the hard way that they are definitely not [[OurElvesAreBetter better]], especially not when a [[HiddenElfVillage small elven settlement]] is being attacked by an entire [[TheEmpire empire]], and [[TooDumbToLive doesn't accept outside help]].

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* In ''VideoGame/{{Suikoden}}'', the elves have the worst relations with other races precisely because people react the way real-life people would to their constant condescension. This comes back to bite them in the first game, where their lack of allies results in them finding out the hard way that they are definitely not [[OurElvesAreBetter [[OurElvesAreDifferent better]], especially not when a [[HiddenElfVillage small elven settlement]] is being attacked by an entire [[TheEmpire empire]], and [[TooDumbToLive doesn't accept outside help]].



* In ''Webcomic/DumnestorsHeroes'', one of the main characters is an elf who's been turned into a human. So far, he's been pretty useless to have around, and the other characters make fun of OurElvesAreBetter to his face.

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* In ''Webcomic/DumnestorsHeroes'', one of the main characters is an elf who's been turned into a human. So far, he's been pretty useless to have around, and the other characters make fun of OurElvesAreBetter OurElvesAreDifferent to his face.



* The ''WebOriginal/ElfslayerChronicles'': What happens when a DM beats players over the head with [[OurElvesAreBetter beautiful]], [[CantArgueWithElves perfect]] elves ([[YaoiGuys who have lots of gay sex]]) and [[HumansAreBastards evil, xenophobic, warlike humans]]? One player [[OffTheRails derails the whole thing]] by murdering a missing human prince, framing his elven lover, and getting away with it by being that damn good. In the archived discussion, not only does "Elfslayer" compare the DM's elves to the [[Film/{{Avatar}} Na'avi]] and Creator/ChristopherPaolini's elves, but another poster references this exact trope page. When the DM (and the only player who actually liked the setting) complained, "Elfslayer" pointed out that an "evil, xenophobic, warlike human" like himself would never tolerate his prince shacking up with an elf; on top of that, his mission was to serve the kingdom to the best of his ability, and the relationship becoming public knowledge would damage the kingdom's reputation, so in that case MurderIsTheBestSolution.

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* The ''WebOriginal/ElfslayerChronicles'': What happens when a DM beats players over the head with [[OurElvesAreBetter [[OurElvesAreDifferent beautiful]], [[CantArgueWithElves perfect]] elves ([[YaoiGuys who have lots of gay sex]]) and [[HumansAreBastards evil, xenophobic, warlike humans]]? One player [[OffTheRails derails the whole thing]] by murdering a missing human prince, framing his elven lover, and getting away with it by being that damn good. In the archived discussion, not only does "Elfslayer" compare the DM's elves to the [[Film/{{Avatar}} Na'avi]] and Creator/ChristopherPaolini's elves, but another poster references this exact trope page. When the DM (and the only player who actually liked the setting) complained, "Elfslayer" pointed out that an "evil, xenophobic, warlike human" like himself would never tolerate his prince shacking up with an elf; on top of that, his mission was to serve the kingdom to the best of his ability, and the relationship becoming public knowledge would damage the kingdom's reputation, so in that case MurderIsTheBestSolution.
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-->'''[=MacDonald=]''': If we appear to be lacking in gratitude, Caesar, what have we to be grateful for? If you mean to set us free, then free us completely.\\

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-->'''[=MacDonald=]''': --->'''[=MacDonald=]''': If we appear to be lacking in gratitude, Caesar, what have we to be grateful for? If you mean to set us free, then free us completely.\\
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* Although ''Film/Plan9FromOuterSpace'' probably did intend its viewers to think that the alien characters were [[BenevolentAlienInvasion ultimately right]], they come across as [[JerkassHasAPoint extremely rude]] and [[VillainBall unnecessarily combative]]. It's oddly satisfying to see Jeff finally lose his patience with the constant belittling remarks from Eros ("Because all you of Earth are idiots") and finally smack him in his smug mouth.
-->'''Eros''': You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! ''Stu''pid!\\

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* Although ''Film/Plan9FromOuterSpace'' probably did intend its viewers to think that the alien characters were [[BenevolentAlienInvasion ultimately right]], they come across as [[JerkassHasAPoint extremely rude]] and [[VillainBall unnecessarily combative]]. It's oddly satisfying to see Jeff [[TheHero Jeff]] finally lose his patience with the constant belittling remarks from Eros ("Because all you of Earth are idiots") and finally smack him in his smug mouth.
-->'''Eros''': You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! ''Stu''pid!\\''[[BigStupidDoodooHead Stu]]''pid!\\
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* Although ''Film/Plan9FromOuterSpace'' probably did intend its viewers to think that the alien characters were [[BenevolentAlienInvasion ultimately right]], they come across as [[JerkassHasAPoint extremely rude]] and [[VillainBall unnecessarily combative]]. It's oddly satisfying to see Jeff finally lose his patience with the constant belittling remarks from Eros ("Because all you of Earth are idiots") and finally smack him in his smug mouth.
-->'''Eros''': You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! ''Stu''pid!\\
'''Jeff''': That's all I'm takin' from you!
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* Zigzagged in the ''Franchise/PlanetOfTheApes'' movies, particularly the [[Film/PlanetOfTheApes1968 first]] [[Film/BeneathThePlanetOfTheApes two]], which show a world fully dominated by apes, with mute, animalistic humans living in their shadow (and a CargoCult of bomb-worshipping mutated humans with PsychicPowers living underground like {{morlocks}}). Taylor and Brent, both regular humans [[TrappedInAnotherWorld from modern times]], find themselves frequently exasperated by the apes' and mutants' convictions of being a SuperiorSpecies. A good example of this can be found when Taylor is tying up the [[NonActionBigBad disarmed Doctor Zaius]], to the protests of Doctors Zira and Cornelius (chimpanzees he has befriended):
-->'''Dr. Zira''': Taylor, don't treat him that way!\\
'''Taylor''': Why not?\\
'''Dr. Zira''': It's humiliating!\\
'''Taylor''': The way you humiliated me? ''All'' of you? ''[[WhatTheHellHero You]]'' led me around on a ''leash''!\\
'''Dr. Cornelius''': That was different. We thought you were inferior.\\
'''Taylor''': Now you know better.
** ''Film/BattleForThePlanetOfTheApes'', the final movie in the original series, ends with Zira and Cornelius' son Caesar, the hero of the movie, [[WhatTheHellHero being called out]] by the human characters for his condescending and paternalistic treatment of them, showing that even the good guys can fall into that kind of thinking.
-->'''[=MacDonald=]''': If we appear to be lacking in gratitude, Caesar, what have we to be grateful for? If you mean to set us free, then free us completely.\\
'''Caesar''': What do you mean?\\
'''[=MacDonald=]''': We are not your ''children'', Caesar!
*** To his credit, Caesar accepts the wisdom of [=MacDonald=]'s words, and announces his intent for further social reforms.
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* Happens twice in ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'', from the humans to the Asgardians. Firstly when Thor sees fit to abscond with Loki so he can face Asgardian justice instead: Iron Man and Captain America are having ''none'' of that and one brief duel later he's agreed to let them take Loki to S.H.I.E.L.D. instead. Secondly when Loki tries to pull his AGodAmI antics on ''The Hulk''. One [[CurbStompBattle completely one-sided supreme Hulk-flavored ass-beating later]] and he's left on the floor, physically and mentally in shock.

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* Happens twice in ''Film/{{The Avengers|2012}}'', from the humans to the Asgardians. Firstly when Thor sees fit to abscond with Loki so he can face Asgardian justice instead: justice: Iron Man and Captain America are having ''none'' of that and one brief duel later he's agreed to let them take Loki to S.H.I.E.L.D. instead. Secondly when Loki tries to pull his AGodAmI antics on ''The Hulk''. One [[CurbStompBattle completely one-sided supreme Hulk-flavored ass-beating later]] and he's left on the floor, physically and mentally in shock.
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** The centaurs enslave the first humans they meet and beat an old member of the herd to death. The conflict quickly turns violent, though off camera, as the centaurs (it's implied) attempted to enslave the whole shipload of humans. Heinlein usually has his planets inhabited, often intelligent life. And the odds are good that they'll be smarter than humans.

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** The centaurs enslave the first humans they meet and beat an old member of the herd to death. The conflict quickly turns violent, though off camera, as the centaurs (it's implied) attempted to enslave the whole shipload of humans. Heinlein usually has his planets inhabited, often by intelligent life. And the odds are good that they'll be smarter than humans.



** Galbatorix justifies his tyranny by claiming that he is ''protecting'' humanity from the elves' influence and is the only person strong enough to do so. Considering that elvish Riders ruled Alagaësia before Galbatorix took power, [[VillainHasAPoint he has a point]]

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** Galbatorix justifies his tyranny by claiming that he is ''protecting'' humanity from the elves' influence and is the only person strong enough to do so. Considering that elvish Riders ruled Alagaësia before Galbatorix took power, [[VillainHasAPoint he has a point]]point]].



** In ''Skin Games'', Harry flippantly points out to yet another supernatural psychopath that claims to not be afraid of Chicago PD's 13,000 manpower the hypocrisy of that statement when he admitted to hiding under a veil while going around the city. Really, Mr Butcher's whole series can be seen as this to the supernatural world in general, whenever he points out the pains they go through to hide from humanity as a whole since we've come a long way from having crossbows and longswords.

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** In ''Skin Games'', Harry flippantly points out to yet another supernatural psychopath that claims to not be afraid of Chicago PD's 13,000 manpower manpower, the hypocrisy of that statement when he admitted to hiding under a veil while going around the city. Really, Mr Butcher's whole series can be seen as this to the supernatural world in general, whenever he points out the pains they go through to hide from humanity as a whole since we've come a long way from having crossbows and longswords.



** At the final confrontation against the Bene Gesserit, a centuries old order claiming to have the moral high ground even as they ruthlessly manipulate people through multiple generations of eugenics, even referring to anyone they don't consider suitable breeding stock as "animals." When TheChosenOne they've been trying to create actually arrives they're caught quite off guard when he's disgusted by them and refuses to follow their script.
** The Bene Gesserit consider anyone who cannot pass their test of humanness to be an animal. As this test is "the death-alternative test of human awareness" anyone who takes it and fails is a DEAD animal. They don't use it to decide who's suitable breeding stock (Feyd-Rautha was intended to be the mate of the girl who was supposed to be born in Paul's place, and he's no human by their standards), they use it to decide who's suitable to teach any of their skills to. (Since the test is administered only by Reverend Mothers, who have the whole range of skills, that means that anyone giving the test knows PRECISELY what they're putting the subject through and does it anyway. This is only the beginning of what they have done in their quest to produce TheChosenOne.)

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** At the final confrontation against the Bene Gesserit, a centuries old order claiming to have the moral high ground even as they ruthlessly manipulate people through multiple generations of eugenics, even referring to anyone they don't consider suitable breeding stock as "animals." When when TheChosenOne they've been trying to create actually arrives they're caught quite off guard when he's disgusted by them and refuses to follow their script.
** The Bene Gesserit consider anyone who cannot pass their test of humanness to be an animal. As this test is "the death-alternative test of human awareness" anyone who takes it and fails is a DEAD animal. They don't use it to decide who's suitable breeding stock (Feyd-Rautha was intended to be the mate of the girl who was supposed to be born in Paul's place, and he's no human by their standards), they use it to decide who's suitable to teach any of their skills to. (Since the test is administered only by Reverend Mothers, who have the whole range of skills, that means that anyone giving the test knows PRECISELY ''precisely'' what they're putting the subject through and does it anyway. This is only the beginning of what they have done in their quest to produce TheChosenOne.)



* Creator/MercedesLackey's ''[[Literature/TheObsidianTrilogy Obsidian Mountain Trilogy]]'': the elves think they know everything about fighting the endarkened, having done it before. It takes TheChosenOne Kellan to realize that this is all wrong because the endarkened have ''learned'' since then. He has to challenge their general to a duel to the death before they listen. But they do. And a thousand years later, they remember the lesson, and refuse to give the next Chosen One any advice to avoid repeating the mistake.

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* Creator/MercedesLackey's ''[[Literature/TheObsidianTrilogy Obsidian Mountain Trilogy]]'': the The elves think they know everything about fighting the endarkened, having done it before. It takes TheChosenOne Kellan to realize that this is all wrong because the endarkened have ''learned'' since then. He has to challenge their general to a duel to the death before they listen. But they do. And a thousand years later, they remember the lesson, and refuse to give the next Chosen One any advice to avoid repeating the mistake.
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-->'''Id:''' ...What? Verdelet was a dickhead, but I'm with him on the elf racism. Fuck elves. I've seen enough of those downtrodden orcs get butchered for funsies all the time. Where's the [[VideoGame/MiddleEarthShadowOfMordor Shadow of Mordor-esque game where you're an orc assassin making elves' heads explode and punting them down ravines?

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-->'''Id:''' ...What? Verdelet was a dickhead, but I'm with him on the elf racism. Fuck elves. I've seen enough of those downtrodden orcs get butchered for funsies all the time. Where's the [[VideoGame/MiddleEarthShadowOfMordor Shadow of Mordor-esque Mordor]]-esque game where you're an orc assassin making elves' heads explode and punting them down ravines?
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** This is effectively the attitude of the last Númenórean kings, especially [[TheCaligula Ar-Pharazôn the Golden]]. This is coupled with RageAgainstTheHeavens, since his plan for getting what the Elves have, namely immortality, involves invading the home of the Valar, who are effectively the gods of the fantasy world. [[note]]Eru, the supreme god, does not interfere with his creation, and generally lets the Valar do their thing[[/note]] [[CurbStompBattle The war situation developed not quite to his advantage]], and the plan wouldn't have worked anyway even if they somehow ''had'' succeeded in their conquest, but that's what you get when you take advice from [[BigBad Sauron]].

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** This is effectively the attitude of the last Númenórean kings, especially [[TheCaligula Ar-Pharazôn the Golden]]. This is coupled with RageAgainstTheHeavens, since his plan for getting what the Elves have, namely immortality, involves invading the home of the Valar, who are effectively the gods of the fantasy world. [[note]]Eru, the supreme god, does not interfere with his creation, and generally lets the Valar do their thing[[/note]] thing.[[/note]] [[CurbStompBattle The war situation developed not quite to his advantage]], and the plan wouldn't have worked anyway even if they somehow ''had'' succeeded in their conquest, but that's what you get when you take advice from [[BigBad Sauron]].



* Interestingly, while ''Franchise/MassEffect'' provides a quote, the game as a whole averts this. True, some of the aliens are jerks (the face of the Turian Councilor comes to mind, usually accompanied by a strong urge to punch it[[note]]And even he redeems himself in the third game, being the first one to offer support for Earth, and being annoyed at the Salarian Dalaress' FantasticRacism against Krogans[[/note]]), but there are also plenty examples of really nice ones, such as the asari Liara and the quarian Tali (even [[TheSnarkKnight Joker]] and [[FantasticRacism Navigator Pressly]] like [[WrenchWench her]]). Like Kaidan said, the aliens are actually quite human once you know them. Even [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy the krogans]].
** The asari kinda-sorta fit the trope, due to their immense age and wisdom, and are held in very high regard by virtually every other species ([[BoldlyComing for a couple of reasons...]]). As the quote page shows, however, they're not perfect.
** The biggest Screw You, Elves! comments about the asari comes from one of their own: Matriarch Aethyta, aka the bartender at Illium's Eternity lounge. She had great advice, which could have kept [[HumanityIsSuperior humans from becoming the most powerful race in the galaxy]], and they "laughed the blue off [her] ass." So now she serves drinks behind a bar. She's a little bitter.

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* Interestingly, while ''Franchise/MassEffect'' provides a quote, the game as a whole averts this. True, some of the aliens are jerks (the jerks. The face of the Turian Councilor comes to mind, usually accompanied by a strong urge to punch it[[note]]And it,[[note]]And even he redeems himself in the third game, being the first one to offer support for Earth, and being annoyed at the Salarian Dalaress' FantasticRacism against Krogans[[/note]]), Krogans[[/note]] but there are also plenty examples of really nice ones, such as the asari Asari Liara and the quarian Quarian Tali (even [[TheSnarkKnight Joker]] and [[FantasticRacism Navigator Pressly]] like [[WrenchWench her]]). Like Kaidan said, the aliens are actually quite human once you know them. Even [[ProudWarriorRaceGuy the krogans]].
Krogans]].
** The asari Asari kinda-sorta fit the trope, due to their immense age and wisdom, and are held in very high regard by virtually every other species ([[BoldlyComing for a couple of reasons...]]). As the quote page shows, however, they're not perfect.
** The biggest Screw You, Elves! comments about the asari Asari comes from one of their own: Matriarch Aethyta, aka the bartender at Illium's Eternity lounge. She had great advice, which could have kept [[HumanityIsSuperior humans from becoming the most powerful race in the galaxy]], and they "laughed the blue off [her] ass." So now she serves drinks behind a bar. She's a little bitter.
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** There's also a sword that does this to the Blood Elves in the game. To elaborate, there is a rare drop in the Icecrown Citadel instances that starts a long quest chain to reforge an old weapon given to the High Elves by the dragons. At one point you have to take the sword and submerge it in the sunwell, the Blood Elves' power source. After you do so, they assume you are returning the sword to them. Their leader tries to take it off you. Except the sword decides it likes you better and sends him flying. They're furious, even more so if you're a member of the Alliance. It doesn't play out this way if you're a Blood Elf, of course, in which case they're eager to assist you. Then again, one Blood Elf also points this out, pointing out that the leader's "foolish" attempt to seize the sword is to blame for his injuries.

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** There's also a sword that does this to the Blood Elves in the game. To elaborate, there is a rare drop in the Icecrown Citadel instances that starts a long quest chain to reforge an old weapon given to the High Elves by the dragons. At one point you have to take the sword and submerge it in the sunwell, the Blood Elves' power source. After you do so, they assume you are returning the sword to them. Their leader tries to take it off you. Except the sword decides it likes you better and sends him flying. They're furious, even more so if you're a member of the Alliance. It doesn't play out this way if you're a Blood Elf, of course, in which case they're eager to assist you. Then again, one Blood Elf also points this out, pointing out that the leader's "foolish" attempt to seize the sword is to blame for his injuries.
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** Interestingly enough, in ''VideoGame/TalesOfSymphonia'', after Lloyd calls out the elves for their racism towards half-elves giving rise to Cruxis, the elder will, if you talk to him after [[spoiler:the party evacuates Heimdall]], he will admit that perhaps the elves are the most to blame for what happened.
** ''Symphonia'' provides another odd case of this during its WhamEpisode. [[spoiler: [[OurAngelsAreDifferent Lord Remiel]] when he shows his true colors, show the egotism usually associated with this trope and asks Kratos for aid, and Kratos mocks him for being an angel asking for help against humans (technically two humans and two half elves). The line is made odd by Kratos being an angel himself.]]

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** Interestingly enough, in ''VideoGame/TalesOfSymphonia'', after Lloyd calls out the elves for their racism towards half-elves giving rise to Cruxis, the elder will, if you talk to him after [[spoiler:the party evacuates Heimdall]], he will admit that perhaps the elves are the most to blame for what happened.
** ''Symphonia'' provides another odd case of this during its WhamEpisode. [[spoiler: [[OurAngelsAreDifferent Lord Remiel]] when he shows his true colors, show shows the egotism usually associated with this trope and asks Kratos for aid, and Kratos mocks him for being an angel asking for help against humans (technically two humans and two half elves). The line is made odd by Kratos being an angel himself.]]
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* A memorable moment in ''VideoGame/TalesOfPhantasia'' happens somewhat toward the end. The uppity elves have finally agreed to accept humans in their HiddenElfVillage, but not [[HalfHumanHybrid half-elves]], because they still blamed them for the debacle with the Mana Cannon a bit over a century ago[[note]]and, probably, the Cruxis/Desian problem 4,000 years before that[[/note]]. The elves claimed that the halfbreeds could not be trusted, since they possessed the power of elven magic but lacked the elven values to employ it responsibly. Cless then kindly tells them to shove it, as the whole reason halfbreeds had human values was that the elves kicked them out in the first place and they had no choice but to live among humans.

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* A memorable moment in ''VideoGame/TalesOfPhantasia'' happens somewhat toward the end. The uppity elves have finally agreed to accept humans in their HiddenElfVillage, but not [[HalfHumanHybrid half-elves]], because they still blamed them for the debacle with the Mana Cannon a bit over a century ago[[note]]and, ago.[[note]]And, probably, the Cruxis/Desian problem 4,000 years before that[[/note]]. that.[[/note]] The elves claimed that the halfbreeds could not be trusted, since they possessed the power of elven magic but lacked the elven values to employ it responsibly. Cless then kindly tells them to shove it, as the whole reason halfbreeds had human values was that the elves kicked them out in the first place and they had no choice but to live among humans.
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** ''Fanfic/TheMLPLoops'': One early Bureau loop has Twilight doing this to herself--or a version of her, anyway. Looping Twilight finds herself Awakening as a human in a world that is being invaded by Equestria, and she has to watch on international television as [=unAwake=] versions of herself and all her friends argue about how much better ponies are and how the world will be at peace with just a bit of cultural genocide. Human!Twilight and human!Celestia end up getting ''completely'' plastered, and when they wake up they find they stole the Elements of Harmony and banished the entirety of Equestria to the moon.
--->'''Twilight:''' Hey, where'd we get the other Elements from? I can only summon Magic, the others I have to get from the Loop if they're there...\\
'''Celestia:''' I believe we mugged your friends' counterparts for them. ''[winces]'' Wow, Applejack has a mean right hook. I'm going to have a nasty black eye for a while...
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[[folder:Lets's Play]]
* During LetsPlay/TheDarkId's run of ''VideoGame/Drakengard3'', which is a prequel to the series, he for once sees a point with Verdelet.
-->'''Id:''' ...What? Verdelet was a dickhead, but I'm with him on the elf racism. Fuck elves. I've seen enough of those downtrodden orcs get butchered for funsies all the time. Where's the [[VideoGame/MiddleEarthShadowOfMordor Shadow of Mordor-esque game where you're an orc assassin making elves' heads explode and punting them down ravines?
[[/folder]]
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Snark Bait is now Flame Bait,and this is misuse anyway


* A recurring theme in the ''VideoGame/{{Overlord}}'' games. Elves, being one of the "[[DesignatedHero good]]" races serve as {{hero antagonist}}s to your EvilOverlord. They're usually not all that much better than humans, serving mostly as SnarkBait for EvilChancellor Gnarl and are usually screwed over royally throughout the games. The first game has them being enslaved by the Dwarves (with an option to ensure their extinction by choosing to save a sack of gold over the last Elven women) and the second one has most of them being enslaved by TheEmpire, with the remaining free elves all a bunch of annoying hippies and you later commit a MoralEventHorizon towards them by [[spoiler:poisoning the soul of [[TheHighQueen Queen]] [[BigGood Fay]] with your dark power, driving her insane and making her a FallenHero]].

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* A recurring theme in the ''VideoGame/{{Overlord}}'' games. Elves, being one of the "[[DesignatedHero good]]" races serve as {{hero antagonist}}s to your EvilOverlord. They're usually not all that much better than humans, serving mostly as SnarkBait a target of mockery for EvilChancellor Gnarl and are usually screwed over royally throughout the games. The first game has them being enslaved by the Dwarves (with an option to ensure their extinction by choosing to save a sack of gold over the last Elven women) and the second one has most of them being enslaved by TheEmpire, with the remaining free elves all a bunch of annoying hippies and you later commit a MoralEventHorizon towards them by [[spoiler:poisoning the soul of [[TheHighQueen Queen]] [[BigGood Fay]] with your dark power, driving her insane and making her a FallenHero]].
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Dewicking per TRS decision.


* Everyone who isn't an elf thinks this about the elves of ''Series/TheShannaraChronicles''. Rovers[[note]]nomadic bandits[[/note]], in particular, seem to be of the opinion that Elves screwed them first, turning a blind eye to their poverty and homelessness while sitting in their nice comfortable castle (though the guy who expresses this belief is a known ConMan, so maybe take his words with a large amount of salt). All that said, Rover Eretria starts warming up to her traveling companions, Amberle and Wil (an elf princess and an elf/human hybrid, respectively), to the point where, by episode six, she has made romantic passes [[BiTheWay at both of them.]]

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* Everyone who isn't an elf thinks this about the elves of ''Series/TheShannaraChronicles''. Rovers[[note]]nomadic bandits[[/note]], in particular, seem to be of the opinion that Elves screwed them first, turning a blind eye to their poverty and homelessness while sitting in their nice comfortable castle (though the guy who expresses this belief is a known ConMan, so maybe take his words with a large amount of salt). All that said, Rover Eretria starts warming up to her traveling companions, Amberle and Wil (an elf princess and an elf/human hybrid, respectively), to the point where, by episode six, she has made romantic passes [[BiTheWay at both of them.]] them.
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* TheDogBitesBacks: Similiar to the above trope(s) where a supposely "inferior" race fights back.

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* TheDogBitesBacks: TheDogBitesBack: Similiar to the above trope(s) where a supposely "inferior" race fights back.
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* TheDogBitesBacks: Similiar to the above trope(s) where a supposely "inferior" race fights back.
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* Justified and averted in Creator/TerryPratchett's ''Discworld/LordsAndLadies''. The elves cast a glamour to make people think they're wonderful, but if someone [[GlamourFailure breaks through that]] then they're usually downright pissed off. [[ShutUpHannibal Granny Weatherwax at one point tells the Queen of the Elves what she can do with with herself:]]

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* Justified and averted in Creator/TerryPratchett's ''Discworld/LordsAndLadies''.''Literature/LordsAndLadies''. The elves cast a glamour to make people think they're wonderful, but if someone [[GlamourFailure breaks through that]] then they're usually downright pissed off. [[ShutUpHannibal Granny Weatherwax at one point tells the Queen of the Elves what she can do with with herself:]]
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* ''Fanfic/ChildOfTheStorm'' has this several times, sometimes on a very meta level.
** First, the mixed depictions of elves.
*** On the one hand, you have the pleasant, wise, [[DeadpanSnarker and dry-witted]] adviser, Algrim, and the 'Light Elves' of Alfheim, who serve as TheLancer to Asgard and maintain the benevolent High Elf stereotypes.
*** On the other hand, you have the 'Dark Elves' of Svartalfheim, a different tribe/faction of Alfar (the relationship is compared to that of the Aesir and Vanir). They believed that they were a SuperiorSpecies - even to ''[[PhysicalGod Asgardians]]'', and they should be running the Nine Realms. Led by Malekith, wielding the Reality Stone, they put this into practise, first by purging their own people of those who opposed Malekith (the survivors fled to Alfheim and Faerie), then by trying to conquer the rest of the Nine Realms. The result is a resounding Screw You! with all the other realms uniting to beat the crap out of them - though only after the Dark Elves came very close to succeeding, thanks to the Reality Stone (and only failed because of its instability), pounding Svartalfheim into a DeathWorld from orbit. It's notable that they were bad enough that they made ''[[ZeroPercentApprovalRating Bor]]'' look good.
**** Additionally, the Light Elves have their own dirty secrets. [[BigBadEnsemble One of the main antagonists]] of the first book, Gravemoss, is a Light Elf exile who happens to be a [[{{Sadist}} sadistic]] [[CompleteMonster monster]], a {{Necromancer}} (which is what got him banished in the first place) and an OmnicidalManiac, who dreams of ruling over a universe of the dead. And this is ''before'' he gets his hands on the Darkhold. Even his allies (the similarly deranged Doctor Zola aside) find him deeply disturbing, while everyone else's attitude to him is less 'screw you', more 'DIE!'
** [[TheFairFolk The Fae in general - the Sidhe especially - ]] are derived from the ''Literature/DresdenFiles'' version, and it is made abundantly clear that a) they see humanity as beneath them (seriously, even the nice ones), b) a lot of them are absolutely horrifying. In the case of the Winter Court, they're sort of NecessarilyEvil (as in, many of their more predatory, ruthless, and cruel aspects are necessary to be best able to fight at the Outer Gates against {{Eldritch Abomination}}s), but all of them operate on BlueAndOrangeMorality.
** The Wanded Wizarding World gets a repeated kicking as well, for its oblivious arrogance towards the muggle world, attitudes towards muggles that vary from benevolent condescension to a desire for Nazi-like extermination (Lucius Malfoy's attitude is compared to that of a Dalek), and generally being ridiculously far behind the curve. While its positive aspects are also noted and (unusually) Albus Dumbledore is portrayed very positively, the society as a whole is pretty screwed up. The attitude of the heroes is perhaps best summed by Thor (formerly incarnated as James Potter) responding to Fudge's demand for Sirius' return with a short note that quite literally says, "Fuck off and die." [[CaptainObvious He was channelling his James side at that point]].
*** It reaches the point where they don't particularly ''care'' that by the sequel, the blatantly [[SociopathicHero sociopathic]] Director Peter Wisdom of [=MI13=] (who is himself a wizard [[spoiler: (specifically, Regulus Black)]]) is set to supplant the Ministry with his own agency. Or at least, when they do care, it's because of Wisdom himself, rather than the idea in principle. Admittedly, they have bigger problems to deal with, but...
** Actually, in general, the supernatural world (or at least, those parts that refuse to adjust) gets a kicking in favour of MugglePower and {{Magitek}}.
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** This is effectively the attitude of the last Númenórean kings, especially Ar-Pharazôn the Golden. This is coupled with RageAgainstTheHeavens, since his plan for getting what the Elves have, namely immortality, involves invading the home of the Valar, who are effectively the gods of the fantasy world. [[note]]Eru, the supreme god, does not interfere with his creation, and generally lets the Valar do their thing[[/note]] [[CurbStompBattle The war situation developed not quite to his advantage]], and the plan wouldn't have worked anyway even if they somehow ''had'' succeeded in their conquest, but that's what you get when you take advice from [[BigBad Sauron]].

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** This is effectively the attitude of the last Númenórean kings, especially [[TheCaligula Ar-Pharazôn the Golden.Golden]]. This is coupled with RageAgainstTheHeavens, since his plan for getting what the Elves have, namely immortality, involves invading the home of the Valar, who are effectively the gods of the fantasy world. [[note]]Eru, the supreme god, does not interfere with his creation, and generally lets the Valar do their thing[[/note]] [[CurbStompBattle The war situation developed not quite to his advantage]], and the plan wouldn't have worked anyway even if they somehow ''had'' succeeded in their conquest, but that's what you get when you take advice from [[BigBad Sauron]].
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** The Alessian Revolt, later in the 1st Era, was an uprising of Cyrodiil's native human population which had been enslaved and brutally tortured by the Ayleids (Wild Elves). With her freed slave army, the support of the Nordic Empire, several [[TokenHeroicOrc rebel Ayleid lords]], and a few of the ''[[HumansAreSpecial gods themselves]]'', St. Alessia drove the Ayleids into virtual extinction. She would become the founder of the first empire of men in Cyrodiil in the process. Alessia's champion, the [[PhysicalGod divine warrior]] Pelinal Whitestrake, was perhaps the living embodiment of this trope. He was sent by the Divines to answer a prayer from Alessia. Decked out in a full suit of platemail armor (which only the Dwemer could craft at the time), he was a bloodthirsty (specifically Elf blood) [[TheBerserker Berserker]] of the highest order. He first wandered into Alessia's camp [[BloodSplatteredWarrior drenched in Ayleid blood]] and would fly into such {{Berserker Rage}}s that he ''permanently damaged the lands themselves'' while fighting Ayleids. Countless scores of Ayleids fell in his wake, to the point where the Divines had to send in rains to [[PaintTheTownRed cleanse Ayleids forts and villages of Ayleids blood]] before they could be used by Alessia's forces, and he even defeated (but could not kill) the immortal Ayleid leader, Umaril the Unfeathered, before he was cut into pieces by Umaril's servants. (In ''Oblivion'''s ''Knights of the Nine'' expansion, the PlayerCharacter is Pelinal Reborn, seeking to defeat a resurrected and vengence-filled Umaril.)

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** The Alessian Revolt, later in the 1st Era, was an uprising of Cyrodiil's native human population which had been enslaved and brutally tortured by the Ayleids (Wild Elves). With her freed slave army, the support of the Nordic Empire, several [[TokenHeroicOrc rebel Ayleid lords]], and a few of the ''[[HumansAreSpecial gods themselves]]'', St. Alessia drove the Ayleids into virtual extinction. She would become the founder of the first empire of men in Cyrodiil in the process. Alessia's champion, the [[PhysicalGod divine warrior]] Pelinal Whitestrake, was perhaps the living embodiment of this trope. He was sent by the Divines to answer a prayer from Alessia. Decked out in a full suit of platemail armor (which only the Dwemer could craft at the time), time, and everyone else had bronze armor at best), he was a bloodthirsty (specifically Elf blood) [[TheBerserker Berserker]] of the highest order. He first wandered into Alessia's camp [[BloodSplatteredWarrior drenched in Ayleid blood]] and would fly into such {{Berserker Rage}}s that he ''permanently damaged the lands themselves'' while fighting Ayleids. Countless scores of Ayleids fell in his wake, to the point where the Divines had to send in rains to [[PaintTheTownRed cleanse Ayleids forts and villages of Ayleids blood]] before they could be used by Alessia's forces, and he even defeated (but could not kill) the immortal Ayleid leader, Umaril the Unfeathered, before he was cut into pieces by Umaril's servants. (In ''Oblivion'''s ''Knights of the Nine'' expansion, the PlayerCharacter is Pelinal Reborn, seeking to defeat a resurrected and vengence-filled Umaril.)

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